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General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 08, 2015
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itchy01ca01: Sorry dude. The rights of the consumers must trump the rights of the developers. You shouldn't be in it for the money. If you really cared about making games, and making good ones, you wouldn't care about how much they are going for OR worried about refunds. This tells me you are a weak-willed individual, who can't stand behind his games.
Either they are good, and people will play and talk about them, or they are bad, and you don't deserve the money you already have.
This is NOT a popular opinion, nor should it be. There are people who should make money on games, but at the expense of the consumer and his/her time? No.
I make games because I love making games. Several years ago I was working a lousy minimum wage job at a car wash, struggling to make enough money to pay the monthly bills, spending all my free time programming at the expense of both my social life and my personal health. It's only recently that I've been able to move to full time game development, and it's a dream come true.

This is my job now. Of course I'm worried about making money, because like the rest of you I like having food and shelter. I don't think it's unresonable to want to have those things, and I don't think it's unresonable to want to keep making a living doing the thing I love.

And I've developed, published, and marketed three successful (by my standards at least) indie games, all on my own. And dealt with all the shit all on my own as well. Weak-willed or not, I've been able to make it this far.
Posted June 08, 2015
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pimpmonkey2382.313: Do those side projects for free also, and go tell your employer you feel bad for actually working for money and that you shouldn't be paid for it.
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itchy01ca01: Again, I have on occasion :) And yet, I still survive. Poor developers. Oh poor poor developers. I weep for thee.
Occasionally isn't enough, you should probably make it a permanent thing.
Posted June 08, 2015
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AnotherAvatar: Maybe you should consider making more substantial games that actually give users a reason to own it for more than two hours.

I have absolutely no sympathy for you, this is a genuine 'git gud' issue.
dat is sum buuulllsheeeyit.

$2 or $3 to an indie developer who brought something fresh for a couple of hours isn't so bad.

nobody's forcing people to buy it in the first place. op is not just talking out of his ass.
Posted June 08, 2015
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Fenixp: Don't argue with him, not worth it.
Yeah, a lot of dickweeds showing up all of a sudden.
Posted June 08, 2015
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itchy01ca01: Again, I have on occasion :) And yet, I still survive. Poor developers. Oh poor poor developers. I weep for thee.
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pimpmonkey2382.313: Occasionally isn't enough, you should probably make it a permanent thing.
Actually that could work. There are enough scholarships, tax-exemptions, tax loopholes and shady cross-marketing deals that I could probably be a developer and not need to make any money. Even do my job for nothing ;)
Posted June 08, 2015
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itchy01ca01: I do have people that depend on my income.
Cool. And you have no idea why could someone be worried. We're talking worried here - Jefe has been absolutely polite about this, only voicing that he is worried - no rants, no outbursts of rage, worried. Have you ever been worried about losing your job? Or about anything in your life, for that matter? Did a bunch of idiots jump you, telling you that if you're worried you don't deserve it?

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itchy01ca01: I do NOT work in the entertainment industry, obviously. I know my "art" won't please anyone. And even when I do make something, i don't sell it. I give that piece away, because I know that Im not a person that could make money off of it, even if I wanted to. Making games USED to be an art form. Now it's all about money, and game quality over the years has suffered, TREMENDOUSLY.
You need to use more caps.

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itchy01ca01: That is an opinion. And yes, gaming is a huge business. Fortunately, im not one to be pulled into hype. The crappiest games always seem to be the most expensive.
It's actually called production values. A ton of fantastic games were made while having huge ones and being created for money. Actually, a lot of the best art had been made for money in general. Creating something for money doesn't mean you're not putting passion and creativity into it, it just means that you want to eat other things than breadcrumbs.

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itchy01ca01: There are MODS better than the games that get put out these days, and THEY don't make ANY money.
Of course there are some mods which are better than some games which are and always were done. That's not really a statement of anythig in particular.

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itchy01ca01: Why are we expecting games like these to get money?
Yes, I understand the cost of making games,
and yes, I made the argument about no money as a catalyst.
I don't actually think that game makes should make NO money, just that they shouldn't be making AS much money as they think they should.
Cool, so... Ummm... Look, it works like this: A content creator creates content. Then he asks for money for that content. And then it's up to people whether or not they're willing to pay money for that content. Places like GOG or Steam make such transactions possible, and easy. So... What is wrong here, exactly?

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itchy01ca01: You're making art. Most artists do NOT make much money. Only the VERY BEST 10-20, out of millions, even made a name for themselves. What does this tell us about the game industry?
Uh... That it's got better distribution methods?
Post edited June 08, 2015 by Fenixp
Posted June 08, 2015
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AnotherAvatar: Maybe you should consider making more substantial games that actually give users a reason to own it for more than two hours.

I have absolutely no sympathy for you, this is a genuine 'git gud' issue.
Because game length = quality.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by jefequeso
Posted June 08, 2015
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pimpmonkey2382.313: Occasionally isn't enough, you should probably make it a permanent thing.
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itchy01ca01: Actually that could work. There are enough scholarships, tax-exemptions, tax loopholes and shady cross-marketing deals that I could probably be a developer and not need to make any money. Even do my job for nothing ;)
Yeah don't make money doing anything. As it's bad, and how dare someone ask for 2 bucks for a game. I hope your library here is completely empty also.
Posted June 08, 2015
music machine is $6. still not too bad. again, nobody is forcing anyone to buy it. and there is a certain honour element to this.
Posted June 08, 2015
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LesterKnight99: Hey. Stop.

