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_Line: To make a good games, regardless of genre, devs may be able to create cinematic or epic situations during gameplay without taking control of the player.
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dtgreene: I might exclude visual novels, where the cutscenes and story are the main attraction.

I would definitely exclude kinetic novels, where the cutscenes and story are the *only* attraction; if you took that away, there wouldn't be anything left! (Then again, one could reasonably argue that kinetic novels aren't games.)

On the other hand, I wouldn't exclude other genres. In particular, I wouldn't exclude RPGs, where the problem of cutscens that take control over the player is widespread (particularly in JRPGs).
i would exclude them too as they are not games
I gave up on new FPS games with Quake 4 and Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault for the reasons the OP mentioned.
That's some years ago now and I expect things have gone both worse and better, AAA games continuing the trend, but there also being indie retro FPS games.
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Breja: It's not a case of "old good, new bad".
Depending on your taste, it is, to an extent. Because mechanics that are popular at a certain time period are more prevalent in games from that era. If you don't like a certain gameplay element that's popular right now, you'll have a hard time finding a new game that suits your taste.

As an example, I hate crafting and skill trees in FPS games. Usually the only reason these mechanics exist is that they force you to grind for items or points or whatever, to artificially stretch out playtime without actually providing content. Either that, or to include "pay to win"-mechanics, where you can skip the grind with $$$. But it's popular, so every other game has it.

I also hate achievements. In general, not exclusively in FPS-games. Whenever you play a modern game, you're constantly pestered by a chime and a message applauding you for "achieving" pointless things like "Opening 4 doors with your butt in 30 seconds while the moon stands in the sign of aqarius and you had a rubber duck equipped". Again, all it does is providing artificial replay value, while disrupting immersion.

The last shooter I played from beginning to end was Bioshock Infinite. Every FPS-game I played after that had something to them that I disliked to such an extent, that I stopped playing the game. Including the newer Wolfenstein-, Farcry- and Doom-games.
That doesn't mean they're objectively bad games, but that newer games usually aren't to my liking. As someone who has 1 minute of playtime on Skyrim, I know that my taste isn't representative for the majority of gamers, but I can't force myself to enjoy stuff I don't, which leaves me with "yes, new = subjectively bad".
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maxleod: If you like old shooters you should try Half Life; there's a story and cutscenes but it won't bother you, they add to the game and "let you play it".
Half-Life was great, back in the day. It was the first game I thought was cinematic. It was very impressive then. Now the word carries something of a negative connotation a lot of the time.
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Inkshock: As an example, I hate crafting and skill trees in FPS games.
I like them as a concept. It's only natural for the protagonist to get stronger as you progress, and crafting and skill trees are a fun way to get there. The problem arises when they get shoved into games where they don't belong, or worse, when they're an excuse to shill microtransactions (e.g. Dead Space 3).
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Inkshock: I also hate achievements. In general, not exclusively in FPS-games.
This is not an issue. You can disable either achievements or just notifications, or just use the offline installers.
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Orkhepaj: Try out Death Stranding , if you want to jump right into the deep waters of modern cinematic games.
That game is horrible , First hour you maybe play 10-15 minutes the rest is just cutscenes. ,Obviously it starts with a cutscene then another cutscene then you move a little and another cutscene , pure trash .

And kojima fans will still shill it as the best thing ever, walking simulator ...
That case doesn't have to do a lot with modern gaming. From what I've seen Kojima was always fond of that. Even the older Metal Gear Solid games are full of long cutscenes and talking sequences. It's just Kojima being Kojima, so no wonder fans would love it.
Post edited January 26, 2022 by Leroux
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Leroux: Even the older Metal Gear Solid games are full of long cutscenes and talking sequences.
Twitch admin thinks Metal Gear Solid 4 is a movie, warns streamer
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Ice_Mage: This is not an issue. You can disable either achievements or just notifications, or just use the offline installers.
This may be true for GOG and I'm very glad that it is, another reason for me to use offline installers only. On other services this is an issue. You can disable notifications on Steam only by disabling Steam Overlay in general. You can also disable them on Playstation, but every update reenables them again.

It's not that I wouldn't play a fantastic game just because it keeps annoying me with popups. It's one of the many puzzle-pieces that in combination make most modern games undesirable for me. Again, this is a matter of taste and it's not a problem, there are more old games available for me to choose from than I can ever play in my entire lifetime. With the modding community it has I could play nothing but Doom 2 for the rest of my life and I'd be perfectly fine with that.
I agree that it's really more a matter of taste than the age of the game. An example of subjectivity, I love all of the Metal Gear games, cinematics and all, but I hated large swaths of Uncharted 3 when the game turned into a lightly interactive movie and just had you do what it wanted along a very prescribed path.
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Enebias: It's not really about "modern" shooters as much as "big budget" shooters.

