Again, assuming there is a tool for that. I'm not sure if someone who can scan and identify the correct register they are looking for would qualify as a script kiddie, since that would mean they could write their own tools. But best to ask someone in the infosec community what a script kiddie is.

Hm, so you're saying you could make a decades old car being able to stop its engine when it halts (like at a traffic light for example) and start again as soon as the clutch is pressed, even though said car never had any kind of ECU on it.

Yes, there was backlash for a specific implementation of Galaxy (even people who like Galaxy objected to that approach). Not a backlash for Galaxy. I assume you can understand that distinction.

I suddenly get the impression that you're overestimating the complexity of the task. You don't need to know what registers are being used if you have the source code. That's quite possible, even with my currently limited knowledge of how engines work. And there's nothing to keep you from making an ECU or even taking an existing one and frakensteining it in. ATMega 328P-PUs are less than 5 bucks a pop for you to learn and experiment with. However, that'd also be a useless modification, due to gas usage on (re)startup. I'm more interested in the motion of galaxy. I don't want to use galaxy, and galaxy is slowly creeping in on people. This is my problem, this is where the backlash is coming from. Your average shmuck here can't really complain about the existence of galaxy any more than they can complain about The Witcher 3 being sold here. The problem is, it has become an invasive feature.

No. Having source code without knowing the language (since that's what you claim script kiddies could do) wouldn't do any help. And I guess you think script kiddies have a degree of competency, in which case though they wouldn't be script kiddies.

Considering most modern cars do include that stop/start functionality, I would say that the gas usage would go down. Engine doesn't completely stop. Current numbers seem to be in the 3%-10%.

This is where your backlash comes from.

Hm, I do seem to recall quite a few people complaining about certain games been sold here. Or are you saying they wouldn't be complaining about CD Projekt's games, like GWENT?

For some it has, for others it hasn't. And since whether Galaxy is invasive or not is subjective, this can't have any kind of resolution, other than educating people why it is (or isn't) invasive.

I've watch script kiddies modify programs without knowledge of the language. It's really not hard. You look things that might be what you want to change, change it, then see if it breaks. If it still works, but differently, you extrapolate upon those changes to get what you want. That's how script kiddies work. They can look at code, see something like: and try changing either of those 25s (the one in the code and the one in the comments) to something like 0, and BAM, whatever annoying format that included all those newlines is now gone. Or maybe it was a crappy game that refreshed screens by printing out 25 newlines, but they elongated that console window, so they need to change it to something greater than their console window's size, so they throw in 100, and, viola, it works. Script kiddies specialize in that sort of thing. Which is usually why they then slowly become competent. Ah, but that's not what you specified. Now, as for controlling the RPMs for that, it usually boils down to airflow control, if my random memory of a random youtube video i viewed a random number of years ago is correct. If not, I could look up a more specific application. The general idea is, the car has to sync the fuel flow rate to the airflow, thus if you control the airflow, you can control the fuelflow, which in turn controls the RPMs (or you could just control the fuel flow directly). This can be controlled with parts you inject between other parts, or make your own. Still, odds are, the ATMega 328P-PU can play with this. There are some types of people who complain that the sky is blue, and that they don't like the color of blue. It's a bit different from people worrying about gog going the ways of DRM. For GWENT, I, personally, have mixed feelings. It is a DRMed game, but it wouldn't be possible without DRM. Given that, though, I don't think it was wise of them to make and release a DRM game here, especially given the obvious coflict of interest with galaxy. They have to be completely oblivious to their primary competitor's methodology to not see how that looks to those of us trying to avoid their competitor. It went from non-default to default without any warning, explanation, or anything else shy of some small print under the installers on the individual download pages. That's pretty invasive. I'm not really sure how anyone in particular questions that. As for galaxy itself, outside of that feature of the galaxy project, I don't know. It was pretty buggy, and I didn't like it, so I removed it. I forget when and why I installed it (most likely either because gog downloader is deprecated and i wanted to see if there was a feature that'd keep my offline installers updated automatically, or it was when it got bundled with crypt of the necrodancer). When all this started going down, I had to go back through my backup script that I had written, and check to see if it was downloading galaxy installers. Sure enough, it did. Now, I had to go around trying to figure out some way of figuring out which ones had the bundle and which didn't (the forums had to tell me, since gog didn't announce it) and redownload all those games. Fortunately, gogrepo solves that issue out of the box.

