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General discussionSteam abandonment of WIN 7 - 10(23 posts)(23 posts)
(23 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 15, 2023
Hi all!

I haven't posted much here but I realised I will be purchasing here as often as possible due to current developments over at... (Sorry made a mistake including WIN 10 in title yet no doubt, that'll be next at some point...)

It's a bit of a sh1tshow:
steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/5940851423456467468/

Locked thread as of today, of course.

I am pretty annoyed by their move and I hope Good ole games benefits from it but I have a few questions regarding future purchases from here :

1. Can I refuse to update a game via a purchase of any current or future game from here?

2. Is EPIC installer clearly stated as part of content of game purchase? Can it be avoided?

3. Am I allowed to install purchases across a few laptops in lieu of the Installer this site uses?

I just want to enjoy my old games and not have to have online access in order to enjoy them.

Does this site have any plans for acquiring great old games such as Medieval 2? Is there a list by year of games offered here anywhere?

Can anyone suggest a surefire method of recovering my dead investments over at Steam?

Thanks so much for any replies and guidance.
Post edited October 15, 2023 by nuieo805798345
Posted October 15, 2023
high rated
Prepare for a deluge of unsympathetic responses.

This topic was previously discussed here:
Steam drops Windows 7 support in January 2024

TLDR:
"Win 7 is a dead system."
"It's a security risk. It takes only two seconds and your system is turned into a zombie."
"Everytime you use it, a baby penguin dies somewhere."
Bla bla bla.
Posted October 15, 2023
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g2222: Prepare for a deluge of unsympathetic responses.

This topic was previously discussed here:
Steam drops Windows 7 support in January 2024

TLDR:
"Win 7 is a dead system."
"It's a security risk. It takes only two seconds and your system is turned into a zombie."
"Everytime you use it, a baby penguin dies somewhere."
Bla bla bla.
hehe thanks for link.

This post quickly summarises my current fury:
gog.com/forum/general/steam_drops_windows_7_support_in_january_2024/post161

As per my post above is there anything I should be aware of?

I really don't want to go through this again.

Thanks again : )
Posted October 15, 2023
high rated
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nuieo805798345: 1. Can I refuse to update a game via a purchase of any current or future game from here?

2. Is EPIC installer clearly stated as part of content of game purchase? Can it be avoided?

3. Am I allowed to install purchases across a few laptops in lieu of the Installer this site uses?

I just want to enjoy my old games and not have to have online access in order to enjoy them.

... Is there a list by year of games offered here anywhere?

Can anyone suggest a surefire method of recovering my dead investments over at Steam?

Thanks so much for any replies and guidance.
1) Yes. You can use the offline installers - termed 'backup installers' and keep them safely stored somewhere, using them to install your game the 'old way' where you control where it goes and what version you want. However, that would be whatever version it is at when you buy it as GOG does not usually keep the older offline installers available. If you use this method you can always download updates and try them while also keeping your older installers to roll back to.

2) As far as I know Epic installers are only for the Epic games purchased thru GOG's Galaxy launcher. You do NOT have to use Galaxy as part of purchasing on GOG and in fact if you want to not be forced to update your games I would sincerely advise you not to use Galaxy but to go with the offline 'backup' installers as stated above. I do not have Galaxy installed - in fact the latest version of Galaxy is not supposed to work with Windows 7 (or Linux).

3) Yes. Again, that is the beauty of buying on GOG and using the offline installers. You own your game, no launcher or online connection needed - except for certain multiplayer options or some particular games which offer online only 'rewards' for activating them thru the Galaxy launcher.

For lists by year there are some filters in the store, but I have not used them as I am an old gamer who usually knew what I was after and searched by title.

There is supposed to be a way to disconnect some of your games from Steam. I will be having to do the same here soon but I have not done it yet. Here is a link to some advice on this: DRM and client-free Steam.