Think about this: if you were a developer, and independent, and somebody refunded your work which you put many weeks, months, or even years into, would you be so quick to be sarcastic? would you laugh it off?
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itchy01ca01: I wouldn't be a developers. If anything, I have worked on mods and other games FOR FREE. I don't expect money for my effort. Hell, I volunteer my time at various venues, helping the homeless, sick kids etc. I don't expect to be paid. I don't expect anything from them. I do it because I enjoy it.
I enjoy helping people. Why can't developers be the same way?
Because some people (god forbid!) dare to want to turn their passion into their career, instead of keeping it a hobby. How dare artist want to make money from their art, the greedy bastards!

So will you give up ALL forms of revenue that you receive? Because that would only be fair, after all if you really loved your job (and hobbies and anything that would provide money) you would do it for free. If you're doing your job just to make money...well...you're just a sellout, maaannnn.

Edit: Also... "the man"?

You mean tiny indie devs who code in their living room, and musicians recording in their garage? Bwahaha...
Post edited June 08, 2015 by NoNewTaleToTell
Posted June 08, 2015
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AnotherAvatar: Maybe you should consider making more substantial games that actually give users a reason to own it for more than two hours.

I have absolutely no sympathy for you, this is a genuine 'git gud' issue.
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jefequeso: Because game length = quality.
"Buy now and get 25% off the 56-hour-long DLC, now with daytime, nightime, AND lunchtime cycles!"
Posted June 08, 2015
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itchy01ca01: I do have people that depend on my income.
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Fenixp: Cool. And you have no idea why could someone be worried. We're talking worried here - Jefe has been absolutely polite about this, only voicing that he is worried - no rants, no outbursts of rage, worried. Have you ever been worried about losing your job? Or about anything in your life, for that matter? Did a bunch of idiots jump you, telling you that if you're worried you don't deserve it?

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itchy01ca01: I do NOT work in the entertainment industry, obviously. I know my "art" won't please anyone. And even when I do make something, i don't sell it. I give that piece away, because I know that Im not a person that could make money off of it, even if I wanted to. Making games USED to be an art form. Now it's all about money, and game quality over the years has suffered, TREMENDOUSLY.
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Fenixp: You need to use more caps.

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itchy01ca01: That is an opinion. And yes, gaming is a huge business. Fortunately, im not one to be pulled into hype. The crappiest games always seem to be the most expensive.
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Fenixp: It's actually called production values. A ton of fantastic games were made while having huge ones and being created for money. Actually, a lot of the best art had been made for money in general. Creating something for money doesn't mean you're not putting passion and creativity into it, it just means that you want to eat other things than breadcrumbs.

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itchy01ca01: There are MODS better than the games that get put out these days, and THEY don't make ANY money.
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Fenixp: Of course there are some mods which are better than some games which are and always were done. That's not really a statement of anythig in particular.

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itchy01ca01: Why are we expecting games like these to get money?
Yes, I understand the cost of making games,
and yes, I made the argument about no money as a catalyst.
I don't actually think that game makes should make NO money, just that they shouldn't be making AS much money as they think they should.
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Fenixp: Cool, so... Ummm... Look, it works like this: A content creator creates content. Then he asks for money for that content. And then it's up to people whether or not they're willing to pay money for that content. Places like GOG or Steam make such transactions possible, and easy. So... What is wrong here, exactly?

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itchy01ca01: You're making art. Most artists do NOT make much money. Only the VERY BEST 10-20, out of millions, even made a name for themselves. What does this tell us about the game industry?
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Fenixp: Uh... That it's got better distribution methods?
Sorry for the caps, but when a developer mentions something like this, it usually means something else is wrong. I could be very wrong myself, but from experience, mentioning you are worried about something usually means that something could go wrong in your future. Steam is doing something that needed to be done. Hell, they didn't even go as far as gog did. Gog offers full refunds. Period.
Steam has caveats.
Personally, and this is my opinion, stupid as it may be, but I wouldn't be worried about a refund if I knew my game was good.
Posted June 08, 2015
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johnnygoging: music machine is $6. still not too bad. again, nobody is forcing anyone to buy it. and there is a certain honour element to this.
I really, honestly, try to price things fairly. And be as open as possible about what the game is in the description. I don't get why some people here are complaining about them being "walking simulators." Heck, on The Music Machine's store page I use the phrase "narrative-focused" at least 50 dozen times, and say it's like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. I' pretty open about what it is.
Posted June 08, 2015
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pimpmonkey2382.313: What's with all of these dickheads lately?
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itchy01ca01: Tired of the man taking our hard earned money?
Can I ask you something? What music do you listen? What artists?
Posted June 08, 2015
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itchy01ca01: Tired of the man taking our hard earned money?
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OlivawR: Can I ask you something? What music do you listen? What artists?
Mozart. Bach. That stuff.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)