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GamezRanker: (on bolded bit) So, like the skorts they put on Clair in REmake2? Or the other puritanical censorious edits they've made to "appeal to modern sensibilities"?

One word: blegh
Nothing is confirmed yet, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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GamezRanker: There's actually a mod that adds in most of the cut content to the first game(and also the second as well, iirc). It is quite decent, from what i've played of it so far. :)
There is, but it would have been nice to have it officially finished and included in the base game.

The problem with restoration mods is that they usually take the blanket approach and restore any and all cut content they stumble upon, even if some of it would be better left omitted or was cut for genuine reasons other than time constraints. And the only authority when it comes to that would have been people from the original crew, none of which (as far as I know) are participating in this in any capacity.
Post edited September 13, 2021 by idbeholdME
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GamezRanker: If they took out(or "streamlined"....i.e. reduced) the stats/party management/inventory/etc, what would be left of the original KOTOR experience? Would it even still be fun to play?
(part of the appeal of the original games, to me, was all those things listed above)
Right? Nerds like me COMPLAINED about how streamlined & "consolized"/dumbed down it was as a D20 RPG compared to other D&D RtWP games released by BioWare and Black Isle in the past. Still loved it for it's story and choices though.
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idbeholdME: There is, but it would have been nice to have it officially finished and included in the base game.

The problem with restoration mods is that they usually take the blanket approach and restore any and all cut content they stumble upon, even if some of it would be better left omitted or was cut for genuine reasons other than time constraints. And the only authority when it comes to that would have been people from the original crew, none of which (as far as I know) are participating in this in any capacity.
Yeah, sometimes they make some iffy decisions with such mods/etc, but often they do a decent job....and also, it allows people to play the cut content, which imo is always a plus. :)
(also some of em allow content to be added/removed to one's installation in piecemeal fashion, depending on what one wants, and don't just add everything into the mix)



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GreasyDogMeat: Right? Nerds like me COMPLAINED about how streamlined & "consolized"/dumbed down it was as a D20 RPG compared to other D&D RtWP games released by BioWare and Black Isle in the past. Still loved it for it's story and choices though.
Yeah, for what it had, it did it well enough usually.....especially KOTOR 2, which added some new features/mechanics/items/etc that the first didn't have.
Post edited September 13, 2021 by GamezRanker
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Breja: I don't want a remake. I'm perfectly happy to play the original. I want a worthy sequel.
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scientiae: Did you see the unofficial third game —— it's a mod, a "Total Conversion for KOTOR II". It was only released last year, so I was unaware myself.
Nice! I wasn't aware of that. Thank you!

As for the remake: yuck. Why would I want that? The old game is perfectly playable and I don't need shinier graphics in exchange for cut content and an increased price.
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idbeholdME: The problem with restoration mods is that they usually take the blanket approach and restore any and all cut content they stumble upon, even if some of it would be better left omitted or was cut for genuine reasons other than time constraints. And the only authority when it comes to that would have been people from the original crew, none of which (as far as I know) are participating in this in any capacity.
I would categorize the Droid Planet [M4-78EP] additional location and content (added as an option with the Restoration mod of The Sith Lords) thus. I can believe that it was cut because it just isn't up to a retail standard. With a proper remake, all that source material could be recompiled into a better collection of puzzles and missions.

I only played through it once. It was pretty boring —— not to mention incredibly demanding on the computer I had back then —— and only a completist would wish to play it. (There are a couple of fighting styles and a bit of loot upon completion.) I went to replay it with T3 but that was impossible (without a step-by-step dialog cheatsheet), since the game only transcribes T3's onomatopoeic dialogue of beeps and whistles, which makes the conversations random one-sided nonsense. =]

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scientiae:
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Lifthrasil: Nice! I wasn't aware of that. Thank you!

As for the remake: yuck. Why would I want that? The old game is perfectly playable and I don't need shinier graphics in exchange for cut content and an increased price.
Unfortunately, unless you collect antiquated hardware and unsupported obsolete versions of Windows, eventually the original game will not be accessible anymore.

Disclaimer: I haven't played the mod I linked, btw: no warranty expressed or implied!

