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General discussionSteam drops Windows 7 support in January 2024(169 posts)(169 posts)
(169 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 31, 2023
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JakobFel: Looks like I'll have to migrate my old laptop to Linux (aiming for Zorin OS) sooner rather than later. It currently runs on Windows 8 (not 8.1) and has plenty of issues, so I was gonna have to make the switch either way, but I was hoping I could at least wait until I could afford to switch out the mechanical drive for an SSD so I don't have to install twice. Oh well. I've been meaning to do a dive into Linux systems anyways, since I'm hoping that by the time Microsoft drops Windows 10, maybe GOG Galaxy and most of my other games and software will run on Linux.
I'll be straight with you here, as a Linux exclusive user (since 2003!).

Don't hold out for GOG Galaxy on Linux. By all accounts GOG has no intention of supporting it. The only online store actively supporting Linux at this point in time is Steam.

With that said, that's not intended as a "don't go the linux way, and support steam" message. But rather as a manage your expectations.

The games themselves will probably work fine. But GOG Galaxy, every time I've tried it.. it's been a poor experience. Though I do find it ironic, how a DRM free store wants to tie themselves to a specific platform, in my opinion as a DRM free store you'd aim for all platforms, to you know, be free from all ties. But that's a whole other topic.

You're really better off using a third party game manager over GOG Galaxy in any case on Linux.

Also, be sure to check a broad range of Linux distributions, from POP OS, to Ubuntu to Fedora or even OpenSUSE, it really can be subjective as to which is best for a particular user. That's a good thing though, that's freedom of choice. (Unlike Windows!) You don't have to settle on the first one, explore a bit.
Posted March 31, 2023
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JakobFel: Looks like I'll have to migrate my old laptop to Linux (aiming for Zorin OS) sooner rather than later. It currently runs on Windows 8 (not 8.1) and has plenty of issues, so I was gonna have to make the switch either way, but I was hoping I could at least wait until I could afford to switch out the mechanical drive for an SSD so I don't have to install twice. Oh well. I've been meaning to do a dive into Linux systems anyways, since I'm hoping that by the time Microsoft drops Windows 10, maybe GOG Galaxy and most of my other games and software will run on Linux.
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SitcomAntibody: I'll be straight with you here, as a Linux exclusive user (since 2003!).

Don't hold out for GOG Galaxy on Linux. By all accounts GOG has no intention of supporting it. The only online store actively supporting Linux at this point in time is Steam.

With that said, that's not intended as a "don't go the linux way, and support steam" message. But rather as a manage your expectations.

The games themselves will probably work fine. But GOG Galaxy, every time I've tried it.. it's been a poor experience. Though I do find it ironic, how a DRM free store wants to tie themselves to a specific platform, in my opinion as a DRM free store you'd aim for all platforms, to you know, be free from all ties. But that's a whole other topic.

You're really better off using a third party game manager over GOG Galaxy in any case on Linux.

Also, be sure to check a broad range of Linux distributions, from POP OS, to Ubuntu to Fedora or even OpenSUSE, it really can be subjective as to which is best for a particular user. That's a good thing though, that's freedom of choice. (Unlike Windows!) You don't have to settle on the first one, explore a bit.
That is definitely my concern. Galaxy is my gaming HQ for everything these days and while I know there are clients like Playnite with similar functionality, I don't really want to have to move to a different one after I've been using Galaxy for so long. I really don't want to have to use Windows 11 or Windows 12 either, as I already had enough issues with 10 and there's also the major privacy concerns as well. If I had the cash, I'd just build myself a secondary PC for anything that needs Windows but yeah, I don't really have that cash right now and the hardware in my previous PC is too old to properly run modern Windows anyway. Plus, the GPU is a GTX 980 and I don't think it'll be long before Nvidia drops the 900 series from driver updates.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the input and advice! The main reason I'm aiming for Mint or Pop is because I've heard both are really solid for Linux newcomers and Linux gamers. Before I make that switch, I'll likely disable secure boot and flash a few distros to a USB drive to test them out. I tried doing so with VMs but had no luck, not sure why they never seemed to work.
Posted March 31, 2023
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SitcomAntibody: I'll be straight with you here, as a Linux exclusive user (since 2003!).