Most script kiddies don't bother with source code, they just use exploit toolkits and ready-made scripts. (source)

Different definitions. A script kiddie cannot become competent, else they wouldn't be called a script kiddie. But yes, that's how one starts modifying things by themselves (which means they are not script kiddies).

Check the start-stop system. Engine does stop working (you cannot hear it turning and it doesn't produce any emissions) but the systems that require the engine to be on (like power steering for example) still work.

Well, the sky isn't blue, but that's a different discussion.

Hm, maybe it's not a different discussion. It just depends on what one means by "the sky is blue" or "gog is going the ways of DRM". Different definitions and different views describing the same thing from a different perspective.

Ah, yes, I forget that not all people read the forum. I'm not going to go through the whole thing of whether or not posting something in the forum is the proper way to announce something or not.

I do. The difference between Galaxy installers and classic installers is ~140MB. You can still install the game without Galaxy, and (assuming you check one tickbox once) you don't even have to uncheck Galaxy each and every time. But people do like to blindly click on things without checking what they do, yet dislike a client created exactly so they can blindly click on things without checking what they do.

As I said, GOG did announce it, in the forums.

Yes. By using Galaxy's API.

It may be so, but that doesn't detract from the fact they're capable.

Most scripts require some sort of modification. The above sourced wikipedia definition fits mine. It specifically states "lack the ability to write sophisticated programs or exploits," implying that non-sophisticated program and/or exploit writing capability still falls under the definition. If it is still running, it produces emissions. A low RPM is still moves, even if you don't hear it. However, the system you mention actually does have combustion stop, which means the engine is indeed completely off. For non-electric motors, maintaining hydraulic systems and such requires an electric system to be installed for this functionality to even be possible, to quote the wikipedia article. This is not magic, and it is feasible, especially since money isn't factored into this. We've already been down the road of different definitions of DRM. Fact of the matter is, regardless of the definition, the telltale signs of pretty much everyone's defintion of DRM are slowly being approached. For some people, the line has been crossed, for others it's merely being approached. Either way, unless we have already passed it (making this discussion moot), we're approaching it. Key steps towards employing DRM are being taken. Whether the DRM never comes out or not, we don't know. However, as we have an example of DRM being sold on gog (via GWENT), the client through which it's implemented is the hot topic, as well as the fact that the company has violated trust by earmarking said client in, it's quite reasonable to be questioning what's going on, despite words, since actions reasonably appear to be in conflict with the words. You don't have to. They announce everything else through the news feed, especially major sales and additions to the site that get posted at the very top of the page with a huge banner or more. You would imagine that, especially since they did that very thing constantly before to advertise gog galaxy's existance, that they would've in turn used that method to notify us of the major change. They didn't. That'd be like me making a bunch of announcements about products on facebook, then when removing a product I announce that bit of information in a skype group. If you establish a news source, use it for your major announcements. When I can do that (mindlessly click without looking) without additional software, why would i be happy with additional software to do what I can already do? Plus, galaxy's still in the classic installers, just not the installer for galaxy itself. If i install galaxy, classic installed games will suddenly be galaxy compatible. So, in effect, i'm still getting galaxy regardless. That said, since it still works without the galaxy client, i'm placid over it. However, I do consider it bloat and invasive. Given the fact that the installers were made for blindly clicking through in the first place, i figured I could trust them. That was kind of the contract we agree to when we're buying with gog: gog provides game in way that would work with a reasonably modern system out of the box, and they get money in return. Galaxy is not a necessary part of that. I'm not adverse to galaxy itself existing, or it's API existing. I just don't want it on my system. gogrepo would still exist if galaxy didn't: it'd just crawl the site for the information instead, which was what I was using before gogrepo.

I'll ask you again to ask anyone of the infosec community what the definition of a script kiddie is.

And again, you say that if you have a car and you can legally do that, you know how to do that. I'm saying that is not always the case. Do take a bit more look, then tell me whether it is probable or not (not possible, because the monkeys writing Shakespeare are also possible, just highly improbable).

"If I can execute the game on an air gapped isolated, era-relevant machine that I have in a bunker, the game is DRM-Free". GWENT is the one that does not fit the above definition of DRM-Free (yet?).
My definition is weird, since LensLok and StarForce do not count (for me) as DRM, but that line is still not close in my eyes.

