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Holy crap. This doesn't look good:
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/indie-developers-report-steam-refund-abuse-from-pc-gamers-show-graphs-to-back-their-claims/
Yes, what I imagine is people having 1~2 hours to kill, so they dl a lighweight game, play it, and then get their refund.

Now I am curious : can someone explain to me if you can get a refund on a game you didn't like, then 2 months later you buy it again .... and then you realize 'shit ! That was this game I didn't like' and refund it again. While my example is legit, I am sure you all see the harm in that (I know you are good people, but make an effort ;-)
Post edited June 08, 2015 by Potzato
Perhaps people were genuinely thinking it's a bad game? Indie games have a really bad habit of getting praised by a cult following of people. Then others, who aren't so inclined to play indie games, try out those games and then realize they didn't like the game or that the game they played was vastly different than the reviews lead on because those doing the reviews have rose tinted glasses on.

There's an old saying in business. If you make a good product, people will buy it. It's really that simple. If you are making good game, not just games 1 in 10,000 people will find good, then your game will sell and stay sold. If you make games that are niche, expect a LOT of people to buy it, try it, and refund it because it's not part of their niche.
Valve could implement a little addendum "unless you already finished the game completely" ;)

But seriously I don't know any decent game with less than 2 hours gameplay (Minesweeper maybe). Steam did good and should have implemented this earlier right before Bethesda initiated commercial DLCs for Skyrim. This will prevent bad developers from expoiting Pre-Alpha Early Access trap for naive people.

The OP mentioned something about not beleiving in good will of buyers to pay money for decent game. Oh come on. I can easily download whole GOG catalog and play for free. Will I do that? No. It is because of my laziness? Again no. The same reason many users who pirated software for different reasons (no money, no respect, no choice) bought decent applications soon after they met positive changes in life works everywhere. And OP wants what exactly? To restrict professional speedrunners from having their fun? ;))
I wonder how many of them actually finished the damn game. Could it be they applied for a refund just after 30 minutes or so?
I know from my experience that good service providers will always find grateful clients. MAybe it's just you know KARMA!
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jamyskis: You might be looking for that experience, but statistically, it's not a genre that many actively seek out. It's actually logical that you developed those specific games because you like that genre (conversely, I'm a fan of retro-styled platformers, which is what I'm developing right now, albeit at a snail's pace), but it is still a remarkably niche type of game.

Even the highly-publicised, highish-budget Vanishing of Ethan Carter struggled to get past 60,000 sales in its first month, and that had a passing wind in the form of media coverage and very strong visuals. Short, narrative-focused 'experiences' are not the sort of thing you should be developing to make a living on. The fact that you have succeeded is a miracle in its own right. That's not to denigrate (or praise) the quality of your work. It's a simple fact that you've been lucky in doing something that very few others manage.

And you should bear in mind that very few gamers are fixated on singular genres. Many may only buy games with very low prices, others still may only buy AAA games, but even the one-track CoD mind will vary into other territories such as racing or football.
Of course most gamers aren't just fixated on one genre, but my point is that it doesn't matter whether Super Meat Boy provides more hours of playtime than The Moon Sliver... it doesn't provide the same experience, so the value proposition doesn't matter. If you want something like The Moon Sliver, buying Super Meat Boy won't provide that.

And even if there isn't a huge market for them (which I don't agree with, but that's a different discussion), I don't think it actually matters that much from a business perspective. Since the lifetime of a story-focused game is so short, fans of those games don't get over-saturated with similar titles. Consider DOTAs and MMOs. In the past, it was impossible for any MMO to make any money, because MMO fans were all too busy with World fo Warcraft. Similarly, the current DOTA scene is basically dominated by only 3 games, and lesser titles have very little chance of survival. I'm sure a lot of you have passed up lesser-known RPGs because you're time is taken up with The Witcher 3 or Dragon Age Inquisition. I know I've certainly done that with other genres. That's not something you have to worry about with narrative-focused games, because being short and so focused on their individual stories, fans don't have to pick one over the other. If their wallet permits (and of course, therein lies the rub), they can easily purchase most of the ones that release and have time to play them all.

What's more, while "walking simulators" may not be as popular as retro platformers, the genre is also far FAR less saturated. Name the quality "walking simulators." Most people will only come up with Dear Esther and Gone Home, maybe The Vanishing of Ethan Carter and Proteus, maybe Only If and Mind. And frankly there aren't that many others of note. Now, name all the quality retro platformers. Yeah, there are a lot. And many times more if we broaden to just "platformers" in general. I wish you luck trying to compete in that market, because it's going to take a lot of hard work.