Don't hold out for GOG Galaxy on Linux. By all accounts GOG has no intention of supporting it. The only online store actively supporting Linux at this point in time is Steam.

With that said, that's not intended as a "don't go the linux way, and support steam" message. But rather as a manage your expectations.

The games themselves will probably work fine. But GOG Galaxy, every time I've tried it.. it's been a poor experience. Though I do find it ironic, how a DRM free store wants to tie themselves to a specific platform, in my opinion as a DRM free store you'd aim for all platforms, to you know, be free from all ties. But that's a whole other topic.

You're really better off using a third party game manager over GOG Galaxy in any case on Linux.

Also, be sure to check a broad range of Linux distributions, from POP OS, to Ubuntu to Fedora or even OpenSUSE, it really can be subjective as to which is best for a particular user. That's a good thing though, that's freedom of choice. (Unlike Windows!) You don't have to settle on the first one, explore a bit.
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JakobFel: That is definitely my concern. Galaxy is my gaming HQ for everything these days and while I know there are clients like Playnite with similar functionality, I don't really want to have to move to a different one after I've been using Galaxy for so long. I really don't want to have to use Windows 11 or Windows 12 either, as I already had enough issues with 10 and there's also the major privacy concerns as well. If I had the cash, I'd just build myself a secondary PC for anything that needs Windows but yeah, I don't really have that cash right now and the hardware in my previous PC is too old to properly run modern Windows anyway. Plus, the GPU is a GTX 980 and I don't think it'll be long before Nvidia drops the 900 series from driver updates.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the input and advice! The main reason I'm aiming for Mint or Pop is because I've heard both are really solid for Linux newcomers and Linux gamers. Before I make that switch, I'll likely disable secure boot and flash a few distros to a USB drive to test them out. I tried doing so with VMs but had no luck, not sure why they never seemed to work.
If it makes things easier, almost all (popular) Linux distributions support secure boot out the box. So that's not a limitation per say, nor something you need concern yourself with.

You might have to give up GOG galaxy in some cases, but you won't have to give up most games.

So think of this way:

You can either be tied to Microsoft (Windows), and GOG (Galaxy) and their decisions to what you will do next.

Or you can break those bounds, and be tied to neither of them. It's your choice.
Posted March 31, 2023
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JakobFel: That is definitely my concern. Galaxy is my gaming HQ for everything these days and while I know there are clients like Playnite with similar functionality, I don't really want to have to move to a different one after I've been using Galaxy for so long. I really don't want to have to use Windows 11 or Windows 12 either, as I already had enough issues with 10 and there's also the major privacy concerns as well. If I had the cash, I'd just build myself a secondary PC for anything that needs Windows but yeah, I don't really have that cash right now and the hardware in my previous PC is too old to properly run modern Windows anyway. Plus, the GPU is a GTX 980 and I don't think it'll be long before Nvidia drops the 900 series from driver updates.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the input and advice! The main reason I'm aiming for Mint or Pop is because I've heard both are really solid for Linux newcomers and Linux gamers. Before I make that switch, I'll likely disable secure boot and flash a few distros to a USB drive to test them out. I tried doing so with VMs but had no luck, not sure why they never seemed to work.
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SitcomAntibody: If it makes things easier, almost all (popular) Linux distributions support secure boot out the box. So that's not a limitation per say, nor something you need concern yourself with.

You might have to give up GOG galaxy in some cases, but you won't have to give up most games.

So think of this way:

You can either be tied to Microsoft (Windows), and GOG (Galaxy) and their decisions to what you will do next.

Or you can break those bounds, and be tied to neither of them. It's your choice.
That's fair, I may start trying to work myself toward using an app like Playnite just to wean myself off of Galaxy if it gets to that point. The only remaining issue at that point is the lack of automatic updates (which I need, I don't want to have to manually do it for every game) and the fact that multiplayer for some GOG games requires Galaxy to work properly.

