It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionSome questions to ( occasional ) Steam users...(33 posts)solved(33 posts)solved
(33 posts)solved
Pages:
1
2
3
This is my favourite topic
Posted March 28, 2016
I only buy AAA games once every "blue moon", which is why I generally have no need for Steam, Origin, Uplay etc., and feel perfectly content with GOGs games selection. Last year, my only real AAA game was Witcher 3. This year, it looks like it's going to be Dark Souls 3 -- which leads me to my dilemma: Unless GOG performs some sort of miracle, DS3 is likely going to be Steam exclusive on PC. Since I really like the series, I'd like to play it anyway, but there's two problems. 1) I have very little experience with Steam ( and those experiences were mostly bad ) and 2) I'm on a sub-par, limited bandwidth connection. Now, I know some of you like Steam, or at least don't mind using it when necessary, so I'd appreciate if you could answer a few questions.

1. What is the total size of the Steam client download, when you do a fresh install? On their site it says something like 1.5MB, but that's obviously bullshit and only some downloader program, not the whole thing.

2. If any of you bought retail Steam games lately ( still common in some countries, believe it or not ), could you install the game from disc? Did you have to download the whole thing anyway, or at least a significant portion?

3. If part of the game has to be downloaded, is there an easy way to make a back-up, so it's not necessary to download it again in the future?

4. Is it possible to deactivate most client and game updates, and only activate them when needed/desired?

5. In the past I frequently read posts where people defended Steam and its "offline mode". Is it really as good and simple to use as people make it out to be, or are you still forced to connect the client ( sometimes? ) if you just want to play your games?

I think that's all... Basically I'd just really like to play the game once it's out, with as little hassle as somehow possible. Thanks in advance for any helpful input! :)


Update: Lots of thanks to everyone who took the time to write a response to my questions! So far I learned: 1) There's at least five different answers, to each of my questions. 2) Someone will always start fighting, whenever you mention Steam on the GOG forum. But most importantly 3) If what you guys say is true, I may be able to play this game after all, without too much trouble.

Seriously, thanks again. I might post another update here, once I have the game and know what works and what doesn't. Maybe it will help others who are in the same situation about DS3 or another recent game. Ideally, I hope it will work mostly like the retail version of Witcher 3. I was able to install the game from disc, and only needed to download the patches. Of course, that was GOG, not Steam, but here's hoping...

Oh, and I'm not sure which post to mark as "solution", since many posts contained useful information. Maybe I can mark more than one, or I'll just have to pick one.
Post edited March 29, 2016 by CharlesGrey
This question / problem has been solved by sanfuegimage
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey: 3. If part of the game has to be downloaded, is there an easy way to make a back-up, so it's not necessary to download it again in the future?
One of the good thing with steam, is that you can do an efficient backup or clean reinstall of the client whilst keeping the games you have already downloaded, you just have to :
- copy the steamapps folder (not sure of the name, but it s the folder with all your game folders)
- paste it in you new clean top steam directory along the steam.exe
- run the steam.exe, it will update and rebuild your "steam system".
avatar
CharlesGrey: 4. Is it possible to deactivate most client and game updates, and only activate them when needed/desired?
IIRC, client updates are blocking (not big, but quite frequent). Game updates are pausable, but most of the time you have to finish the update before launching it (for the not drm free at least).
avatar
CharlesGrey: 5. In the past I frequently read posts where people defended Steam and its "offline mode". Is it really as good and simple to use as people make it out to be, or are you still forced to connect the client ( sometimes? ) if you just want to play your games?
I believe JMch has done some investigation the last time I followed a debate about that. I think it's something like "you can start your client in offline mode, but after 6 months it will a̶s̶k̶ (edit: request) you to connect if you want to ever play your games again". Which trumps the definition of 'offline mode' at a very subversive level.
Post edited March 28, 2016 by Potzato
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
Potzato: IIRC, client updates are blocking (not big, but quite frequent). Game updates are pausable, but most of the time you have to finish the update before launching it (for the not drm free at least).
not with all games - most of the early access games i have, have different builds available - often marked along the lines of "bleeding edge" or "stable" etc. the game only updates if the build (or a dlc etc) updates. so it IS possible (with certain games) to remain without updates unless you choose otherwise.