I just noticed it was there and downloaded it, so feel free to add a follow-up comment about it here, later. :) This is because in order to play it, one needs to uninstall all mods —— includeing The Sith Lords Restored Content (current latest version 1.8.6). I won't be doing that anytime soon. Because:

NOTE: This mod is not designed to work with other ones. I recommend you remove all other Kotor2 mods before installing this one.
modDb
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idbeholdME: The problem with restoration mods is that they usually take the blanket approach and restore any and all cut content they stumble upon, even if some of it would be better left omitted or was cut for genuine reasons other than time constraints. And the only authority when it comes to that would have been people from the original crew, none of which (as far as I know) are participating in this in any capacity.
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scientiae: I would categorize the Droid Planet [M4-78EP] additional location and content (added as an option with the Restoration mod of The Sith Lords) thus. I can believe that it was cut because it just isn't up to a retail standard. With a proper remake, all that source material could be recompiled into a better collection of puzzles and missions.

I only played through it once. It was pretty boring —— not to mention incredibly demanding on the computer I had back then —— and only a completist would wish to play it. (There are a couple of fighting styles and a bit of loot upon completion.) I went to replay it with T3 but that was impossible (without a step-by-step dialog cheatsheet), since the game only transcribes T3's onomatopoeic dialogue of beeps and whistles, which makes the conversations random one-sided nonsense. =]

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Lifthrasil: Nice! I wasn't aware of that. Thank you!

As for the remake: yuck. Why would I want that? The old game is perfectly playable and I don't need shinier graphics in exchange for cut content and an increased price.
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scientiae: Unfortunately, unless you collect antiquated hardware and unsupported obsolete versions of Windows, eventually the original game will not be accessible anymore.
You are aware that you're on GOG? A site, whose only remaining purpose (after ditching DRM-free) is, to keep older games running on modern systems? Both KOTOR and KOTOR2, as they are sold here, are Win-10 compatible. And no, you don't need "antiquated hardware and unsupported obsolete versions of Windows" to run GOG games.
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scientiae: unless you collect antiquated hardware and unsupported obsolete versions of Windows, eventually the original game will not be accessible anymore
Why not? Even much older games tend to work fine on modern systems.

In addition, xoreos ( or some other implementation of Aurora engine ) may eventually become completed. ;)
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scientiae:
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Lifthrasil: You are aware that you're on GOG? A site, whose only remaining purpose (after ditching DRM-free) is, to keep older games running on modern systems? Both KOTOR and KOTOR2, as they are sold here, are Win-10 compatible. And no, you don't need "antiquated hardware and unsupported obsolete versions of Windows" to run GOG games.
I am well aware that they work on Windows 10, since I have them installed. (I had a game of KotOR in between adding these comments, in fact. :)

I was referring to the eventual demise of backwards compatibility. (There are other games that do not work on 10, but did on earlier versions of Wndows.)

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AlexTerranova: In addition, xoreos ( or some other implementation of Aurora engine ) may eventually become completed. ;)
Let's hope so. :)
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https://
youtu.be/0RXQYTo1x58
long vid about possible kotor fail
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GreasyDogMeat: For those looking for the next best thing to KoTOR III I'd recommend The Old Republic.

I've avoided it for a long time... because I hate MMORPGs, EA & modern BioWare... but I finally gave it a shot and I'm honestly shocked at how good it is for free players and as a single player experience. Every mission has dialogue, well acted too, decent story, no contact with other players required, no grinding required and other positives. It's not as connected to the previous games as KoTOR II was connected to KoTOR I, but there are a number of references and connections.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a proper KoTOR III, but I don't see it happening. If it does happen it will be... 'modernized' trash.
See, the thing is: when a game's online-only and you can play through the game solo no problem - then it shouldn't even have the online requirements. At that point, the online-only factor is basically DRM and/or doing data-mining.

The best thing would be for SW: TOR to get re-worked w/ an offline mode w/ bots, AI, etc - and we can properly play the game w/out being tethered to the Net.

I'd love for that to happen to The Secret World and Secret World Legends, too.

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StingingVelvet: If it's a real remake I assume it'll have action combat and much bigger zones, which would be interesting to see.
About more action-y combat for KOTOR Remake: that was the rumor earlier this year, yes:
https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/games-knights-of-the-old-republic-3-might-be-developed-by-ex-bioware-staff-20210128

We also know Asypr has some ex-BioWare employees, namely from BW Austin (that worked on SW:TOR), working over there too.
Post edited September 13, 2021 by MysterD
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MysterD: See, the thing is: when a game's online-only and you can play through the game solo no problem - then it shouldn't even have the online requirements. At that point, the online-only factor is basically DRM and/or doing data-mining.

