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CymTyr: the kids sitting next to me were annoying the f*ck out of me by squeezing their water bottles and rustling around with plastic wrappers every chance they got.
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tinyE: Same thing happened when I went to see "Star Whores: A New Grope"
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johnnygoging: I'm not reading anything else in this thread until I see the film but I feel like whatever moratorium on spoilers that existed in this thread is probably logical to have lifted now. it's just the previous event when that happened was really abrupt and not transitioned or achieved by consensus at all.

so anyways from reading the few words of peoples' posts, it seems like spoilers are still being respected here and when you think about it, that probably doesn't make sense anymore.

so yeah, people should consider this spoiler territory now to talk freely about the film I think. just if anyone else gets burned maybe throw a warning up front in OP or in your posts.
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tinyE: there was one asshole not respecting spoilers and he was doing that on purpose. He did the exact same thing two years ago for Ep 7 and unless GOG finally IP bans him (ARE YOU LISTING!?!?!) he'll be back for IX. In fact, I'm pretty sure he never saw the movie to begin with. Pretty much everything he posted he got from internet rumor.
mhm? great times all around.

anyway I'm not quite 100% sure what is the best way to handle it but people who saw the film should have a place to talk about the film now. I just wanted to come back and just add my 0.02 there just in case people were still being careful about spoilers mainly cause of that business earlier. this is the movie thread and the movie is out so you should be able to talk about the movie in this thread. and while it didn't become a huge thing, I feel some blame is on me for bumping the earlier thread just before the movie came out, but at the time it seemed like the thing to do. still, definitely could have been handled better.

and I'm kind of bummed nobody showed up to say "I've got a bad feeling about this" before the perfectly crafted spoiler switcharoo post showed up. I mean come on this is the Star Wars thread!
Looking back on it, maybe actually the biggest surprise for me was when they burned the Jedi texts, and the camera zoomed in on them and we saw they they were actually all the Star Wars Expanded Universe books, with the Thrawn trilogy right on top, and Luke turned to the camera and said "Fuck Timothy Zahn".

That was a bit gratuitous.
If I understand correctly, the book for this movie wasn't published before the movie?

I've read the book for VII from the local library. I think I'll just wait for the book for this one, too. Easier to fast forward and rewind, no lavish special effects, and more comfortable.
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tinyE:
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johnnygoging: and I'm kind of bummed nobody showed up to say "I've got a bad feeling about this" before the perfectly crafted spoiler switcharoo post showed up. I mean come on this is the Star Wars thread!
Was that said in VIII?

It just occurred to me I don't remember if it was.

It must have and I missed it.

The movie does one thing consistently and that going against the series norms so somehow I wouldn't be shocked if they skipped it.
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DaCostaBR: Although if you want me to disagree with your opinion, well, a lot of characters do fuck up in this movie, yeah. Failure and learning from it is what the movie is about. That little muppet even has a speech about it and everything.
But... they don't learn. The veteran characters are saddled with failures that are not their own, learn absolutely nothing and step down because the actors are old and the Mouse demands that they do. For Leia to learn from her failure, she had to fail in a way examined by the narrative. Which means she had to be a domineering asshole praised and worshiped for her iconic status and ability to fundraise and recruit Rebel meat, fail, and get called out on it. Fuck me sideways for turning this into a political thread, but she had to be Hillary Clinton. She wasn't; she was everyone's nice warm personable abuela, which means everyone in the Rebel fleet was an enabling idiot, because at the end of the day the Rebels still don't have intelligence in both senses. She steps down when personal tragedy hits and someone makes a useful suggestion. Neither has anything to do with her failure as a general. Generals are people who play Logistics and Dragons, they don't have to dungeon crawl.

Pepe can go fuck the fuck off, it's clear he didn't learn anything. Learning from failure (one's own or someone else's) involves effort; especially if you failed other people (and everyone involved DID), the steps that constitute learning correspond to the steps involved in making a good apology. Pepe on the other hand is like a Christian priest who stamps his own indulgences. "Ooh, I farted in an elevator -- forgiven. I was chief propagandist for the secret religious police of an elitist exploitative regime -- forgiven. I ate a marshmallow during lent -- forgiven."

I'm not discussing Luke in detail until the spoiler embargo is well and truly lifted, but it's really obvious he learned nothing whatsoever.

The only one who demonstrably grows as a character is Rey. Step by step, she rejects prejudice, elitism, mysticism. What's more, her succesors don't need to be taught all that -- as the final scene shows, they've already got everything figured out.