Edit: this actually applies to a lot more games than just betas actually - looking at my library
avatar
Potzato: I believe JMch has done some investigation the last time I followed a debate about that. I think it's something like "you can start your client in offline mode, but aftr 6 months it will ask you to connect". Which trumps the definition of 'offline mode' at a very subversive level.
you can also use a command console thingy to d/l your games without the client. its in this thread (somewhere):
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/steam_games_you_can_play_without_the_steam_client
Post edited March 28, 2016 by Sachys
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
Sachys: most of the early access games
Uncharted territory in my book ;)
Post edited March 28, 2016 by Potzato
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey:
I can't answer to all questions but here is what knowledge i can share with you:

2. I bought 8 games on retail since 2013 (most of them got uninstalled after i finished them although 3 of them are always present in my HDD since i don't want to mess with Steam client - i've been in offline mode since i installed the last game i bought). The answer here is that you can install the whole game from the DVD and the only data that is downloaded from the servers are the patches.

3. Yes, there is built-in backup system so you don't have to download/ install a game again (you can choose where you're gonna keep the backup eg. DVD/ multiples DVDs etc) although i don't know how it works. I just didn't care enough for it to be honest.

4. My desktop PC is strictly an offline machine used for gaming & music. Obviously i don't receive any updates but as far as i remember, it's optional to receive the update at least regarding the games.

5. My Steam client has been offline for two years+ without even connecting my PC to the internet. I just ran Skyrim, Dishonored & Half-Life 2 and it didn't ask me anything (every time i start the client it tells me if i want to go in Offline mode or Online mode, i choose the first and the client starts normally but it doesn't connect to the Steam servers) so i'm 100% sure that it doesn't want to connect anywhere.
Post edited March 28, 2016 by Vythonaut
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey: 1. What is the total size of the Steam client download, when you do a fresh install? On their site it says something like 1.5MB, but that's obviously bullshit and only some downloader program, not the whole thing.
It a little over 100 MB give or take.
avatar
CharlesGrey: 2. If any of you bought retail Steam games lately ( still common in some countries, believe it or not ), could you install the game from disc? Did you have to download the whole thing anyway, or at least a significant portion?
It my experience using the few games I have on disc, most of the game is installed via disc unless a huge patch had been released or free content etc, which that is downloaded. However some patches can cause to disc to not work during a re-install. Had that happen with one of the total war games, though that may be some specific issue with that game.
avatar
CharlesGrey: 3. If part of the game has to be downloaded, is there an easy way to make a back-up, so it's not necessary to download it again in the future?
Yes. Steam has a built in back up feature. You can also just copy the Steamapps folder. Like Galaxy, Steam will compare the version you have to what is on their servers and download what is different.
avatar
CharlesGrey: 4. Is it possible to deactivate most client and game updates, and only activate them when needed/desired?
Not really. You can stop updates from happening generally as far as games, but when you try to play the game Steam will want to update it.
avatar
CharlesGrey: 5. In the past I frequently read posts where people defended Steam and its "offline mode". Is it really as good and simple to use as people make it out to be, or are you still forced to connect the client ( sometimes? ) if you just want to play your games?
Eh it works but has been known to be buggy... wanting you to check in after weeks/months of being offline.
Post edited March 28, 2016 by BKGaming
Posted March 28, 2016
1. The downloader itself is 1.5MBs. The download will expand into a 100MBs+ as the downloader works it's magic. Then the client will expand to one freaking gigabyte when fully installed. Now in 2016, I don't know how big it is, but it isn't a stretch that it's already 2GBs what's with all of these big picture and in home streaming gimmicks that they think will ever work.
2. I dunno. I wouldn't do something as wasteful as buying a 'retail' and 'Steam' version at the same time.
3. If it's a part of a downloaded game, I'm not sure honestly. However, I think the progress of a game's download is determined by an appmanifest file in the base steamapps folder, which is inside the Steam folder. You need the appmanifest file as well as the common folder (for downloaded games) and the downloads folder (for downloads) in order to keep your game installation status across devices.
4. Game updates can be deactivated, but they're not the default option, because "look, shiny automatic updates, people!" It's even made blatant in the downloader page. As for client updates however, you either take them, or you live in offline mode... which is...
5. Offline mode is just a broken excuse to solve the biggest problem of Steam. Basically, you launch Steam in a mode that makes it think it is offline. As many reports would tell you, yes, it would time out in your face, forcing you to log into your account again to continue to play. Not a real nice treat. It's made blatant in the installer page as well, with internet being a requirement. Offline mode still requires that you launch Steam followed by the game. If the process was as easy as double click a game without the client to play, I wouldn't be here on GOG.