The best thing would be for SW: TOR to get re-worked w/ an offline mode w/ bots, AI, etc - and we can properly play the game w/out being tethered to the Net.

I'd love for that to happen to The Secret World and Secret World Legends, too.
Well, I'll actually defend it a bit in the sense that it IS a MMORPG and subscriptions and online purchases are the entire way they monetize it. They just happened to do a pretty darn good job at creating something that can be enjoyed without a lot of the MMORPG elements.

Now, I'd love it if they did create an offline version of the game because it would only take some relatively minor tweaking to prep it to be completely offline single player experience. They could still charge a standard one time fee for it and I frankly think it would be worth full price based on content quantity and quality. A lot of the side quests are boring busy work, but the main storyline has been interesting.

Some things can't really be fixed though without some heavy editing. I believe I mentioned it before but the maps are huge. Likely to make room for larger groups of players. A lot of it is just empty space.
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MysterD: About more action-y combat for KOTOR Remake: that was the rumor earlier this year, yes:
https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/games-knights-of-the-old-republic-3-might-be-developed-by-ex-bioware-staff-20210128
I love traditional RPGs, playing Pathfinder 2 right now, but I also love action RPGs. Will be cool to see what they do with it.
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MysterD: About more action-y combat for KOTOR Remake: that was the rumor earlier this year, yes:
https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/games-knights-of-the-old-republic-3-might-be-developed-by-ex-bioware-staff-20210128
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StingingVelvet: I love traditional RPGs, playing Pathfinder 2 right now, but I also love action RPGs. Will be cool to see what they do with it.
yeah those are one on the best games
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Mori_Yuki: Basically they could strip out most of the RP elements, stats and maybe even party management if they manage to script a working AI for them.
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GamezRanker: If they took out(or "streamlined"....i.e. reduced) the stats/party management/inventory/etc, what would be left of the original KOTOR experience? Would it even still be fun to play?
(part of the appeal of the original games, to me, was all those things listed above)
Much of the original feel and experience will inevitably be lost and some mechanics will have to be changed or adapted. I find that The Outer Worlds system with Stats, Abilities, Reputation, Perks and Flaws would be a good choice.

With a more dynamic approach to which side of the force your character will be drawn to. This could also have an influence on your party members (if there are going to be any) luring them to the dark- or back to the light-side and their general behavior towards each other depending which side they are headed.

In the original it was possible to select and use powers of both sides at a cost. It'd take more force points to use dark powers if you were on the light-side which could been taken the edge off of investing in charisma and wisdom.

If all powers will be available all the time it should have an influence on their effectiveness rather than a generic cost and a possible waste of stats points. If only powers of one side can be used while you are on that side it could make fights more difficult and selecting force powers less trivial. Using either should only influence the scale to either side depending how the powers are used. Even dark-side powers can be used for a good cause.

With a fully dynamic approach the influencing factors will be:
Abilities, which you can only select from one side or the other.
You may be able to use force powers from both sides but they will be less effective
Depending how far you are on the good || evil side you will receive perks on the one and flaws on the other side
This then can influence how you approach an RP situation/dialogue where normally you'd be levelheaded your character will become erratic, nervous or aggressive and hotheaded

This could be taken in all sorts of directions influencing Char->Party and Char-Party->NPC interaction as well as encounters and quests.

Decoupling the RP system from levels and stats, where the latter could as well be set once during character creation and maybe you can earn a point or two from time to time as special reward, would make them more meaningful. The way it is is that eventually you are going to reach a point where stats/level-ups become meaningless. Once the exp-cap has been reached it all boils down to strength of armor and weapons and their respective stats. Weapons and armor could hence be tied to stats and more/less effective depending on their condition rather than additional levels you'd have to meet to use them. With a workbench to craft gear and weapons (unique or otherwise) there could also be need for repair to improve both.