EDIT: Another concern is some online games. While I play FAR fewer online games these days, I do know that some have anti-cheat that just does not work for Linux. Honestly, I may have to break down and run a dual boot setup so I can still use Windows for cases like that, with Linux for everything else... but the problem would be figuring out the right partition sizes, since I have a limited amount of drives I can add to my system.
Post edited March 31, 2023 by JakobFel
Posted March 31, 2023
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SitcomAntibody: If it makes things easier, almost all (popular) Linux distributions support secure boot out the box. So that's not a limitation per say, nor something you need concern yourself with.

You might have to give up GOG galaxy in some cases, but you won't have to give up most games.

So think of this way:

You can either be tied to Microsoft (Windows), and GOG (Galaxy) and their decisions to what you will do next.

Or you can break those bounds, and be tied to neither of them. It's your choice.
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JakobFel: That's fair, I may start trying to work myself toward using an app like Playnite just to wean myself off of Galaxy if it gets to that point. The only remaining issue at that point is the lack of automatic updates (which I need, I don't want to have to manually do it for every game) and the fact that multiplayer for some GOG games requires Galaxy to work properly.
My experience aside, GOG galaxy "works" for those that like it on Linux (regardless of distro). I just feel the experience is not up to par of what you would expect and in my opinion GOG should do more to make it better. Just be warned it will not work "perfectly" or as it does on Windows. Just being honest here.

My main gripe with GOG is, as a platform that aims to please those that want either legacy games or games without DRM, it just seems so ironic or even hypocritical (depending on your viewpoint) to require a specific operating system for those games, where those games could easily run outside of said operating system.

I love the idea of DRM free games, games that don't require internet, or games that I can keep forever? Hell yeah, give me that. But a company that refuses to see the simple light of Linux and the freedom for them it could provide? oh boy does it makes me question them....

But I'm yet another drunken pirate, so what do I know lol.
Posted March 31, 2023
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Trooper1270: According to Microsoft support for Windows 10 officially stops on Oct 14, 2025.
Yes, thank you. I should have checked it by myself. So I guess Steam would stop support for W10 around year 2027.
According to Witcher views of "the lesser evil" W10 seems like a nice option.
Posted March 31, 2023
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AWG43: Right now I am learning and try to figure out if it's possible to install this SteamOS as a second operation system and make it possible to switch between this and the first one.
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Dark_art_: Yes, it is.

HOLO ISO is pretty much the SteamOS with better hardware support and easier intallation. Not all hardware is supported and last time I've tried, nVidia was a no go.

With that said, I don't see Microsoft breaking compatibility any time soon and even if older games stop run on Windows 11, I'm sure there will be some sort of workaround, even a VM with a older Windows version.

The bigger issue is stated on earlier posts, will GOG's offline installers break compatiblity as well?
That;s good to know. Thank you.

As for compatibility: there was some updates in the past that prevented people from launching the offline installers on Windows 10, if I remember correctly. So for Microsoft it's only a question of implementation of some important updates for newer operation systems to make these installers obsolete. It's a sad truth, but guys from Microsoft don't want you to have a control over digital products.
Posted March 31, 2023
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AWG43: SteamOS might be one of the better solutions for the Steam client since Microsoft and all other corpos will drop the support for Windows 10 in a near future anyway.

Right now I am learning and try to figure out if it's possible to install this SteamOS as a second operation system and make it possible to switch between this and the first one.

I am not a big fan of telemetry and forcing updates so I don't consider Windows 10 as a better solution in this regard. Though the better comparability with Windows games is somehow tempting.
I agree, SteamOS as a Linux-based OS with the sole purpose of playing games from Steam store sounds good on paper. Unfortunately for me I wasn't persuaded of its effectiveness through the past years. There is a hope that it will change sooner rather than later with the help of Vulkan (to counter DirectX) and surprising popularity of Steam Deck.
So yes, in a long run I beleive (I want to beleive) that either SteamOS or some other iteration of Linux OS would take a bigger role in gaming.

