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General discussionShould consoles' life cycles be shortened?(30 posts)(30 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 14, 2021
low rated
Right now, Microsoft and Sony release their consoles in 7-year cycles.

I don't think that's the right course of action. We could see that with Cyberpunk.

I mean, just take a look at my PC. RTX 2060, Ryzen 5 2600, 16 GB of RAM. It's pretty decent, by not really high end... And yet it absolutely blows away PS4 pro in every regard, let alone the base PS4. Yes, it's probably weaker than PS5 and the corresponding Xbox... But then again, i am not expecting it to last me another 7 years, while PS5 is supposed to.

It's pretty silly how developers need to limit themselves just to make the game work on hardware which wasn't even that good when it was first released. I mean, i am pretty sure that RTX 3080 and 90 already outperfom PS5, and we are just two months since launch.

Think about it that way. Until a few months ago, PS3 and X360 were technically "last gen"... When they were released in 2006. If i am to use an analogy to football, that was when Fabio Cannavaro won the Ballon d'Or, and Italy were world champions. That's how long ago it was.

Imho Microsoft and Sony should shorten the consoles' life cycle from 7 to 5 years. RDR2 worked well on PS4/X360 and that should have been the last major AAA title to have appeared on those consoles, just like GTA V in 2013.

Do you agree with me?

I mean, in some ways it's good that consoles have life cycles of 7 years, because that means we don't have to upgrade our PC's all that often, but at the end of the day, i think that releasing an AAA title like Cyberpunk on 7 year old hardware is detrimental to gaming.
Post edited January 14, 2021 by GeraltOfRivia_PL
Posted January 14, 2021
low rated
should consoles ended , just turn them into some standard prefab pc-s and release a new one every 4 years,
so devs can use them as targets for their games?
Posted January 14, 2021
avatar
GeraltOfRivia_PL: Imho Microsoft and Sony should shorten the consoles' life cycle from 7 to 5 years. RDR2 worked well on PS4/X360 and that should have been the last major AAA title to have appeared on those consoles, just like GTA V in 2013.

Do you agree with me?
No. If anything they should probably get longer.

There's old SNK systems that more or less ran the better part of 2 decades for all the fighting games they brought out. It didn't really need improving, instead just making new characters and people loving the arcade fighting for many many years with no need of improvement.

The push for higher resolution and larger open worlds isn't very sustainable. Take any indie dev and they will not be able to use all the processing power if they wanted, and often limitations brought different solutions to the same problems that tended to be more ingenious and better.

Also at the 'end' of the lifetime of a console is when some of the best games are made, generally when they have mastered the hardware, what limitations, workarounds and othe things.

Lastly... I'd still get PS2 games if they were good and still coming out. There's many games that don't need that much power to run. Not really.
Posted January 14, 2021
I could go on and write a treaty on the computer hardware industry, e-waste and general economics, but I'll keep it short. To summarize: optimized games do not generate revenue - this is why there's a constant need to come up with better and better hardware for gaming in general and tools that focus on reducing development time instead of squeezing all that can be squeezed out of a platform.

If we weren't living in a capitalist world, we could find ways to run Cyberpunk 2077 at 4K/60 fps on a Sandy Bridge quad-core CPU and a GTX 780 (RTX Off). But, sadly, that's not how the world economy works - se we're back to being consumers constantly being sold "the next best thing".
Post edited January 14, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
Posted January 14, 2021
I would also say that consoles should last longer, the graphical changes between console generations is getting less and less noticeable, also I feel that game developers need to stop for a moment and look into making ways to improve game design and development time as the costs/number of people/time need to make games is just getting overblown.

Industry really needs to look at ways to improve game development to make it easier on the people making the games as many are getting severely overworked and and abused in some cases.
Posted January 14, 2021
low rated
avatar
WinterSnowfall: I could go on and write a treaty on the computer hardware industry, e-waste and general economics, but I'll keep it short. To summarize: optimized games do not generate revenue - this is why there's a constant need to come up with better and better hardware for gaming in general and tools that focus on reducing development time instead of squeezing all that can be squeezed out of a platform.