That's it for the day. You want my input on that matter? Pass on Dark Souls 3. It's not worth anyone's efforts or time to deal with such buggy, subpar software, no matter how many shills shill for it. Even if for an installment to your favorite franchise. Just buy it on consoles (if there are ports for it). Alternatively, if you still insist on buying it on the PC platform, slap a crack on the game. But since this is a new game, I'm not sure how cracks would go for it. So in essence, just pass on it. GOG might pick it up one day, who knows?
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
PookaMustard: 1. The downloader itself is 1.5MBs. The download will expand into a 100MBs+ as the downloader works it's magic. Then the client will expand to one freaking gigabyte when fully installed. Now in 2016, I don't know how big it is, but it isn't a stretch that it's already 2GBs what's with all of these big picture and in home streaming gimmicks that they think will ever work.
2. I dunno. I wouldn't do something as wasteful as buying a 'retail' and 'Steam' version at the same time.
3. If it's a part of a downloaded game, I'm not sure honestly. However, I think the progress of a game's download is determined by an appmanifest file in the base steamapps folder, which is inside the Steam folder. You need the appmanifest file as well as the common folder (for downloaded games) and the downloads folder (for downloads) in order to keep your game installation status across devices.
4. Game updates can be deactivated, but they're not the default option, because "look, shiny automatic updates, people!" It's even made blatant in the downloader page. As for client updates however, you either take them, or you live in offline mode... which is...
5. Offline mode is just a broken excuse to solve the biggest problem of Steam. Basically, you launch Steam in a mode that makes it think it is offline. As many reports would tell you, yes, it would time out in your face, forcing you to log into your account again to continue to play. Not a real nice treat. It's made blatant in the installer page as well, with internet being a requirement. Offline mode still requires that you launch Steam followed by the game. If the process was as easy as double click a game without the client to play, I wouldn't be here on GOG.

That's it for the day. You want my input on that matter? Pass on Dark Souls 3. It's not worth anyone's efforts or time to deal with such buggy, subpar software, no matter how many shills shill for it. Even if for an installment to your favorite franchise. Just buy it on consoles (if there are ports for it). Alternatively, if you still insist on buying it on the PC platform, slap a crack on the game. But since this is a new game, I'm not sure how cracks would go for it. So in essence, just pass on it. GOG might pick it up one day, who knows?
most of what you have said is hogwash , there are certain conditions where offline mode breaks but no software is 100% perfect, i have got a laptop running steam in offline mode for almost a year now with no issues , make sure you dont opt into in beta for the client only that causes frequent updates.

As long as you dont connect at all after installing the game you wont be forced to update the game .

On the retail part 99% of the time you will have to download some extra bits mostly day 1 patches , but do some research as i have heard sometimes the retail pack just contains a steam code and a steam installer in the disc as was in the case of mgs 5.
thankfully for steam if you have say 80% of the game files it checks and downloads only the rest not all of it again.

My steam client folder size excluding steam apps <game data folder> userdata <screenshots + saves> folder is 675 mb and its been installed since 3 years.