Hope that helps.
Post edited October 15, 2023 by bjgamer
Posted October 15, 2023
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g2222: TLDR:
"Win 7 is a dead system."
So? There's still hospitals using Windows 95 and ATM's using OS2/Warp.
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g2222: "It's a security risk. It takes only two seconds and your system is turned into a zombie."
As with every major security vulnerability found.
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g2222: "Everytime you use it, a baby penguin dies somewhere."
Noooo! Not the cute baby penguins!
Posted October 15, 2023
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nuieo805798345: I just want to enjoy my old games and not have to have online access in order to enjoy them.
This is a very reasonable stipulation, and a key reason why glorified game rental storefronts are a bad deal for the consumer.

Congratulations for choosing a better platform. It's never too late to make better purchasing decisions. I'm sure you'll like it here.
Posted October 15, 2023
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nuieo805798345: 1. Can I refuse to update a game via a purchase of any current or future game from here?

2. Is EPIC installer clearly stated as part of content of game purchase? Can it be avoided?

3. Am I allowed to install purchases across a few laptops in lieu of the Installer this site uses?

I just want to enjoy my old games and not have to have online access in order to enjoy them.

... Is there a list by year of games offered here anywhere?

Can anyone suggest a surefire method of recovering my dead investments over at Steam?

Thanks so much for any replies and guidance.
avatar
bjgamer: 1) Yes. You can use the offline installers - termed 'backup installers' and keep them safely stored somewhere, using them to install your game the 'old way' where you control where it goes and what version you want. However, that would be whatever version it is at when you buy it as GOG does not usually keep the older offline installers available. If you use this method you can always download updates and try them while also keeping your older installers to roll back to.

2) As far as I know Epic installers are only for the Epic games purchased thru GOG's Galaxy launcher. You do NOT have to use Galaxy as part of purchasing on GOG and in fact if you want to not be forced to update your games I would sincerely advise you not to use Galaxy but to go with the offline 'backup' installers as stated above. I do not have Galaxy installed - in fact the latest version of Galaxy is not supposed to work with Windows 7 (or Linux).

3) Yes. Again, that is the beauty of buying on GOG and using the offline installers. You own your game, no launcher or online connection needed - except for certain multiplayer options or some particular games which offer online only 'rewards' for activating them thru the Galaxy launcher.

For lists by year there are some filters in the store, but I have not used them as I am an old gamer who usually knew what I was after and searched by title.

There is supposed to be a way to disconnect some of your games from Steam. I will be having to do the same here soon but I have not done it yet. Here is a link to some advice on this: DRM and client-free Steam.

Hope that helps.
Ok , awesome reply and very much appreciated, thank you.

Point 2 I raised as some games on Steam now incorporate Epic in their updates over this year. I don't understand how that doesn't violate STeam tos whatever, but I saw that for example Home World Deserts of Karak is available here and will wait for sale then get it. IF it doesn't require the update with EPIC that ruined that game for me on STeam where I am seeking a refund now.

It took me some time even using regedit to remove the EPIC installer from my OS. Wasn't happy at all...

I really hate being forced to update games that, old or new, take time to configure and happy with them, then utterly changed in nature by basically cheap, lazy and unskilled 'dev' or suit clad greed and at a whim... It's terrifying really.

My second peeve is needing an online connection+Logging in to play single player games. That outright sh*ts me.

Really sad and completely unethical.

Thanks so much for replies all, really appreciate it.
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nuieo805798345: I just want to enjoy my old games and not have to have online access in order to enjoy them.
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maxpoweruser: This is a very reasonable stipulation, and a key reason why glorified game rental storefronts are a bad deal for the consumer.