Speaking only of games released in the last 5 years, you should definitely try DUSK, Amid Evil, Ion Fury and Project Warlock - "retro" inspired shooters at their core but with all the comfort of modern games.
There are also demos for the upcoming HROT and Ultrakill.

Btw, I recommend you to never play the other nu-Wolfenstein, The New Colossus. It's ten time worse in terms of cinematics, there are about 3 hours of gameplay total (to be generous in the estimation), awfully design and inspiring painful cringe every second.
Well, I didn´t mean to say that I only like retro-style shooters. :D

Lately, I bought FEAR and Singularity, for example, which I yet have to play. I have bought a good amount of shooters here on GOG, although I haven´t had the itch for years. And yes, taking into account what you are saying, I think I will stay very far from that New Colossus thing. At least until after I play the 2 Wolfenstein games I already have, and see if I end up enjoying them or not now that I know what to expect.
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Leroux: It's just a different style, open arcade-y FPS vs. linear story-telling FPS, and in both categories there are better and worse games.
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Breja: This. It's not a case of "old good, new bad". There are different styles, and it all depends on what kind of an experience the devs want to create, and whether they a good job of it. Sure, Unreal is great, but that's not because it's old, it's because it's well made. And just as there were crappy shooters in the past too, there are good and crappy shooters now.

A game taking control away from the player and over-relying on cut scenes can be annoying, but likewise if I never again have to look for a "red key" it will be too soon.
The thing is, it was very unexpected to me. I didn´t know such style of shooters existed. I mean, how would I know that there´s a subgenre in the shooter genre that doesn´t let you play the game? A subgenre with as many cinematics as playing time. It makes no sense to me. And I like games to have cinematics. But, come on. What´s a game for? If I wanted that many cinematics I would watch a film.

And when I say "how would I know?" is because the most modern shooters I´ve played (yeeeeeaaaars ago) are FarCry, MOH Pacific Assault, the 2006 Prey, Doom3, etc. Nothing newer than the games of that "era". (I was stuck to an old computer for a good amount of years until recently). So, yeah, I might have kind of judged, unfairly, modern style shooters by the little I played Wolfenstein New Order. But, to be honest, now that I take a better look at other Bethesda games like the Dishonored series, for example, I wonder how spreaded that supermegacinematic thing is. Because by the look of the screenshots, those games might suffer from the same "style".

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JakobFel: You should definitely give the Doom reboots a try. I love Wolfenstein, both old and new, but there's no denying that the modern games are more story-driven and cinematic than the old school ones. However, the Doom reboots don't really suffer that problem, especially in Doom 2016. They're basically old school run-and-gun shooters with modern graphics and some nice, added features that feel right in the spirit of the old school ones.

That said, I don't mind it either way. It just depends on what mood I'm in. If I'm in the mood to just wreck the crap out of my enemies, I'll go back to old school shooters or the Doom reboots. If I want story-driven gameplay, I'll play modern Wolfenstein or check out a Battlefield or COD campaign.

However, in my honest opinion, the FPS genre reached its pinnacle with the classic Starsiege: Tribes. That game was literally flawless, its sequels were also great, and I still haven't gotten over how Hi-Rez butchered the franchise. I wish GOG would contact them to re-release the Tribes series here (they might have to exclude Ascend, which is always online and pretty dead anyways), especially since they already have them as DRM-free freeware on the Tribes site. Re-releasing the entire franchise on Steam and GOG would be something they could do and I'd honestly pay for all of them on both sites only because I love the franchise and want to show them that they should bring it back.
Oh! I would love to have at least Doom 2016 here. Just the OST alone would make the purchase and the feeling of playing it, worth the money and time.

I have some other shooters in my GOG library, and yes, when I decided to start playing Unreal Gold was because I wasn´t on the mood to play anything overcomplicated or engaging or time consuming. I wanted simplicity and I´m enjoying it. :)

Starsiege: Tribes, note taken. :D

I don´t think it is necessary for a shooter to have lots of cinematics to tell a good story and keep the player engaged to it. Max Payne would be a good example despite being a third person game.