Necessarily some things will have to go like the tutorial which was the Endar Spire. I think not even BioWare was very happy with it introducing almost all controls and most of the fighting system during that stage. Instead Aspyr should turn it into an extended intro. RTwP is also a candidate that I think BioWare would have wished to have implemented differently. Come to think of it they also received bad press and many players also didn't like it very much. They wanted to hack away on enemies rather than dynamically pause to issue some low-level strategic commands where maybe BioWare had more of a top-level strategic approach in mind.

For me the tutorial which I didn't like for the fact that the first NPC you meet has had two difference voice actors. One sounding natural and the other sounding like he had read his lines off of a script describing how your inventory works, how to open chests and everything else Bio though necessary for us to know to become able to play the game.

I am not sure how a fight should look like without turning the RPG the original was into a shooter or sword/power ARP. While in this type there is also stats in this case it could be left out completely. Otherwise the only need for stats would be to influence interaction with (quest)-NPC turning it more or less into a choose your own path action adventure that a full fledged and deep RP(G). In that case they could simply leave it out and this would turn it into exactly that time of game neither new players Aspyr and Co. are aiming for to attract and put off fans of the original the way it was.

How it will turn out will depend on the lessons former BioWare and Lucas Arts members working on the original had learned and what Aspyr can take away to improve on it. Deconstructing the original as well as looking into what fans thought and think about went right and wrong will be a crucial factor for the future of this remake. They could do both and learn all the wrong lessons from it which has happened with other faithful remakes in the past. For instance just looking at input identifying what players seemed to like or dislike, without knowing or thinking about why, they might add or cancel features no one's asked for or worked in the past and would in an upcoming game, turning it into a major failure.

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GamezRanker: Of course, yes....a game changed in such ways could maybe end up being good......but it wouldn't be the same. (also, if the rest of the team they've hired/picked to make it is like the one person mentioned so far then I have doubts as to its eventual quality)
It will never be the same and can't. The one person you are alluding to I have to wonder how she could end up on that team. Not necessarily because she admittedly said she wasn't a huge fan but the way she acts and behaves. I read the Twitter excerpts and to me she should not work on that or any game or team. Who is she as a person to attack people in such an immature way? Who is she thinking to be entitled to teach adults how to think? If she has an agenda she should take and keep it on Twitter and her loyal followers. She mustn't educate others that's not on her.

Personally I got no problem to have certain things in games. This can be more open and meaningful now that may have been the case in the past without overstepping lines (romance and more intimate relationships). That's what BioWare has done in their games after all. To me this more open approach deciding who your character gets attracted to and have a relationship with can greatly add to immersion and experience. Gender and pronouns can be left out completely unless Aspyr wants to move themselves into a cul-de-sac. I suspect most of the dialogue portions will be voiced and this not being taken into account. If they don't pay attention a mistake is bound to happen, where a character is addressed as she/he instead of the pronoun of choice. Why waste time to implement something like this when it doesn't mean anything at all? Same thing with pre-made NPC models looking a certain way, gender fluid or however one should call it. That's just another way to push some agenda which for me there's no space in the Star Wars universe for that.

If Asypr knows what's good for them they leave this out otherwise they risk to put off old time fans completely while attracting a small group of new players to the franchise. Hardly enough to make a profit on it which they can't risk.

For now we got to wait and see what direction they will take it and hope that one person will not have the say where script and story will be heading. I am willing to give it a fair chance as long as it's going to be a well made remake minding thoughts and feelings of old fans while not listening to certain vociferous group's demands. It's all on Aspyr now whom I wish the best of luck to turn their project into a success.
Post edited September 14, 2021 by Mori_Yuki
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MysterD: About more action-y combat for KOTOR Remake: that was the rumor earlier this year, yes:
https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/games-knights-of-the-old-republic-3-might-be-developed-by-ex-bioware-staff-20210128
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StingingVelvet: I love traditional RPGs, playing Pathfinder 2 right now, but I also love action RPGs. Will be cool to see what they do with it.
I love all of those too (ARPG's) - but I really am not sure if I'm gonna like changes to an ARPG system for KOTOR Remake. I get why they would do it to moderinize it and all, but...I'm afraid strategic elements might go out the window here. I really do hope they do keep that BioWare-style strategic pause though.

Also, I've been playing Pathfinder 1: Kingmaker and I think it's really good so far; some 38 hours into it or so.
Post edited September 14, 2021 by MysterD