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dirtyharry50: You are forgetting that he talked once upon a time about releasing a public demo at the same time as the super demo for backers. Of course, the was just Cleve talking out his ass again. The release of a super demo for backers did not anyway prevent him from releasing a public demo at the same time.

In any event, yeah there are plusses to releasing a longer demo with more test coverage possible as a result. He should have just said he was doing this instead of trying to use it to placate backers he'd let down with it and then change his mind about it later while saying the reverse publicly and then after the fact telling anyone who believed him they were severely autistic. lol

Good luck trying to defend the likes of Cleve. I wish you the best. You've really got your work cut out for you. :D
I'm not forgetting anything, I thought the idea of a paying customer-exclusive demo stupid back then. If he really intended to do it and changed his mind, I say he did the right choice. Had he gone through, I'd have shaken my head and gone on. I'm waiting for the complete game anyway.
If you backed this to get your own little exclusive early access backer-only content, well, tough luck. It's never been the point for me.
All this "backer-only" supposed incentives are idiotic anyway, I'm helping to fund a product that would otherwise never be released, and in the same move securing my physical copy, not stroking my ego by clamoring about early access or my name in the credits.

Edit :
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dirtyharry50: You'd have to ask Cleve about the concept of a "Paying customer-exclusive demo" because that was his idea and his promise to backers, not mine. See the quote in an earlier post above please.
That may be, but it's you defending it and throwing a fit because you feel somehow betrayed that this demo isn't in the end exclusive to you, me and the few other crazies.
Post edited November 04, 2013 by Erich_Zann
Tidings huh? How about a vote for your funniest statements? I nominate:

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dirtyharry50: But I have quoted what he said explicitly and yes, you can't argue with that. Well, you can and you do by creating your own reality I guess.
Grimoire will never be a finished game worth playing and Cleve Blakemore has stolen money.

This is how it stands today and based on 17+ years of bullshit odds are it isn't going to change.

Retracting my other comments about this vaporware, it's bug infested super demo, etc.
Post edited January 03, 2014 by dirtyharry50
I really don't understand you, dirty. You have been proven wrong, completely. Your rudeness was inexcusable. Yet you still seem to think everyone else is at fault. It is kind of fascinating.
Grimoire will never be a finished game worth playing and Cleve Blakemore has stolen money.

This is how it stands today and based on 17+ years of bullshit odds are it isn't going to change.

Retracting my other comments about this vaporware, it's bug infested super demo, etc.
Post edited January 03, 2014 by dirtyharry50
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dirtyharry50: Yesterday, Cleve's stated position was not the same as it is today. All is clear now except to you it seems.
Except it was only different in your mind, not his, not mine, not anyone's here or the other forum.
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dirtyharry50: What may be an issue for some backers such as myself is that he lied to us and then called us autistic (which is a really inappropriate use of that term) for being foolish enough to believe him.
It's called metonymy - a surrogate term is used to convey a meaning that a competent user of a given language will understand.
One of the more widely known (and relevant here) characteristics of autistic people is their inability to read between the lines, understand anything that goes beyond literal meanings, take cues and information from context.
I'm not particularly fond of Clive, but I couldn't help but laugh at his "severely autistic" post. I've been disappointed by other people's limitations before, so I can empathize with him...
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lowyhong: Finally?
http://www.indiegogo.com/grimoireforever

(thanks Crosmondo)

-edit- I have realized the errors of my ways, and have thus removed Calvin Barkmore from OP.
17 years of development??????????????????????????????????????????????
it must be a joke.
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dirtyharry50: What may be an issue for some backers such as myself is that he lied to us and then called us autistic (which is a really inappropriate use of that term) for being foolish enough to believe him.
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Vestin: It's called metonymy - a surrogate term is used to convey a meaning that a competent user of a given language will understand.
One of the more widely known (and relevant here) characteristics of autistic people is their inability to read between the lines, understand anything that goes beyond literal meanings, take cues and information from context.
I'm not particularly fond of Clive, but I couldn't help but laugh at his "severely autistic" post. I've been disappointed by other people's limitations before, so I can empathize with him...
I understand that Vestin but consider the use of the term for a condition people suffer with to be inappropriate. No doubt there are people who will disagree with that too but that is how I feel.
Post edited November 04, 2013 by dirtyharry50
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lowyhong: Finally?
http://www.indiegogo.com/grimoireforever

(thanks Crosmondo)

-edit- I have realized the errors of my ways, and have thus removed Calvin Barkmore from OP.
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meudoland: 17 years of development??????????????????????????????????????????????
it must be a joke.
No ?
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lowyhong: Finally?
http://www.indiegogo.com/grimoireforever

(thanks Crosmondo)

-edit- I have realized the errors of my ways, and have thus removed Calvin Barkmore from OP.
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meudoland: 17 years of development??????????????????????????????????????????????
it must be a joke.
Don't be surprised. There are other games out there that have been in development for a fair while... just not as long as this one (Kenshi and Xenonauts come to mind) :P
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filipstamate: Actually, all that is true.
Seeing as how that other guy isn't even alive anymore to tell his side of the story, I'd take anything Cleve says with a pinch of salt.
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filipstamate: Actually, all that is true.
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solzariv: Seeing as how that other guy isn't even alive anymore to tell his side of the story, I'd take anything Cleve says with a pinch of salt.
...

Imagine you are Cleve, trying to explain that you did work on a Wizardry sequel and no one believed you for about 10 years, trying to explain that they are indeed stuff like the butt-hole monster to be implemented in Wizardry 8...

See attachment for butt-hole monster and Cleve's resignation letter to Sir-Tech
Attachments:
rg.jpg (169 Kb)
ufarr.jpg (448 Kb)
Post edited November 06, 2013 by Craiq
The eBay auction was what convinced me Cleve's background (working in Sirtech) was for real - I couldn't find anything about it that even remotely suggested the seller was pulling a fast one. A bunch of us on the dex did try to acquire the documents, but 2-3 external buyers were able to bid snipe most of us with bids beyond what we were willing/able to pay; there were also some legal problems with the whole thing. Too bad, some of the stuff would have been really cool to have e.g. the letters and financial records.
Post edited November 06, 2013 by lowyhong
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solzariv: Seeing as how that other guy isn't even alive anymore to tell his side of the story, I'd take anything Cleve says with a pinch of salt.
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Craiq: ...

Imagine you are Cleve, trying to explain that you did work on a Wizardry sequel and no one believed you for about 10 years, trying to explain that they are indeed stuff like the butt-hole monster to be implemented in Wizardry 8...

See attachment for butt-hole monster and Cleve's resignation letter to Sir-Tech
Yes, old news, I've already seen those. Seeing all that stuff suddenly pop up on eBay on a routine Wizardry search one day is what led me to the rpgcodex thread on further research in the first place.

I'm still not believing the outlandish claims he made about his Sir-Tech co-workers running a pedophilic sexual human trafficking ring.