Congratulations for choosing a better platform. It's never too late to make better purchasing decisions. I'm sure you'll like it here.
Oh absolutely, thanks : )

Currently removing WIshlisted games in Steam and seeing if they are here or the few upcoming titles I am following (Yep, modern day so called gaming has devolved to that for me...) might be, instead : )
Post edited October 15, 2023 by nuieo805798345
Posted October 15, 2023
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g2222: TLDR:
"Win 7 is a dead system."
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rtcvb32: So? There's still hospitals using Windows 95 and ATM's using OS2/Warp.
avatar
g2222: "It's a security risk. It takes only two seconds and your system is turned into a zombie."
avatar
rtcvb32: As with every major security vulnerability found.
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g2222: "Everytime you use it, a baby penguin dies somewhere."
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rtcvb32: Noooo! Not the cute baby penguins!
I bet, g2222 is just being sarcastic \ ironic \ you name it.
Posted October 15, 2023
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LynXsh: I bet, g2222 is just being sarcastic \ ironic \ you name it.
Probably. Though there's people who may actually think some of those arguments are valid.
Posted October 15, 2023
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nuieo805798345: 1. Can I refuse to update a game via a purchase of any current or future game from here?
Offline Installers are easily GOG's best feature. Eg, if a new one gets crippled in some way (reduced OS compatibility, licensed soundtrack removed, unwanted gameplay changes in work-in-progress games), you can keep the old ones for as long as you can keep them backed up (which with a robust backup strategy could be for life).
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nuieo805798345: 2. Is EPIC installer clearly stated as part of content of game purchase? Can it be avoided?
If you mean the Epic Game Store client, there is an open-source alternative to using that (Heroic Launcher). Many games on Epic are DRM-Free and do not need the client though, so once you have the game files, you can zip up the folder and keep that as your "offline installer" then not need any client for future reinstalls / playing.
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nuieo805798345: 3. Am I allowed to install purchases across a few laptops in lieu of the Installer this site uses?
GOG's "fair use" general rule is "You can install your games on more than one computer as long as you own them / they're in the same household".
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nuieo805798345: I just want to enjoy my old games and not have to have online access in order to enjoy them.
That's the main reason many of us are here. :-)
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nuieo805798345: Does this site have any plans for acquiring great old games such as Medieval 2? Is there a list by year of games offered here anywhere?
The Wishlist is as close as it gets for finding out what's "In Progress" / voting for games.
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nuieo805798345: Can anyone suggest a surefire method of recovering my dead investments over at Steam?
As with Epic, some games on Steam don't use DRM (including Steam's own SteamStub / SteamWorks / CEG):-
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam
https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

You may need Steam to download them to get the files for the first time, but after this these can be played without any client running. As with Epic above, if you were to download those games now, then zip up the game folder and back it up, you may be able to reinstall (ie, unzip) / replay many of them in future with no need for any client. If you're going to do that whilst still running W7, then you probably need to do it now before next year.

Edit: Another thing to backup is Windows dependencies. Most games on Steam will have it within the folder, but just in case you need them:-
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/does_anyone_know_the_libraries_and_other_software_required_on_a_clean_install/post4
Post edited October 15, 2023 by AB2012
Posted October 15, 2023
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rtcvb32: So? There's still hospitals using Windows 95 and ATM's using OS2/Warp.
The real issue here is that unsupported OSes shouldn't be connected to the internet. Of course one can use, and indeed many do, ancient OSes on retro machines with age-appropriate hardware. But I don't think any digital distribution platform makes a goal out of supporting these type of deals.

As for GOG, I think most of the older games that haven't been made "Galactic" will support Win7 just fine. Of course there are some that came out back in the Win7 days which still received updates that might have borked support for anything but Windows 10, but one would hope it's the exception and not the norm.

Keep in mind it's not in GOG's mantra to care about older OSes either. That being said, things should be better here with regards to Windows XP and 7 support.
Posted October 15, 2023
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WinterSnowfall: Keep in mind it's not in GOG's mantra to care about older OSes either.
I think many people have observed how 'flexible' they can be in that area though:-

Half the games on the store with a Linux version = ("Supported: Ubuntu 14.04 (2011), Ubuntu 16.04 (2015), Ubuntu 18.04 (2017)").

Current "in support" Ubuntu versions = 22.04 LTS (2022), 23.10 (2023)...
Posted October 15, 2023
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nuieo805798345: It's a bit of a sh1tshow:
steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/5940851423456467468/
Funny how people sometimes realize that hey, maybe DRM isn't always such a great thing.