As for the booting 2 different OS for me personally the best solution is to have 2 HDDs/SDDs for each OS and change the boot order from the BIOS whenever needed. For instance I would install W10 on a separate SDD and keep my trusty W7 HDD with lots of stuff till true death.

Last time I heard community managed to kill all the major telemetry out of W10. I installed in only once and with the tips from the internet managed to change quite the amount of telemety things in settings. So perhaps it would be enough for you as well. Plus there are some 3rd party workarounds and scripts but I was too paranoid to try those.
Posted March 31, 2023
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JakobFel: That's fair, I may start trying to work myself toward using an app like Playnite just to wean myself off of Galaxy if it gets to that point. The only remaining issue at that point is the lack of automatic updates (which I need, I don't want to have to manually do it for every game) and the fact that multiplayer for some GOG games requires Galaxy to work properly.
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SitcomAntibody: My experience aside, GOG galaxy "works" for those that like it on Linux (regardless of distro). I just feel the experience is not up to par of what you would expect and in my opinion GOG should do more to make it better. Just be warned it will not work "perfectly" or as it does on Windows. Just being honest here.

My main gripe with GOG is, as a platform that aims to please those that want either legacy games or games without DRM, it just seems so ironic or even hypocritical (depending on your viewpoint) to require a specific operating system for those games, where those games could easily run outside of said operating system.

I love the idea of DRM free games, games that don't require internet, or games that I can keep forever? Hell yeah, give me that. But a company that refuses to see the simple light of Linux and the freedom for them it could provide? oh boy does it makes me question them....

But I'm yet another drunken pirate, so what do I know lol.
Ah gotcha. So if I needed to, I could still use Galaxy for some stuff, just with the expectation that it won't run well? It already doesn't run super well and it ran even worse on 7 back before I built this system, so I doubt it'd be too much of a concern overall lol. But yeah, I agree with what you're saying re: the DRM-free thing. I understand Windows is their largest market share by far, but opening things up for Linux users can't be that difficult and would only help things in the long run.
Posted March 31, 2023
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Yesterday's news seems relevant for this thread:-

https://www.techspot.com/news/98123-windows-12-different-modular-monster-faster-updates-ai.html

"Windows 12 is all but confirmed at this point, with several hints about what we can expect from the next major Microsoft release. There are also rumors of a version of CorePC / Windows 12 that will be devoid of legacy features and optimized for upcoming silicon from Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Qualcomm, with a huge focus on AI-based features that sound a lot like a supercharged Clippy following you around the OS with contextual suggestions."

Translation - Some lighter weight versions of W12 are planning on removing Win32 API support altogether (all your 32/64 bit games will stop working). Only "Modern (UWP) Apps" (ie, MS Store 'apps') will work on these versions. But don't worry, we made up for taking away the ability to play lightweight GOG games on your $1,000 Surface Pro tablet by adding back Clippy from Office '95 that will assist you by spamming adverts for OneDrive / Office 365 subscriptions every 15mins...

"For devices that require compatibility with legacy apps, Windows 12 will reportedly have a compatibility layer dubbed "Neon" to help ease users into transitioning to the new OS"

Translation - The "fuller" desktop versions of W12 look like they will run existing Win32 API games but only via some new "compatibility layer" that's significantly more likely to cause compatibility / performance issues in games vs native. Think of it like needing WINE to get Windows (1995-2023) games to run on W12...

"A more modular OS with components that will live on several different partitions is also rumored. Windows 12 will supposedly be separated into "states" that live on different partitions on the storage drive."

Translation - We plan to make the Windows partition read-only to users, so all those debloating tools will be blocked. We may also lock out modding for games and / or kill off all old games via making signed apps compulsory. Finally, "modular" means "pay-per-feature". Want Group Policy Editor? Pay more. DirectStorage? Pay more. DirectX13? Pay more. "Legacy support"? Pay more. They may even be subscription based instead of one-off purchases...

"The plan is to debut the concept with Windows 12 sometime in 2024"

Translation - Given that W10 is supported until 2025 (consumer) / 2032 (LTSC IoT), it's virtually an open admission that W11 is already dead in the water as any "successor" to W10. Expect a repeat of W7/8 where support for the newer Windows get killed off at the same time as the old one.