I mean, at the end of the day it doesn't matter, because I'm just making the games I want to see being made, and whether other numbers reflect it or not, I've been able to do fairly well up to this point. What's more, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm not so much married to a genre as to a philosophy: trying to tell stories through interactivity. And I think that philosophy has quite a broad appeal.
How does the refund policy affect games with trading cards? If someone buys a cheap game to harvest the cards and then gets a refund, does Steam take back what they've made from the trading cards, and/or remove unsold trading cards from their inventory?

It might be a decent deterrent if they said "okay you've made $1 off of trading cards from this game, so we're removing $1 from the refund" or something like that. At the very least that might stop the card harvesters.
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NoNewTaleToTell: How does the refund policy affect games with trading cards? If someone buys a cheap game to harvest the cards and then gets a refund, does Steam take back what they've made from the trading cards, and/or remove unsold trading cards from their inventory?

It might be a decent deterrent if they said "okay you've made $1 off of trading cards from this game, so we're removing $1 from the refund" or something like that. At the very least that might stop the card harvesters.
I'm not actually sure. They haven't mentioned anything about it in their announcements.
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Cadaver747: But seriously I don't know any decent game with less than 2 hours gameplay (Minesweeper maybe).
It's time to warm up your MAME emulator I think.... ;)
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/pulirula/pulirula.htm
(finished in 30min on my first try)
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NoNewTaleToTell: How does the refund policy affect games with trading cards? If someone buys a cheap game to harvest the cards and then gets a refund, does Steam take back what they've made from the trading cards, and/or remove unsold trading cards from their inventory?

It might be a decent deterrent if they said "okay you've made $1 off of trading cards from this game, so we're removing $1 from the refund" or something like that. At the very least that might stop the card harvesters.
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jefequeso: I'm not actually sure. They haven't mentioned anything about it in their announcements.
That would be something to ask them. If Steam doesn't take trading cards into consideration then people could actually earn a profit off of the new refund system via trading cards. I would message Steam over it, if you've got a live person you can talk to about it.
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jefequeso: I'm not actually sure. They haven't mentioned anything about it in their announcements.
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NoNewTaleToTell: That would be something to ask them. If Steam doesn't take trading cards into consideration then people could actually earn a profit off of the new refund system via trading cards. I would message Steam over it, if you've got a live person you can talk to about it.
I asked on the Steamworks forums. That should get me an answer from someone.
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NoNewTaleToTell: How does the refund policy affect games with trading cards? If someone buys a cheap game to harvest the cards and then gets a refund, does Steam take back what they've made from the trading cards, and/or remove unsold trading cards from their inventory?

It might be a decent deterrent if they said "okay you've made $1 off of trading cards from this game, so we're removing $1 from the refund" or something like that. At the very least that might stop the card harvesters.
You can't earn all the card in under 2 hours for a game. Or you shouldn't be able to. Most games, to earn all the drops, take at least 10+ hours.
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catpower1980: It's time to warm up your MAME emulator I think.... ;)
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/pulirula/pulirula.htm
(finished in 30min on my first try)
Err thanks I guess. Not my cup of cofee, I'm too sober for this stuff ;)
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catpower1980: It's time to warm up your MAME emulator I think.... ;)
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/pulirula/pulirula.htm
(finished in 30min on my first try)
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Cadaver747: Err thanks I guess. Not my cup of cofee, I'm too sober for this stuff ;)
Sounds like something I'd say. :p
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NoNewTaleToTell: How does the refund policy affect games with trading cards? If someone buys a cheap game to harvest the cards and then gets a refund, does Steam take back what they've made from the trading cards, and/or remove unsold trading cards from their inventory?

It might be a decent deterrent if they said "okay you've made $1 off of trading cards from this game, so we're removing $1 from the refund" or something like that. At the very least that might stop the card harvesters.
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Retsopmi: You can't earn all the card in under 2 hours for a game. Or you shouldn't be able to. Most games, to earn all the drops, take at least 10+ hours.
It depends on the game. The developer has control over how often they drop.
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Retsopmi: You can't earn all the card in under 2 hours for a game. Or you shouldn't be able to. Most games, to earn all the drops, take at least 10+ hours.
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jefequeso: It depends on the game. The developer has control over how often they drop.
Well out of 400+ games on my accounts with steam cards, I've never gotten all my drops in under 10 hours. Also if it is set by the devs, then I guess smart devs will set the base threshhold to 2 hours.