I would love to see how gog galaxy bloats up when it implements fully all of the standard features steam has and at the sametime support over 3000 games + community + stats + multiplayer
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey: 1. What is the total size of the Steam client download, when you do a fresh install? On their site it says something like 1.5MB, but that's obviously bullshit and only some downloader program, not the whole thing.
You're right. It's about 100MB to download Steam - 1.5MB is just to download the installation program that downloads and installs Steam. I don't have a fresh install to double-check, but it's somewhere around 300-500MB of disk space after installing. It'll grow a bit after that because of cache and manifests, but not by much.
2. If any of you bought retail Steam games lately ( still common in some countries, believe it or not ), could you install the game from disc? Did you have to download the whole thing anyway, or at least a significant portion?
I don't know what most games are doing lately, but it's entirely possible for the disc to install the entire game so that Steam needs to download only patches. But that's up to the publisher, not Steam. The publisher decides how much of the game to put on the disc and Steam simply adds what's missing.
3. If part of the game has to be downloaded, is there an easy way to make a back-up, so it's not necessary to download it again in the future?
Steam has a build-in backup facility. It's extremely awkward to use, is slow, you can't restore from backups unless connected to Steam's servers and logged in, and restoring from backup triggers an update which may get in the way of actually playing the game. But it's possible to manually back up games and avoid all these problems, because Steam installs everything into nice self-contained directories. Just remember to back up the appropriate appmanifest_*.acf file too.
4. Is it possible to deactivate most client and game updates, and only activate them when needed/desired?
I don't believe you can disable client updates (I could be wrong about that). Steam will check for and download client updates as they are available. After downloading an update Steam will give you an option to restart the client, but you don't need to. Updates are applied when the client is started. I can't say for sure because they happen silently, but I believe Client updates tend to be rather small downloads; not something to worry about.

Disabling game updates is a complicated affair, but for the most part you can do it. The simplest and most effective way is to limit all updates so that they happen only during a specific hour each day when your computer is never running. You can also manually disable updates for each individual game, but that's impractical and surprisingly unreliable.
5. In the past I frequently read posts where people defended Steam and its "offline mode". Is it really as good and simple to use as people make it out to be, or are you still forced to connect the client ( sometimes? ) if you just want to play your games?
Offline mode's kind of notorious for being unavailable most of the time unless you're connected to the Internet, which defeats the purpose. But I've encountered some people online who claim never to have had this problem. Maybe you'll be lucky. I believe they improved offline mode's availability quite a bit somewhere around 2014, but I still have trouble trusting it.

If offline mode works reliably for you then you should be able to play any installed game without a hitch, unless the game itself prevents offline play for some reason. The only things you won't be able to do are install games, apply updates or restore backups.

---

The way I answered might make it sound bad, but overall I thing you'll probably be alright.
Post edited March 28, 2016 by Barefoot_Monkey
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey: snip
I have an 80gb monthly cap. I keep Steam as long as I'm online and never reach it between downloading updates and downloading new titles. But I do have to plan what I download a month in advance typically.

If your cap is higher then you're good to go. If it's lower then definitely supplement downloads with retail discs. That's not an option for me as a trader.
Posted March 28, 2016
low rated
avatar
liquidsnakehpks: most of what you have said is hogwash
I've been using Steam far longer than you think, and I believe I can tell you that you're the one saying the hogwash here. So back away, now.
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey: 5. In the past I frequently read posts where people defended Steam and its "offline mode". Is it really as good and simple to use as people make it out to be, or are you still forced to connect the client ( sometimes? ) if you just want to play your games?
People have answered most of the other questions, so here is what we know so far about Steam's offline mode.
StingingVelvet had done six months in Georgia (the country, not the state) during which he had no internet at all. Steam worked fine in offline mode for the whole six months.
Other people had Steam in offline mode, but did have internet access. Steam was asking to update every two weeks or so, which was about how often Steam was being updated for everyone else as well.
OldFatGuy had started a computer that he fully updated then completely disconnected from the internet. I do not recall if he ever reported back on Steam's behavior or not.