^ It remains to be seen exactly how "all your existing games will function only via some 'Neon compatibility layer'" will work in practise. Personally I'm predicting GOG's support team are going to be "rather busy" dealing with "WINE for Windows in an emulated read-only sandbox" (aka 'Neon') issues...
Post edited March 31, 2023 by AB2012
Posted March 31, 2023
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neumi5694: The special case we have with Steam here is that the games written for Windows 7 would still work, but they won't if the Steam client won't.
And that makes me a happy GOG customer.
Indeed. Can't wait for the shitstorm that is bound to happen when they do this with Win 10 in a couple of years. Might finally wake some people up, that the plug can be pulled on their games whenever Steam feels like it.

Win 11 is genuinely shit-tier and if the rumors about 12 in the post above are true, I would assume Win 10 will be the final Windows stop for a lot of people. Seems that MS is working hard towards lowering their market share.

The Neon compatibility layer sounds like stuff of nightmares for older games.
Post edited March 31, 2023 by idbeholdME
Posted March 31, 2023
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AB2012: Given that W10 is supported until 2025 (consumer) / 2031 (LTSC IoT)
Oh thanks, even better - there is a chance that W10 could be my last gaming OS ;)

Thank you for the Windows 12 info, quite intriguing. I expect that community would ask politely some skillfulll AI to program WINBox for gaming purposes with black jack and vast amount of DLLs for near complete compatibility up to Windows 3.11 - Oh, one can only dream.

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idbeholdME: ...that the plug can be pulled on their games whenever Steam feels like it.
I'm not sure Valve is to blame but not Microsoft. At least they are trying to migrate major games on their Steam Deck's version of SteamOS. Anything is better than current Microsoft policy.
Post edited March 31, 2023 by Cadaver747
Posted March 31, 2023
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Cadaver747: Oh thanks, even better - there is a chance that W10 could be my last gaming OS ;)
If it's of any use, the exact End of Support dates for different W10-11 versions are:-

W10 21H2 = 11th June 2024
W11 21H2 = 8th Oct 2024
W10 22H2 = 13th May 2025
W11 22H2 = 14th Oct 2025
W10 Enterprise LTSC (21H2) = 12th Jan 2027
W10 Enterprise LTSC (1809) = 9th Jan 2029
W10 Enterprise LTSC IoT (21H2) = 13th Jan 2032

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/release-health/release-information
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/release-health/windows11-release-information

^ They used to give the full 10 years to all LTSC versions but crippled the latest 21H2 to just 5 years. However the 21H2 LTSC IoT (same ISO, just a key change) still gives the full 10 years until 2032.
Post edited March 31, 2023 by AB2012
Posted March 31, 2023
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AB2012: Translation - We plan to make the Windows partition read-only to users, so all those debloating tools will be blocked.
Oh God no. I find even W10 is unusable without OpenShell + a lot of debloating.

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AB2012: If it's of any use, the exact End of Support dates for different W10-11 versions are:- (snip)
Yeah "Consumer W11" looks like a child's toy compared to LTSC. It's just a shame you can't buy it "normally". Still, that's Microsoft's loss as plenty of gamers seem to be using it anyway (often with better performance).
Posted March 31, 2023
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AB2012: If it's of any use, the exact End of Support dates for different W10-11 versions are:-

W10 21H2 = 11th June 2024
W11 21H2 = 8th Oct 2024
W10 22H2 = 13th May 2025
W11 22H2 = 14th Oct 2025
W10 Enterprise LTSC (21H2) = 12th Jan 2027
W10 Enterprise LTSC (1809) = 9th Jan 2029
W10 Enterprise LTSC IoT (21H2) = 13th Jan 2032
Oh great, I'm sure I have the key for the old Enterprise till 2027.
Why the heck there are several different versions of W10 Enterprise, it makes no sense to me.

Thanks again, it helped.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam drops Windows 7 support in January 2024(169 posts)(169 posts)
(169 posts)