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PetrusOctavianus: I gave up on new FPS games with Quake 4 and Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault for the reasons the OP mentioned.
That's some years ago now and I expect things have gone both worse and better, AAA games continuing the trend, but there also being indie retro FPS games.
If the majority of big-gudget shooters or action games are like these new Wolfenstein games, and if indie games are the solution, although it is a good thing to have alternatives, there is a problem in the genre.
Post edited January 26, 2022 by arrua
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Leroux: From what I've seen Kojima was always fond of that. Even the older Metal Gear Solid games are full of long cutscenes and talking sequences. It's just Kojima being Kojima, so no wonder fans would love it.
I played the PS1 Metal Gear Solid so many times and love it, it's still one of my favorite games, this was in 1998~2000.
Played MGS2 on PC a few years after and enjoyed quite a bit.

Tried MGS5 a couple of years ago and didn't play more than 1hour, was bored to hell after that.

I'm not sure if I'm being just grumpy, old and picky or there's just too many choice and a lot of similar games. MGS1 was in many forms quite revolutionary, nowdays many of single player big budget games are nothing more than "boring simulators" for me. Any time I see the dreaded "press A to climb" or "press X to beat the game", it puts me off.
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arrua: The thing is, it was very unexpected to me. I didn´t know such style of shooters existed. I mean, how would I know that there´s a subgenre in the shooter genre that doesn´t let you play the game?
There isn't. You keep talking like one game's poor execution (at least by your description, I have not played the game so can't confirm it) of the "story driven shooter" is what the entire genre is like by definition. It's like saying "how would I know that there´s a subgenre in the shooter genre with poor AI and bad graphics".
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arrua: The thing is, it was very unexpected to me. I didn´t know such style of shooters existed. I mean, how would I know that there´s a subgenre in the shooter genre that doesn´t let you play the game?
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Breja: There isn't. You keep talking like one game's poor execution (at least by your description, I have not played the game so can't confirm it) of the "story driven shooter" is what the entire genre is like by definition. It's like saying "how would I know that there´s a subgenre in the shooter genre with poor AI and bad graphics".
Well, to me there is now. That should tell you how traumatic it was for me to "play" it. :p And yes, games in general have a story to tell. But cinematics, most of the times are meant to make the story progress or to show the player a certain something. Which is great if done well. But when such thing gets in the way, I consider it a problem. And if such a thing is a trend, is it not a subgenre?
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Breja: There isn't. You keep talking like one game's poor execution (at least by your description, I have not played the game so can't confirm it) of the "story driven shooter" is what the entire genre is like by definition. It's like saying "how would I know that there´s a subgenre in the shooter genre with poor AI and bad graphics".
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arrua: Well, to me there is now. That should tell you how traumatic it was for me to "play" it. :p And yes, games in general have a story to tell. But cinematics, most of the times are meant to make the story progress or to show the player a certain something. Which is great if done well. But when such thing gets in the way, I consider it a problem. And if such a thing is a trend, is it not a subgenre?
I thought you were talking about this one game. Anyway, I stand by what I said - a "cinematic" game, like all other "genres" or "subgenres" or whatever can be done well or poorly. Unless you just reject them all on principle, and that's fine, but then that has nothing to do with "bad" games, but simply with what you don't like. And "I don't like thing" =/= "thing bad".
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arrua: Well, to me there is now. That should tell you how traumatic it was for me to "play" it. :p And yes, games in general have a story to tell. But cinematics, most of the times are meant to make the story progress or to show the player a certain something. Which is great if done well. But when such thing gets in the way, I consider it a problem. And if such a thing is a trend, is it not a subgenre?
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Breja: I thought you were talking about this one game. Anyway, I stand by what I said - a "cinematic" game, like all other "genres" or "subgenres" or whatever can be done well or poorly. Unless you just reject them all on principle, and that's fine, but then that has nothing to do with "bad" games, but simply with what you don't like. And "I don't like thing" =/= "thing bad".
I don´t recall saying that the game or the trend were bad (I´m tired XD). That I don´t understand it? Yes. As well as the fact that if big companies aim to develop mostly these kind of shooters,then there is a problem due to lack of variety, for starters. Despite having indie games doing other kind of shooters.
Why do we not have both? =P

There's no reason why to pick one over the other. I enjoy cinematic-shooters like Nu-Wolfenstein and Metro just as much as I do classic style ones like Ion Fury and Prodeus.

At the same time, I still love a good bout of mayhem in ye olde Unreal Tournament and the endless supply of Doom mods. It's amazing and quite a bit sad that the enemy AI in UT is still better than most anything released these days. I mean, what the fuck is up with that?
Post edited January 27, 2022 by Mr.Mumbles