And here's the point. You feel GOG has violated your trust in what you thought GOG stood for. And yes, breach of trust will push one to question everything the breacher has done before or is doing since. Be that selling DLCs, be that selling indie games, be that adding regional prices or anything else. But not everyone thinks Galaxy is breaking their trust on GOG. How many don't think that? No idea. But GOG should know that.

You mean like game removals? I think I do recall seeing a couple of news announcements about them, but more often than not they are only announced in the forum. Weird, I don't recall that many people complaining that those are not announced through the news feed or an e-mail. Guess people think Galaxy is more important than games, who knew.

I'm sorry, that's like saying that when you get a pdf, you get Adobe Reader. The games do include files needed for Galaxy to recognize them, but they do not include Galaxy.

And again, an issue of trust. I may be in the minority, but no matter what I install or where I got the installer from, I always check the installer's options. Guess I don't trust as easy as you.

So you're saying that if Galaxy was a necessary part for games to work with a reasonably modern system out of the box, you wouldn't mind Galaxy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

I do not recognize infosec, or any single organization for that matter, as a sole definer of terms, unless the term is highly limited in context (such as a term used in a specific video game exclusively). My argument is that it's possible, and it's responsible. But, hey, let's go down the probable line, because I can just give you whatever you want. The far simplest way to do it, although it's expensive (and you said money's not an issue, iirc), is an EV conversion.

https://dgit.com/10-awesome-ev-classic-car-conversions-8592/

Looks like it has been done. I did a little reading, and it's not even that difficult to do, which we can buy the tools for, i guess.

But, if you still want combustion shut down, you can engine swap for a modern engine that already does all this. And if it doesn't do this automatically, you can microcontrol it in there with the parts that are capable. I've actually known people who've done these kinds of engine swaps. Local racer people. Last time i checked it does not, so you are correct, thus a DRM game has been sold on gog, by that definition. Lenslok, I too, would be iffy on. As for StarForce, they have multiple methods of protection. Which methods are you referring to? Me, personally, StarForce Disc is DRM, and I think it may, in some circumstances, violate the definition above, since it's heavily dependent on device drivers, which often results in frequent complaining of legal customers, which is one of the major reasons for switching to digital DRM. Ironically, it seems it may even be easier to pirate it than deal with the protection method legally.

As for not crossing that line, that's not the point. It is approaching it, and we have one example of it crossing, so we know they are unprincipled on this matter (since it is no longer a principle if it is violated even once). Due to the lack of principality, the trust already having been violated in one case, and with the slow development of DRM providing components, it's quite reasonable to be questioning, and with hostility. Exactly. Although i chose how i view gog, gog also chooses how it presents itself. It openly lied and directly went against it's own word, and more than once. This means the word should not be trusted. If a game is removed, it remains available to previous purchasers. If people didn't buy it, it's reasonable to see that the average person is not aware of what was removed. In fact, I was very surprised when i found out that Duke Nukem was removed. Since my downloads were still there (they didn't violate their agreement with me), I view it as a right of gog to remove something. This is accepted behavior of any storefront. I'm not, at any point, guaranteed the right to purchase a particular product at any point. I do think it's a bit seedy to announce openly that a game is available, but then shuffle it under the rug when it leaves. I think i will add that to my list of complaints. Very different, actually. Installers and games aren't meant to run with galaxy. It's an addon feature. Presumably, these games attempt to connect to galaxy, and continue on failure. This can be changed at the drop of an update or "hotfix." pdf files are explicitly made for the purpose of interfacing with adobe reader. That which is included with a pdf file is, with exception of unrendered comments sections and such, necessary for usage. Games on gog, not so much. I expect trustability from those who take my money. I guess I have gog to thank for teaching me a lesson in a manageable way. I could understand the requirement, then, but I would also expect a warning, given it influences software other than specific bits, and is essentially an earmark to those programs. For example, we accept when, say, X2: The Threat, Morrowind, Oblivion, etc has a configuration menu that starts before we actually load the game, we consider that acceptable. Given that it is also 3rd party, I expect a warning that the third party executable is required. Obviously, the 3rd party executable requirement is a dealbreaker, but I expect the warning.

Yeah well, then you'll just different definitions of words than everybody else...

No, because Gwent is not sold. It's free.

I've actually pointed out how my own definition fits the wikipedia definiton above. No chance of that. infosec and other such organizations are not sole authorities of their field, nor are they definers of exclusive definitions. Alright. I'll give you that. But it's still distributed through gog.

