Holy hell...

I pretty much avoided everything pertaining to this movie - not because I wanted to avoid spoilers but because I don't really care, but I'm quite surprised to see how this thing is getting hammered with negative reviews. It has a 7.9 score on IMDB, which is pretty much unheard of for a fanboi franchise - usually this kind of movie would be struggling with The Godfather and The Dark Knight for the title of 2nd best movie evar.

I'm mildly intrigued now. Most people have shit taste, so a 7.9 might not neccesarily mean a bad thing. Or maybe the film simply is a massive 2.5hour waste of time turd. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

As a side note: Am I the only one who thinks Mark Hamill wouldn't look out of place in a Charles Manson biopic?

Yeah, I really did get my wish for once! Although I'm still a little afraid that when Abrams comes back for the next movie he'll be like "no, it was a lie! You are seventh daughter of the seventh daughter of Mace Windu!" or some shit.

I like the fact that the movie played with expectations and cliches in general, it's just a pity they didn't have a stronger script to go with it. There's so many giant plot holes or scenes that are just silly or pointless that it almost entirely undermines whatever ambitions they had to tell something new and clever.

Exactly my impression.

Ok, here's something I've been pondering since yesterday. And it's probably more than a little silly, but anyway.

Regardless of the quality of the new movies, whether you think they are good, bad or mediocre... do you think the new trilogy invalidates the original? I mean, I know the original is sitll canon, but pretty much everything that happened there didn't mean shit according to the new movies. Luke failed utterly as a Jedi Master. His new Jedi Order crashed and burned. The New Republic is some hilariously inept facade that fell apart entirely off screen. The Empire (let's not split hairs - it is the Empire) is back and seemingly as strong as ever. Han and Leia's marriage fell apart. Lando has just disappeared apparently. Everything the happy end of Return of the Jedi promised us, the ending we cheered for so much when we first saw it (at least I assume you did, becasue I sure did) turned out to be a lie.

I know those movies are still there to be watched and enjoyed just as they were. The prequels didn't ruin them for me, and neither will the sequels. But when watching the new movies and looking back, doesn't it feel kinda wrong to have shat upon all of that so completely?

I'm in the camp that says everything after Jedi has been utter garbage and unworthy of the name Star Wars.
I'm also of the camp that says Timothy Zahn trilogy is Star Wars at its best and how they should have proceeded with the story.

Part of what you just said however could also be applied to the Zahn books. He created a new threat to the New Republic, by the time the 2nd book ended, things looked real bad for them. The happy ending RotJ left us with was gone by this point but didn't turn out to be a lie. Luke was an incredible Jedi master but still with many doubts of his abilities and wisdom. Han/Leia were together and a force to be reckoned with. They had plenty of allies and the writing made it obvious they were working hard to keep the precarious nature of the new govt in order and not in constant shambles.

I think its just the nature of a 9 part story where there will be ups and downs and things go from bad to hopeless to uplifting and good. The latter is how episode 9 will end obviously. And then episode 10 will begin with a new threat and a new Jedi on some outlying sand planet that no one knew about who will be the real Chosen one and be the prophecy to bring balance to the force. And so on.

My main beef is the stories we see on screen are so bad. Really bad. But because its "Star Wars" and the lightsaber and space battles are cool, people give it a pass.

Yes, it does. That was the oft-repeated complaint back when 7 was released. It doesn't contradict the original, though, it's a genre shift rather than a retcon. Realistic (non-operatic) interpretations of the ending have been around since 1983 and, on the interwebs, became a persistent topic for fansites and later clickbait listicles: the empire is huge, killing Palpatine changes nothing, all the rebels did was liberate a couple systems, Endor holocaust. Rogue One did it, too, by retroactively changing Darth Vader from a space opera villain to Seriously Hitler.

(I also think the EU has shat on the original movies plenty.)

The only thing I'm pissed about is the character assassination of Luke. He *was* the last Jedi, like Rey is now; there was no kool-aid for him to drink and fuck up the way he did. Every reason 8 gives for investing our hopes in Rey was true for Luke, too. I mean, we all know how he reacted when he found out Darth Vader was his dad -- how do you go from this to insane cultist?

Aside from that, and the plot holes, I like the new movies. However, I looked up some supplementary material, and surprise surprise, it's trash, the way Disney's direct to video sequels are trash. Even worse, it shows Disney doesn't know what to do and what to not do with the setting, they can't protect the IP the way well-managed brands do. So I'm not optimistic about the upcoming theatrical movies either.

I know I'm just an "idiotic fanboy" but are we reading too much into this? :P

I have Pod Racer schematics on my wall and a mini Vader bobble head sitting on my monitor, but I'm not sitting here thinking about social impact, genre impact, or legacy. I'm thinking, "When BB-8 stuck his head into the panel to fix the ship, that was awesome!"

For me thinking about this stuff is half the fun of watching movies :P

And this particular thing really isn't going all that deep down the rabbit hole. I find it hard to belive that no part of you, such a Star Wars fanboy, felt that Luke's portrayal was somewhat off, or that having everything that was accomplished by the end of the original trilogy invalidated is kind of a disappointing set up for the new one. I care about that question precisely because I am a fan.

That's the crux of it. Obviously a new threat has to emerge, things have to get worse before they get better etc. But as the old EU showed, that doesn't have to mean that everything accomplished in the original trilogy has to go to shit.

I expect so, and I don't mind at all that things are in a bad place now. I jsut wish the set up wasn't such a "fuck you" to the original movies.

Also, there is a chance, I guess, that this trology will not end all that happily if it will in fact turn out ot be something like the prequel trilogy for the next trilogy :P

Just to be clear, I didn't only mean Star Wars, I do that with almost every movie :D Just not always from a long term fan's point of view.

Anyway, I think we're all well pretty well aware that we won't discover here something no one else has ever thought of Star Wars. Hell, before I made it to the theatre on monday there were already so many articles and analysis about the movie on line I still have not cought up with them.

No.

Star Wars was the highest grossing movie of all time, at the time of its release. The Force Awakens is now the third highest grossing film of all time. The Last Jedi is set up to certainly come close to that.

Star Wars is one of, if not the, most popular movie franchise of all time. Of course it matters, and it should be examined closely.

PS.: No, of course it doesn't invalidate the original series. Happy endings are only a matter of where you end the story. There is always strife to follow, and it was certainly inevitable in any continuation of the original trilogy. Just because there is conflict now, it doesn't erase all the years where the Republic was restored, or that Luke ran a Jedi school for many years, or that Han and Leia had a son who they loved and grew up healthy to adulthood.

well, he is an adult, and apart from that scar he seems pretty healthy. :D

I'd question his mental health though. He certainly has some anger management problems.

We've all been there. I remember when I killed my father and then tried to blow up my uncle. Nothing that can't be ironed out with a little good family therapy.

LOL

The AV Club had this article yesterday at 9am:

The Last Jedi's best moment is a "fuck you" to George Lucas and J.J. Abrams

I was one of the very first commenters on the article, and said:

"I don’t see how the scene where Luke sucks that green milk straight off that alien’s tit, then looks directly at the camera and does a creepy smile, could be seen as a fuck you to George Lucas and JJ Abrams."

Then 9 hours later sister site Kotaku posted:

Let's Talk About The Weirdest (And Best) Scene In The Last Jedi

And guess what scene it is about! Don't tell me this is a coincidence.