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I mean gameplay that isn't part of the genre the game is in, like a stealth section which you automatically fail if you're sighted in an action fps, or a base building RTS forcing you to play like it's a squad game. There's also chase scenes, horrid minigames, and all sorts of trash gameplay shoved into games that don't otherwise need it.
Post edited March 28, 2021 by malikhis
Yes, for accessibility reasons.

Why should a one-handed player have to play through a part of the game that requires 2 hands (or a specialized controller) to get to later content that can be enjoyed with only one?

Why should a deaf gamer have to play through a part of the game that relies on audio cues (with no alternative) to get to the rest of the game that does not rely on such?

Why should a player have to endure real-time gameplay to get to more turn based goodness (particularly if the player is not able to play real-time games, but handles turn based games just fine)?
Wait, do you mean genre? Genera is the plural of genus.

I think I know what you mean though, I can find it annoying when a point and click adventure includes an action based minigame. Some games give the opportunity to skip them, but I usually end up persevering anyway.
Post edited March 25, 2021 by my name is sadde catte
Within reason, yes.

Games which lets you skip huge chunks without any penalty kinda bums me out but I'm glad certain games have story mode for those of us that are absolute trash when it comes to specific genres of games.

For me personally, the Persona-games are awesome experiences but I always play on easiest difficulty since for some reason I just suck at the games (I have no problem playing the South Park-games on normal difficulty which are also turnbased RPGs, maybe they're just much easier?)
Post edited March 25, 2021 by Mjauv
Some games find some middle ground by adding difficulty modes to the mini-games. Curse of Monkey Island did this with the mandatory ship combat: letting the crew "take control" doesn't skip it but makes it a lot easier. The manual even says that this is intended for those who want to play an adventure game and not a 17th century acquatic shooting gallery.
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my name is sadde catte: I think I know what you mean though, I can find it annoying when a point and click adventure includes an action based minigame. Some games give the opportunity to skip them, but I usually end up persevering anyway.
Those gun fights in Gemini Rue...
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ConsulCaesar: Some games find some middle ground by adding difficulty modes to the mini-games. Curse of Monkey Island did this with the mandatory ship combat: letting the crew "take control" doesn't skip it but makes it a lot easier. The manual even says that this is intended for those who want to play an adventure game and not a 17th century acquatic shooting gallery.
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my name is sadde catte: I think I know what you mean though, I can find it annoying when a point and click adventure includes an action based minigame. Some games give the opportunity to skip them, but I usually end up persevering anyway.
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ConsulCaesar: Those gun fights in Gemini Rue...
They weren't too bad, not much worse than say the timed sequences in Broken Sword. I've played some really awful ones, most recently in a low budget AGS game called Anastronaut. There's a sequence where you have to pilot a submarine at high speed avoiding rocks on the ocean floor. This part was controlled with the keyboard but they were implemented really badly and I couldn't get past it until the next evening.
Some game mechanics, that are not to be expected when starting/buying the game because they are vastly different from the base game, should be skippable. However, some other mechanics should never exist in the first place. QTE for example. If a game relies on those, I skip them by not buying the game. Especially if it is supposed to be an adventure game.
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Lifthrasil: Some game mechanics, that are not to be expected when starting/buying the game because they are vastly different from the base game, should be skippable. However, some other mechanics should never exist in the first place. QTE for example. If a game relies on those, I skip them by not buying the game. Especially if it is supposed to be an adventure game.
I take it you don't like games like Dragon's Lair? (Dragon's Lair could be described as a QTE game; the QTEs are the entirity of the gameplay, and hence would be considered part of the game's genre, and hence entirely expected.)

What about games like Super Mario RPG, where combat is like a turn-based RPG, except that with every action there is a QTE you can do that will increase the damage you deal or reduce the damage you take? (Ikenfell also does this, though that game has the option to force getting the best result every time without actually having to do the command.)
I haven't ever played a game where I thought so no. In the very least developers should play test those parts carefully, to make sure that they're not too overbearing/difficult. E.g. to avoid overly long turret / rail shooting sections in an FPS for example. These are often fun, but almost never for as long as the game thinks it should last.
Yes. I've played enough Nintendo games with overbearing gameplay switches.
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Lifthrasil: Some game mechanics, that are not to be expected when starting/buying the game because they are vastly different from the base game, should be skippable. However, some other mechanics should never exist in the first place. QTE for example. If a game relies on those, I skip them by not buying the game. Especially if it is supposed to be an adventure game.
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dtgreene: I take it you don't like games like Dragon's Lair?
Horrible game! I tried it and hated it.
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dtgreene: I take it you don't like games like Dragon's Lair?
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Lifthrasil: Horrible game! I tried it and hated it.
Doesn't surprise me.

(Note that I haven't tried the game myself, but my understanding is that it really is just QTEs.)

With that said, at least the QTEs in Dragon's Lair aren't gating any gameplay that you might enjoy, so you can safely skip that sort of game.