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DaCostaBR: As a physicist, I do find funny how other people tend have a lot less suspension of disbelief than me in regards to movie physics.
I'm also a physicist. I make a distinction between technobabble, a failure to accurately portray mundane reality, and plot >implications. To actually care about the narrative, I need to know the consequences of events and hypothetical events, and bad movie physics get in the way of that.

For a thought experiment, pick a sport you know nothing about (I recommend baseball or cricket) and read an account of the match. The most you'll be able to get is qualifiers - "failed", "got lucky", "training paid off", "scored" and the like. But you wouldn't care and you wouldn't see why anyone does.

Technobabble is easy. The world in most of fiction is euclidean; it's very easy to relate to. Self-contained novel imaginary objects whose interactions with the world are well-documented don't annoy me in the slightest, because their interaction with the world and the consequences thereof are very clear. If someone gets impaled on a fictional lightsaber, they will most likely die, so when people vroom vroom at each other, I know what's at stake.

Problems with mundane reality are, well, problematic. The fact is every story is built on the realistic foundation, and every hypothesis builds on many more real facts than fictional constructs. The lightsaber is fictional, but what it does to the body is a mundane cauterized cut. The power of the lightsaber rides on the assumption that people die when they are killed.
However, these days I do forgive falls and thermal conductivity/convection/radiation, as well as being shot in extremities. Just please don't drown in lava, it's too dense for that.

The absolutely worst problem is plot >implications and selective ingenuity. Many plots rely on characters inventing a solution. Fictional elements need to be especially well-defined to provide space for inventions, especially because every invention is, in a way, a small dig at the audience for not having thought of the same (even though it's practically impossible during the condensed audiovisual barrage of the typical action-adventure movie). The flipside of ingenuity is heroic sacrifice; if it's pointless and useless, the movie's ability to wield the most meaninful consequence goes down the drain. In ep 8, ???'s sacrifice is initially prompted by having to ???, which is iffy - don't they have droids for that? But the tracker thing is even worse. We have two plots centered around tracking and communication that rely on these devices being bulky, expensive, and require oceans of energy. And then there's a communicator the size of an nfc token whose role in the plot is that of a massive hole and nothing else. It's not really a problem that a 3 cm antenna can transmit ftl signals across the galaxy and do triangulation and who the fuck knows what else, it's a problem when that and Arecibo exist side by side.
I disagree. I think the one who grows the most is Luke.

Well, him and the Porgs. They go from being weary of Chewbacca to hanging out with him. That is the very embodiment of character transition.
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tinyE: I disagree. I think the one who grows the most is Luke.
He begins by drinking blue milk from a cup, and ends by drinking green milk straight off the tit.

Is it a metaphor for maturity perhaps?
Post edited December 18, 2017 by DaCostaBR
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tinyE: Well, him and the Porgs. They go from being weary of Chewbacca to hanging out with him. That is the very embodiment of character transition.
Weary or wary? Either way would work (but I haven't seen the movie to know which), but each would seem very different to me.
Post edited December 18, 2017 by thomq
How was the new movie? I was not too into 7 but I love rogue one to death.
Well, I hope the answer to that question is "it was great". I really liked the previous one (watched it very, very recently), and I hope this one is, at least, just as good, as I'll be watching it in about 16 hours or so.
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Breja: Honestly, I kinda wish there was no grand mystery and importance behind Rey's family. Let's not rip-off the original trilogy any more, let's not have another "I am your father".
:D
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tinyE: Fantasy and SciFi are two totally different things.
Of course they are. But the most important difference is that one takes place in caves, the other in ship corridors. ;)
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Barry_Woodward: What if Rey isn't meant to be a Jedi or a Sith, but a Bendu? If the saga is returning to the idea of bringing balance to the Force, it makes sense to introduce an alternative path.
I would like that and yes, it would make sense!
I've lost count how many Star Wars movies there have now been in total, after the first six episodes. I haven't seen any of these newer ones yet, but I guess they will be aired on TV at some point (a few years from now).

EDIT: Well, since the titles says this is SW Ep 8, I guess I haven't seen only two of them then? Damn I am bright, I can count! I could have sworn there have been like 3 or 5 of SW movies after the first six, but maybe there has been just so much talk over one or two movies (and their trailers).

I presume the trailer where everyone was miffed that one of the Empire soldiers in white plastic armor turned out to be afro-american, was Ep 7 then?


I have a similar problem with e.g. Batman movies, I am unsure how many of them have appeared in, say, the last decade, and which exactly of them I've seen so far. Not sure if those Superman vs Spiderman vs Batman movies are counted to that as well.
Post edited December 18, 2017 by timppu
I would have been happy if it was Jedi VIII: the Last Star Wars film, but sadly...