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GamezRanker: That is a fair price.....but with the track record of remakes/remasters, I am guessing it will be more like around 25+.
I've not seen a remaster from Nightdive with such a high price yet. They've always been priced fair enough.
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GamezRanker: Anyhoo, the point I was trying to make is that(imo): they should leave the old versions for sale alongside the new ones....for those who don't want to buy the new ones for whatever reason.
If the old version is still worth it (e.g. BLOOD) then yes it should stay available. But the old version of Shadow Man is not worth it. I don't know how anyone would be able to enjoy this game with such awful broken mouse controls. It's unplayable the way it is.
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GamezRanker: (personal example: I sometimes like to buy old games for people as gifts....with companies that "lock" the old versions behind the purchase of the new ones, that increases what I need to spend to do so[even when on sale, many remakes/remasters often cost more than the old versions at full price])
It might increase what you need to spend to gift someone the game but the person that would recieve the gift would get two versions instead of just one + bonus stuff that way. Imo that's even better than to only have the old version in your library. This way you have the freedom to test both versions and pick the one you prefer in the end.
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Carradice: It is sad to see an original game leaving.
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GamezRanker: Yeah.....here's hoping they at least make it a freebie in the new version if it comes to GOG.

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Carradice: Voodoo, the other side, if that sounds appealing, then you need this.
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GamezRanker: You could say that
(content note: Princess and Frog, sfw)
Nice video. Fun and to the point. One day I ought to watch the movie.
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Berzerk2k2: It might increase what you need to spend to gift someone the game but the person that would recieve the gift would get two versions instead of just one + bonus stuff that way. Imo that's even better than to only have the old version in your library. This way you have the freedom to test both versions and pick the one you prefer in the end.
Huh, you're actually arguing for less freedom. Being railroaded into buying a remaster, at a higher price, rather than choosing which versions you want (as individually priced offerings) is not freedom.

I've seen too many remasters miss the mark (bugs and feature regressions, art and design changes) to blindly trust publishers to uphold proper respect for source material. That said, Nightdive/Kaiser usually do well.

Sometimes, it is even worse--the original version is withdrawn from distribution entirely, with a broken remaster pushed in its place. Akin to the whole Star Wars 1977 cut vs. Special Edition controversy. At some point, capitalistic profits (or other selfish factors) outweigh a sense of historical preservation.
Post edited April 06, 2021 by KingSyphilis
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KingSyphilis: Huh, you're actually arguing for less freedom. Being railroaded into buying a remaster, at a higher price, rather than choosing which versions you want (as individually priced offerings) is not freedom.
I'm arguing against selling a broken product when there is a better working one soon available.
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idbeholdME: Some companies pretty much made this their MO (Microsoft, Blizzard). Re-releasing older stuff again and again and always bumping the price. Much cheaper than making a whole new game and sells like hotcakes because of nostalgia. How many versions of AoE 2 are there now again? With the original nowhere to be found but physical releases?
Also similar is how console makers/game devs push people to buy games over and over with each new console.
(sure, some old console games will play on the next new system, but not all)

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Berzerk2k2: I've not seen a remaster from Nightdive with such a high price yet. They've always been priced fair enough.
Case in point: System Shock. The remake is around 45 bucks.

Yes, you get the upcoming SS2 free as a preorder bonus.....but that price will likely be the same even after the preorder period when the SS2 bonus is no longer available as well, making it essentially the price for the game.

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Berzerk2k2: If the old version is still worth it (e.g. BLOOD) then yes it should stay available. But the old version of Shadow Man is not worth it. I don't know how anyone would be able to enjoy this game with such awful broken mouse controls. It's unplayable the way it is.
Well obviously it can't be THAT unplayable, else GOG probably wouldn't be selling it....and people must be enjoying it, else it's reviews would likely be largely negative.

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Berzerk2k2: It might increase what you need to spend to gift someone the game but the person that would recieve the gift would get two versions instead of just one + bonus stuff that way. Imo that's even better than to only have the old version in your library. This way you have the freedom to test both versions and pick the one you prefer in the end.
Again, some people might not want such versions at all....such as people who dislike remasters/remakes in general or those for whom the old version works/plays well enough.