If we weren't living in a capitalist world, we could find ways to run Cyberpunk 2077 at 4K/60 fps on a Sandy Bridge quad-core CPU and a GTX 780 (RTX Off). But, sadly, that's not how the world economy works - se we're back to being consumers constantly being sold "the next best thing".
Wait, i don't get it, wouldn't the investors and the company want the game to be available for as many people as possible?
Posted January 14, 2021
I don't get the point of this thread. It sounds a lot like: "The weather should be warmer and sunnier over here. Do you agree?".
Posted January 14, 2021
avatar
GeraltOfRivia_PL: Wait, i don't get it, wouldn't the investors and the company want the game to be available for as many people as possible?
In theory, yes, but then again it has become quite the norm to have to buy new hardware in order to play the latest triple A games - some computer hardware companies (I shall not name anyone... *cough* nvi *cough* dia) see this as an opportunity to squeeze in some new technologies they've developed or marketed.

People actually *expect* "next gen" graphics to be part of flagship games, as something to wow them, and also tacitly accept the fact that they should buy new hardware for it, which is why nobody is optimizing for old hardware these days. We didn't get here overnight - these expectations and type of consumer behavior have been PRed by the industry for years.

Just look at how aggressively some company wants to get people off of Pascal GPUs at the moment. It's not like they've turned to crap over night - some are still good GPUs for 1080p... but they're just not "optimal" for these new games. Because nobody was aiming to keep an old product alive anyway.

CDPR's aim to get the game running on last gen consoles was an outlier, and it failing will certainly discourage any such plans for future games.

These days you either go for next gen graphics and push the hardware envelope or settle for more modest graphics with lower requirements and a wider audience. Companies that have the skills and desire to pull off both on their own (because the computer hardware industry certainly won't support them or make their life easier in any way) are rare - some are even legendary (id Software).
Post edited January 14, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
Posted January 14, 2021
low rated
avatar
GeraltOfRivia_PL: Wait, i don't get it, wouldn't the investors and the company want the game to be available for as many people as possible?
Are you really asking why games aren't still being released for the "first console ever"?
Post edited January 14, 2021 by teceem
Posted January 14, 2021
avatar
GeraltOfRivia_PL: Right now, Microsoft and Sony release their consoles in 7-year cycles.

I don't think that's the right course of action. We could see that with Cyberpunk.

I mean, just take a look at my PC. RTX 2060, Ryzen 5 2600, 16 GB of RAM. It's pretty decent, by not really high end... And yet it absolutely blows away PS4 pro in every regard, let alone the base PS4. Yes, it's probably weaker than PS5 and the corresponding Xbox... But then again, i am not expecting it to last me another 7 years, while PS5 is supposed to.

It's pretty silly how developers need to limit themselves just to make the game work on hardware which wasn't even that good when it was first released. I mean, i am pretty sure that RTX 3080 and 90 already outperfom PS5, and we are just two months since launch.

Think about it that way. Until a few months ago, PS3 and X360 were technically "last gen"... When they were released in 2006. If i am to use an analogy to football, that was when Fabio Cannavaro won the Ballon d'Or, and Italy were world champions. That's how long ago it was.

Imho Microsoft and Sony should shorten the consoles' life cycle from 7 to 5 years. RDR2 worked well on PS4/X360 and that should have been the last major AAA title to have appeared on those consoles, just like GTA V in 2013.

Do you agree with me?

I mean, in some ways it's good that consoles have life cycles of 7 years, because that means we don't have to upgrade our PC's all that often, but at the end of the day, i think that releasing an AAA title like Cyberpunk on 7 year old hardware is detrimental to gaming.
the xbox one didn't have enough time compared to the xbox 360
Posted January 14, 2021
low rated
The biggest problem had the last generation of consoles, when it comes to the Cyberpunk 2077. Then there are some games which have issues upon the launch on the latest generation of consoles. Always the two types of excuses remain:

1.) At the time of game being developed came out the new generation of consoles, thus developers didn't have enough time to adopt it on it, as they didn't have enough time to prepare.