In any case, I *hate* the stealth sequences that started appearing in the Zelda games starting with Ocarina of Time; they're very unfair, unforgiving, frustrating, and un-Zelda-like.
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Lifthrasil: Some game mechanics, that are not to be expected when starting/buying the game because they are vastly different from the base game, should be skippable. However, some other mechanics should never exist in the first place. QTE for example. If a game relies on those, I skip them by not buying the game. Especially if it is supposed to be an adventure game.
Oh yeah, QTE. Mech Assault 2 for the XBOX's final boss required you to work a QTE puzzle in a game that is about giant robots shooting each other. I never did beat that game, got stuck just because I couldn't deal with that nonsense.
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Matewis: I haven't ever played a game where I thought so no. In the very least developers should play test those parts carefully, to make sure that they're not too overbearing/difficult. E.g. to avoid overly long turret / rail shooting sections in an FPS for example. These are often fun, but almost never for as long as the game thinks it should last.
Regress back to flash games where you move the mouse all over the screen and just click at what you want to blow up. But at least that kind of stuff is part of the FPS package, though even those get annoying as they can gimp you in ways to make it that every shot has to count. Many FPS' can be played run and spray, constantly firing inaccurately and retreating into cover.
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dtgreene: Why should a deaf gamer have to play through a part of the game that relies on audio cues (with no alternative) to get to the rest of the game that does not rely on such?
Well, at least with ocarina of time you could draw a map... I remember not even realizing I was supposed to be following the song until half way through, but by then I had already mapped much of the lost woods. It's not exactly a gatekeeper though.
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dtgreene: Why should a player have to endure real-time gameplay to get to more turn based goodness (particularly if the player is not able to play real-time games, but handles turn based games just fine)?
Because companies think every game needs to be an FPS-RPG-RTS-MMO-Minigame to get the maximum exposure.
Post edited March 28, 2021 by malikhis
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dtgreene: Yes, for accessibility reasons.

Why should a one-handed player have to play through a part of the game that requires 2 hands (or a specialized controller) to get to later content that can be enjoyed with only one?

Why should a deaf gamer have to play through a part of the game that relies on audio cues (with no alternative) to get to the rest of the game that does not rely on such?

Why should a player have to endure real-time gameplay to get to more turn based goodness (particularly if the player is not able to play real-time games, but handles turn based games just fine)?
You do understand that this line of thinking leads to...

... games should not exist unless they are equally accessible to the blind.

https://phys.org/news/2019-06-lost-hound-video-games-vision.html

I know this sounds absurd, but absurdism has become more-and-more commonplace in the inclusivity and accessibility debate as of late.

Weaponized "accessibility" is dangerous -- not particularly in initial intention -- but certainly in practice. The rabbit hole of access and inclusion is infinite and ever-changing.

I only bring this up because you and I have had discussion on this in the past... and while I think your heart is in the right place, I tend to believe the argument is wrong. But that's my opinion.

Now, would it be nice to be able to skip sections of games based on either want or need? Certainly. I believe Bard's Tale IV allows you to skip puzzle segments... although I think trophies are linked to accomplishing those segments.
Post edited March 28, 2021 by kai2
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dtgreene: Yes, for accessibility reasons.

Why should a one-handed player have to play through a part of the game that requires 2 hands (or a specialized controller) to get to later content that can be enjoyed with only one?

Why should a deaf gamer have to play through a part of the game that relies on audio cues (with no alternative) to get to the rest of the game that does not rely on such?

Why should a player have to endure real-time gameplay to get to more turn based goodness (particularly if the player is not able to play real-time games, but handles turn based games just fine)?
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kai2: You do understand that this line of thinking leads to...

... games should not exist unless they are equally accessible to the blind.

https://phys.org/news/2019-06-lost-hound-video-games-vision.html

I know this sounds absurd, but absurdism has become more-and-more commonplace in the inclusivity and accessibility debate as of late.

Weaponized "accessibility" is dangerous -- not particularly in initial intention -- but certainly in practice. The rabbit hole of access and inclusion is infinite and ever-changing.

I only bring this up because you and I have had discussion on this in the past... and while I think your heart is in the right place, I tend to believe the argument is wrong. But that's my opinion.

Now, would it be nice to be able to skip sections of games based on either want or need? Certainly. I believe Bard's Tale IV allows you to skip puzzle segments... although I think trophies are linked to accomplishing those segments.
I'm not saying every game needs to be accessible to the blind.

What I'm saying is that, if the main game happens to be accessible to the blind, then no part of the game that is blind-accessible should be gated by a part that isn't.

It can be frustrating to be enjoying a game just fine, only to reach an obstacle that you can't pass because of an accessibility issue that is present no where else in the game.

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dtgreene: Why should a deaf gamer have to play through a part of the game that relies on audio cues (with no alternative) to get to the rest of the game that does not rely on such?
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malikhis: Well, at least with ocarina of time you could draw a map... I remember not even realizing I was supposed to be following the song until half way through, but by then I had already mapped much of the lost woods. It's not exactly a gatekeeper though.
There are a couple things the developers could have done to make this part of the game more accessible:
1. Put a music note icon on the screen; as the player gets closer to the source of the music, the note icon would light up brighter, and when far from the music, the icon would become transparent.
2. If the controller has a Rumble Pack inserted, have the controller vibrate a bit as the player gets near the source of the music, with the vibration speed increasing the closer the player is. (Note that, for any ports to systems that have rumble functionality as standard, the game should give the player the option to disable it before the first point where rumble occurs.

I'm actually reminded of an accessibility feature in Gurumin: A Monsterous Adventure. In that game, if you time your attack to the music, your attacks will be critical hits (and on the hardest difficulty, non-critical hits do no damage). Hence, there is an important audio cue. However, on the PC version, there is a staff with notes on it showing the rhythm, so a player who is deaf (or who is playing with the sound off) still has a cue that allows them to time critical hits. The PlayStation Portable version is sadly missing this feature. (Does the 3DS version have this?)

(By the way, for anyone thinking about picking up Gurumin during this sale who is worried about a nasty bug in the GOG version, I believe that bug was fixed a long time ago, so you should be able to get through the ending without the game crashing.)
Post edited March 28, 2021 by dtgreene