Most likely case is that Steam's "Offline Mode" is similar to Skype's "Invisible". Steam will connect online if it finds internet access, but you will not appear online, nor will it show data about what you are playing etc. But if there is internet access, it will check for updates and so on. It should still work if it can't find internet, and it shouldn't ask to update if it doesn't know about any updates.

P.S. I think that SteamCMD can also be used to play the games instead of just downloading them, but haven't tested that yet.
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
CharlesGrey: 5. In the past I frequently read posts where people defended Steam and its "offline mode". Is it really as good and simple to use as people make it out to be, or are you still forced to connect the client ( sometimes? ) if you just want to play your games?
avatar
JMich: People have answered most of the other questions, so here is what we know so far about Steam's offline mode.
StingingVelvet had done six months in Georgia (the country, not the state) during which he had no internet at all. Steam worked fine in offline mode for the whole six months.
Other people had Steam in offline mode, but did have internet access. Steam was asking to update every two weeks or so, which was about how often Steam was being updated for everyone else as well.
OldFatGuy had started a computer that he fully updated then completely disconnected from the internet. I do not recall if he ever reported back on Steam's behavior or not.

Most likely case is that Steam's "Offline Mode" is similar to Skype's "Invisible". Steam will connect online if it finds internet access, but you will not appear online, nor will it show data about what you are playing etc. But if there is internet access, it will check for updates and so on. It should still work if it can't find internet, and it shouldn't ask to update if it doesn't know about any updates.

P.S. I think that can also be used to play the games instead of just downloading them, but haven't tested that yet. <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_questions_to_occasional_steam_users/post12" class="link_arrow"></a></div> There are people claiming to prevent steam phoning home even when "offline" and force updates or mess things up, the user can [url=http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17973294&amp;postcount=5]set the firewall to always block steam.exe

That way you can unblock steam once you are comfortable enough to let it go online and update. (when not on a meter or limited internet)
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
liquidsnakehpks: most of what you have said is hogwash
avatar
PookaMustard: I've been using Steam far longer than you think, and I believe I can tell you that you're the one saying the hogwash here. So back away, now.
Literally everything in your post was wrong.


For OP:

1. Something like 600MB, the more you use it, it will increase.
2. I only bought one game on disc with a Steam key, there was no useful data on the disc (Rocksmith) and had to do a full install from Steam online.
3. In the top menu, click on "Steam" then "Backup and Restore Games", then follow the backup wizard. Never used it myself, there's no point for me atm. I have unlimited bandwidth.
4. Absolutely not. Soon as you run any game it is patched to the latest version. In the past it may have looked like that was not a requirement, but it always has been, and the wording in the game client a year or so ago was changed to reflect the fact.
5. Depends on how the game is using the Steamworks DRM. Some might require you to always be online, in "online mode", others may require having been authenticated on that particular PC at least once. That means installing and running the game at least one time while online. Some games ar even DRM free and don't check any of that. DS3 won't be one of those.

Set Steam to auto sign in and minimize to tray at launch, and you'll barely notice it is there when you click the game icon to play your game. Just right click and close the icon in the system tray after you are finished playing.
Post edited March 28, 2016 by BrandeX
Posted March 28, 2016
avatar
PookaMustard: I've been using Steam far longer than you think, and I believe I can tell you that you're the one saying the hogwash here. So back away, now.
avatar
BrandeX: Literally everything in your post was wrong.
Wrong? They're what I observed in those five years. And I'm very certain they're right. The client expands to 1GBs. Check. You need the appmanifests to move your games (downloaded or not) without having Steam do the process of 'uh, reinstall, verify integrity' stuff, check. Offline mode is broken as I say it is. Check. Updates are the way I describe. Check. Do tell me, did you use a different Steam than I did? Mine is Valve's Steam. And I'm certain of all what I'm saying, also because I personally checked all of these myself.
Pages:
1
2
3
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSome questions to ( occasional ) Steam users...(33 posts)solved(33 posts)solved
(33 posts)solved