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Carradice: Nice video. Fun and to the point. One day I ought to watch the movie.
It is a nice little film, and I heartily recommend it.
Post edited April 07, 2021 by GamezRanker
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GamezRanker: Case in point: System Shock. The remake is around 45 bucks.
A remake is not a remaster. Of course it will cost more than a remastered game because it is a completely new game made from 0.
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GamezRanker: Well obviously it can't be THAT unplayable, else GOG probably wouldn't be selling it....and people must be enjoying it, else it's reviews would likely be largely negative.
The mouselook that you can activate in the options is completely broken. You can't look up/down at all and turning left/right is unresponsive as hell too. It might still work for people who play games keyboard only but if you are used to wasd + mouse then it's not playable that way.
I missed old good times were "games to be delisted" used to be on sale but hey at least we are beign warned about it.
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Berzerk2k2: A remake is not a remaster. Of course it will cost more than a remastered game because it is a completely new game made from 0.
4 1/2 times the current price of the original version, though?

Also technically it's not remade from 0...they have the setting(citadel station and it's levels), the characters(shodan, etc), the plot....it's not like they made an entirely new idea from scratch.

(making a game from 0 would mean coming up with a whole new idea and then designing/making all the assets for it....but that is extra work, which is partly why some companies choose to make remakes/remasters instead)

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Berzerk2k2: The mouselook that you can activate in the options is completely broken. You can't look up/down at all and turning left/right is unresponsive as hell too. It might still work for people who play games keyboard only but if you are used to wasd + mouse then it's not playable that way.
I am not certain, but I am guessing someone could probably find a way to fix that in the old version(if no has done so already, that is).
Post edited April 08, 2021 by GamezRanker
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nicohvc: I missed old good times were "games to be delisted" used to be on sale but hey at least we are being warned about it.
Afaik the company that owns the rights must agree to such sales/discounts.

That said: this(from what I played long ago) game is a decent one(plot/setting/etc), and the price is thankfully reasonable enough even without discounts. :)
Post edited April 08, 2021 by GamezRanker
And Shadow Man is now a mere shadow.
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tyl0413: What if someone wants to though, they should have the choice.
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Berzerk2k2: Sure thing you should have the choice but why would you pick the worse version that runs and controls like ass over the new version that will improve these things and also adds new effects and new content on top? Makes no sense imo.
What if it doesn't? Maybe not in this case but let's take SiN Reloaded, i think the textures look bad on the new edition so it would be a shame if they took down the original for anyone who would prefer the older look (or whatever other reason they might have for wanting to play the older version).
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Grargar: And Shadow Man is now a mere shadow.
Soon to be recast in a better light (hopefully).

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tyl0413: What if it doesn't?
Legacy version installers are usually added as goodies.
Post edited April 08, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
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KingSyphilis: Huh, you're actually arguing for less freedom. Being railroaded into buying a remaster, at a higher price, rather than choosing which versions you want (as individually priced offerings) is not freedom.
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Berzerk2k2: I'm arguing against selling a broken product when there is a better working one soon available.
I'd rather decide what to buy and play myself than blindly trust corporations to choose for me. If i wanna buy a "broken" product i should have the freedom to do so.
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Grargar: And Shadow Man is now a mere shadow.
Yup, but never fear...I planned ahead and took steps: (note: entrants can enter for the game itself, the other draw, or both draws)

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tyl0413: What if it doesn't? Maybe not in this case but let's take SiN Reloaded, i think the textures look bad on the new edition so it would be a shame if they took down the original for anyone who would prefer the older look (or whatever other reason they might have for wanting to play the older version).
Eh, I like the new textures somewhat(they remind me a bit of the original XIII), and am hoping they add in some other new bits and bobs I find fun/interesting.

That said, I hear ya and agree that companies should leave BOTH versions up for people to choose from.

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tyl0413: I'd rather decide what to buy and play myself than blindly trust corporations to choose for me. If i wanna buy a "broken" product i should have the freedom to do so.
Well said

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WinterSnowfall: Legacy version installers are usually added as goodies.
Which one then has to buy the new version to get....and, even with sales, often at a higher price point than buying the old version at full price.

Sidenote: I would like to see more companies go the Shadow Warrior route, and make the game a freebie on GOG. Probably not gonna happen much, but one can dream. :)
Post edited April 09, 2021 by GamezRanker
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GamezRanker: Sidenote: I would like to see more companies go the Shadow Warrior route, and make the game a freebie on GOG. Probably not gonna happen much, but one can dream. :)
That would be the ideal scenario. However, companies want people to buy the newer versions, so removing the old ones is part of the strategy.

It's funny that lots of companies have different approaches to this, thought. The worst ones are those that remove the old version, don't add them as a goodie and doesn't even have a special discount for owners of the originals