Or maybe they don't, and that person really thinks Valve should support all the past and dead Windows releases that they've supported at some point (starting from Windows 2000 I believe). In which case that complainer in the Steam forum is an idiot, or course it is not feasible for Valve to keep supporting all the past Windows releases from here to eternity. No one does that, not even GOG.

I had that same revelation as that guy already a very very long time ago, back when Steam stopped supporting Windows 2000 and I couldn't launch Steam anymore on my Windows 2000 PC to play Team Fortress Classic, I just got a notification that sorry Steam does not support Windows 2000 anymore, and that was that.

Of course I could continue playing my Steam games later when I upgraded to Windows XP, but that incident opened my eyes to the fact that the forced client (and the DRM) is yet another obstacle that may prevent me from being able to play my games.

Namely: Let's say I have some old Steam games that do not run on Windows 8 or later. So the client makes it impossible to play them on Windows 7 (and earlier), while the game itself refuses to run on any newer Windows versions. Ergo, I can't play it at all anymore, no matter what I did.

As for GOG games, it is possible (and even probable) GOG will also update some installers so that they don't work on older Windows versions anymore, as they did before. However, at least in their case you have options, that you don't have with (Steam) games that require the client:

1. Download and keep the old GOG offline installer(s) that you know works on your older unsupported Windows version, and keep using that. Don't replace it with the updated installer from GOG servers, that doesn't necessarily work anymore.

2. Upgrade to the newer Windows release, and use the updated installer that works there.

Since GOG Galaxy is optional for single-player games, it can't prevent you from playing your GOG games due to unsupported Windows release.
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WinterSnowfall: Keep in mind it's not in GOG's mantra to care about older OSes either. That being said, things should be better here with regards to Windows XP and 7 support.
As said, it is not feasible to keep supporting all the past dead Windows releases that Steam or GOG may have supported over a decade ago. No one does that.

What makes GOG's situation better is that at least you have an option to play your offline installer games somewhere: either keep the older installer that still works on your older Windows release, or upgrade to the new Windows version where the updated GOG installer works.

With Steam (those games that require the client in order to run) you can end up in a situation that you can't play some of your games no matter what: the client doesn't let you run it on older Windows release, while the game itself refuses to run on a new Windows release. No matter what you do, you are screwed.

With GOG games, that shouldn't happen.
Post edited October 15, 2023 by timppu
Posted October 15, 2023
OP instead of opinions on how you are wrong and they are right (the entire steam forum) , etc etc blah blah, here is something actually useful:

This repo is for those like you that don't like throwing their likely hard earned money away and treating games like disposable media:
https://github.com/vogonsorg/OfflineGames

Three text files listing game launcher emulators, Ports and the list of games and what method to use to bypass or remove the DRM on them.

The repo is intended for cases as per the DMCA where the technological measure no longer effectively controls or effectively protects the content due to the copyright owner failing to do so so that those who purchased "their" games can continue to use them without being forced to use something completely unnecessary on an OS they don't want to or can't use.

I plan to have this updated with more info soon. Almost done going over all GOG games that I own and listing Windows 2000+ OS (no 9x yet) compatibility which will be added to the list for those who want to use their DRM free GOG game on their OS or to use files from their GOG DRM free game to fix their Other Store DRM infected game.

I removed wishlisted games from Steam long ago when I learned that they were making mistaken assumptions based off of those. I keep them in a text file. :)
Post edited October 15, 2023 by DosFreak
Posted October 15, 2023
This is what you get if you put your money into DRM gaming - or GOG installers that don't work on older system.

The one thing you can do is to hope that your old Steam version will still work for a few years until they change the network for security reason or whatever.


Why does no one ever complain that Windows 95 and Windows 3.11 are no longer supported?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam abandonment of WIN 7 - 10(23 posts)(23 posts)
(23 posts)