EDIT: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/01/parson_not_dumbest_virus_writer/

There's an oldie, but goldie. Kid hex-edits a virus to do what he wanted to do. Considered one of the most infamous script kiddies, apparently.

If you're going to call me a hipster and trust me, I as far away from being a hipster as anyone can me, I'm going to call you a "damn brit" and remind you we kicked your ass back in the late 1700's.

I'd make fun of your teeth too but mine aren't much better.

:)
We really need to start pointing folks to the support ticket system. I can count three threads within the last month or two about this.

edit: Or Mantis I guess: http://mantis.gog.com

When in a programming context: script kiddies use and/or make scripts rather than actually taking the time to learn a programming language. This came from people referring to HTML and/or Javascript as programming. As things like PHP and and other interpreted languages grew more complex and useful, this has relatively lost its meaning.

But, even if you threw this definition out and relied on the infosec definition, anyone whose even gotten the basic willpower (as in, not afraid of the magical black box) to try googling and using copy and paste can perform what I have suggested. True, but it still fulfills the requirements of your request. A car is not an engine. You can indeed do all of these things, but the simplest and laziest answers are the ones I provided, since I spent no more than 10 minutes on google. If i'm going to do this for real, money becomes an item, and i'm going to do alot more research, including whether or not it'd be cost effective at all, or if i'm going to spend more money than percieved gains.

The basis of the argument comes from abstraction: I don't have to understand how every part of the car works: just enough knowledge to know what i want to modify. Let's say, for another example, that I wanted to modify the printf function in the stdlib so \n always prints out "\r\n" instead. I could modify printf directly by learning how it works, I could also find out what functions it calls and modify that. Or, I could even drop right into printf's declarations and check each param to detect whether or not they're a string and, if so, replace all instances of \n" with "\r\n". Odds are, i'm going to find what function it calls (fprintf most likely, which i could probably get away with sticking to modifying the format string, or hijacking whatever the system's "write" function is).

And, yes, i'm well aware that the escapes are turned into single characters at compile time. I'm just short-handing it. Perhaps then we learned that backlash worked? I'm sure people dropped their opinions back then. But, hey, it's not like the history of other websites isn't repeating itself here. Every time someone says "optional," it becomes mandatory, "because we don't have the resources to maintain the traditional method, and only a few people use it anyway," and usually it's difficult or impossible for the average customer to even identify whether or not either of the arguements are true. Seems to be the history of every website that has it's own download manager, conveniently. At some point, one has to be able to trust words. If you make trust of words earned to start, you won't get very far with anything. Why even bother registering with gog if i don't start off with the assumption of truth, for example? I could've just missed or forgotten that one. At that point, that's my own fault. The format was designed by Adobe for Adobe reader. Just because microsoft's docx and such can be read by other programs doesn't mean they weren't designed to be read exclusively by microsoft word. The same can easily be said for pretty much every executable format that gets turned into a "rom file" as well. Because trust must exist, and it is buildable. This is the insidious part of betrayal: the nature of relationships of any kind is trust, even that of enemies. They act and react in predictable ways, thus you expect them to continue acting that way. Why take wedding vows if you do not trust the words of your spouse to be? Typically, what you do, is you take words, watch actions, and if they match, you accept that as trustworthy (thus building trust). They come implied. I do, really, wish they'd list which games use dosbox, however. There are certain games i'm more likely to buy for using dosbox, while other games i'm less likely to buy if they use dosbox. That said, the compatibility layers are reasonably necessary. I can't buy a gameboy game from GOG and expect it to run without a gameboy or an emulator of some kind. The same thing applies to DOS games. Certain links and grammar in this post lead me to believe otherwise. I stand corrected. As it's not even a centralized authority, it makes it even harder to take seriously definitions set forth, since everyone would have their own definition, with certain members having repeated definitions established by individual centralized authorities (like their professors). I was just about to say, on that. I picked him up on the annecdote that he was not only classified as such, but also pulled off hex-editing the thing. I don't think i could've stumbled on an even better example, outside of the skids i've personally had to deal with (my personal favorite is this guy who went around using RATs [i learned the term from him, since back in the day we just generically called them trojans, since they were much fewer back in the early 2000s], and he had a VB program working he had found, or something, and he could shut down certain chatrooms with it, but he'd constantly have to restart it since it'd crash on him constantly [he would skype call with me while doing this stuff as i tried to siphon little bits of data from him to hopefully catch him]).