2.) The game performs poorly on the older generation of consoles, well,because it is the old generation of consoles.

That being said, imagine shorter time period between console editions. In that case we would have examples where a game started being developed on an old console when a new generation of console came out, and was released, when even newer generation of console was announced. Obviously some developers can't handle the release for two generations of consoles, and in the case that you suggest, the developers would have to deal with three generations of consoles, instead of two. Now that would have been a real shit show to watch. That is why I stick with PC gaming for almost a decade an half. I did start out with consoles Sega Mega, PlayStation, Xbox and PlayStation 2, as well as the arcade. Uh, when I only remember how powerful the Xbox was when it came out. One gaming club had Indiana Jones And The Emperor's Tomb, Serious Sam - Fusion, James Bond 007 - Nightfire on it... Both PlayStations didn't come close to it. Good old days.
Posted January 14, 2021
avatar
Wishmaster777: The biggest problem had the last generation of consoles, when it comes to the Cyberpunk 2077. Then there are some games which have issues upon the launch on the latest generation of consoles. Always the two types of excuses remain:

1.) At the time of game being developed came out the new generation of consoles, thus developers didn't have enough time to adopt it on it, as they didn't have enough time to prepare.

2.) The game performs poorly on the older generation of consoles, well,because it is the old generation of consoles.

That being said, imagine shorter time period between console editions. In that case we would have examples where a game started being developed on an old console when a new generation of console came out, and was released, when even newer generation of console was announced. Obviously some developers can't handle the release for two generations of consoles, and in the case that you suggest, the developers would have to deal with three generations of consoles, instead of two. Now that would have been a real shit show to watch. That is why I stick with PC gaming for almost a decade an half. I did start out with consoles Sega Mega, PlayStation, Xbox and PlayStation 2, as well as the arcade. Uh, when I only remember how powerful the Xbox was when it came out. One gaming club had Indiana Jones And The Emperor's Tomb, Serious Sam - Fusion, James Bond 007 - Nightfire on it... Both PlayStations didn't come close to it. Good old days.
nah probably future console gens will be just prefab pc-s like the newest ones , so their architecture will be similar and no need for different programming approaches , just different texture sizes poly models and some effects and that is easy
basically what we have with pc-s now , just they would have a few fixed setups
I wish sony would stop with the lame exclusives so anti customer tactic
Posted January 14, 2021
avatar
Orkhepaj: nah probably future console gens will be just prefab pc-s like the newest ones , so their architecture will be similar and no need for different programming approaches , just different texture sizes poly models and some effects and that is easy
basically what we have with pc-s now , just they would have a few fixed setups
I wish sony would stop with the lame exclusives so anti customer tactic
If we imagine his proposal, that is what I think could have been the outcome.
As for the future of the consoles... honestly, who gives a fuck. :-D I imagine it could have something to do with swappable modular parts, after which all will finally turn to the PC gaming.
Post edited January 14, 2021 by Wishmaster777
Posted January 14, 2021
avatar
Orkhepaj: nah probably future console gens will be just prefab pc-s like the newest ones , so their architecture will be similar and no need for different programming approaches , just different texture sizes poly models and some effects and that is easy
basically what we have with pc-s now , just they would have a few fixed setups
I wish sony would stop with the lame exclusives so anti customer tactic
avatar
Wishmaster777: If we imagine his proposal, that is what I think could have been the outcome.
As for the future of the consoles... honestly, who gives a fuck. :-D I imagine it could have something to do with swappable modular parts, after which all will finally turn to the PC gaming.
Probably they will be server only with remote playing. At least that's where we are heading right now.
Posted January 15, 2021
I think they should be around 10+. This will give devs time to master the hardware and put out some great stuff.
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General discussionShould consoles' life cycles be shortened?(30 posts)(30 posts)
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