ZFR: Pooka, Lift. Why did you vote yes?

blotunga: I would like a pre-vote on how to proceed, I would nominate either ZFR or flub. Flub because then we could follow with his presidency if we manage to pass a L. If I draw FFF then I would pass presidency automatically to ZFR. How does this plan sound to you?

ZFR: Pooka, Lift. Why did you vote yes?

PookaMustard: I don't know, it seems I wasn't thinking straight last night. Ugh.

1. I have no strong opinions against scene and ZFR, so I saw no big reason to vote a no.
2. We're not yet at the point where we have to be very careful about Hitler being chancellor.

As for blotunga's pre-vote, I am okay with ZFR being chancellor, but flub in my opinion, should be tested as president and not chancellor. So ZFR it is (unless we can vote for another guy).

blotunga: Why do you think that a flub president without any previous knowledge would benefit us?

blotunga: I would like a pre-vote on how to proceed, I would nominate either ZFR or flub. Flub because then we could follow with his presidency if we manage to pass a L. If I draw FFF then I would pass presidency automatically to ZFR. How does this plan sound to you?

blotunga: ..............

@Flub whom would you pick as president in case you pass the 3rd F?

blotunga: I would like a pre-vote on how to proceed, I would nominate either ZFR or flub. Flub because then we could follow with his presidency if we manage to pass a L. If I draw FFF then I would pass presidency automatically to ZFR. How does this plan sound to you?

flubbucket: I would pick from the small group I mentioned earlier (post #730).

ZFR: I don't trust trentonlf.

JoeSapphire: and then I thought "Oh wait there's still a vote with special election, so they might trust me if I promise, in the case of FFF or trent screwing me over, to elect ZFR. If I don't elect ZFR then they just vote it down, it's a waste of a power but..."

ZFR: While I think you're right, technically it's not "certainly". There is a chance both of you are fascists and Lift did this so he could implicate himself after some time, while "clearing" you.
I think it's too risky a move. While you create conflict to distance yourself in Mafia, in Secret Hitler all you end up with is both of you outside any government.

(Incidentally, I'm happy there is finally a *real* conflict i.e. one where you're sure one person is scum (so one based on investigation or arguing which cards were passed). In the previous game we never had them.

Some other pairings I thought about:

Theorem: Pooka and Lift can't be both scum (barring bad play on Pooka's part)
Proof: Assume Pooka scum. He is a president and has to elect a fellow chancellor. When would ever F choose a fellow F as his chancellor? Two reasons: He wants to make be very sure a fascist policy is passed (even if he draws 2 Ls) OR he wants to pass a liberal policy and clear two fascists with one stone.
Neither applies here. There was only 1 L, so scumPooka knew his presence was enough to pass an F policy, and there is no way scumPooka at this point wanted to pass an L policy to clear himself and Lift. Not when there was a good 62.5% chance they'd be getting FFF anyway.
scumPooka would know he has to pass a F policy, either by burying the remaining L or getting FFF anyway. Either way, he was better off getting a Liberal into government so the liberal's name gets tainted too by the F passed.

A corollary of the above: blotunga and Lift can't both be scum.
Proof: if blotunga is scum, Pooka is too, hence Lift isn't (as per above proof). If Lift is scum then Pooka isn't (as per above proof), hence blotunga is Liberal.

A corollary of the above: blotunga and Pooka must be on same team (note that without the above, we can still have a case of fascist Pooka clearing liberal blotunga).
Proof: trivial.

A corollary of the above: liberal!Joe, scum!(blotunga & Pooka) combination is not possible (i.e. if Joe is liberal, then blotungaPooka has to be liberal, and if blotungaPooka is scum then Joe must be scum).
Proof: If Joe is liberal, Lift is scum therefore Pooka and blotunga can't be scum. Rest you do for homework.

Any comments on the above?

My thoughts:

a) It does depend on Pooka not making a mistake. I wonder if scumPooka who just got into the game might not have picked scumLift by accident.

b) My money would be on Lift being the scum, with other three liberals.

c) Why wouldn't Lift scum create a conflict with liberal blotunga claiming he passed him FL? Could it be he's actually a liberal?

JoeSapphire: So I have a theory - it's kindof frustrating because now that I have information I'm put into a position where I can't be trusted. Frustrating and fun. But I'll explain how my thought process worked.

Of course, even if you trust that I'm not F, you have to consider that I could be just totally wrong.

Anyway:
There were three things that struck me:

1 - Lifthrasil said investigation of me turned up F.

2 - Pooka said investigation of Blotunga turned up Liberal.

3 - Pooka trusted Lifthrasil over me, and said that "it seems he [Joe]'s desperately doing anything to sow distrust among liberals."

My conclusions:

1 - Lifthrasil is F. This needs no expounding.

2 - Initially I thought blotunga fairly confirmed by this - I've explained my logic already, but for those who weren't paying attention: 1. Blontunga didn't want Pooka as president :- blotunga and pooka aren't both F. 2. Blotunga was keen for me to be president, which made me think him more likely to be liberal.
HOWEVER - he began wavering with the Joe 4 Prez plan, even before Lifthrasil stuck his nose in.
It also occurred to me that my 1st conclusion - Pooka and Blotunga can't both be F - could be wrong IF Pooka was Ade H-man. Perhaps an F, seeing that the cards were likely FFFFFFFL, and that the next two likely in presidency were Fs, would want to avoid H-man getting smeared.

3 - This was what got me puzzling the most. Now it might just be that I think Pooka sucks because he's said negative things about me, but no-one else seems to have joined either the Lifthrasil or Joe camps so strongly. ZFR initially said that he leant towards Lifthrasil, and then logicked that Lifthrasil might be the scum.
It was the particular phrasing "it seems he's desperately doing anything to sow distrust among liberals." that got me braining. Two things struck me as odd about it: 1 - the hyperbole, "desperately doing anything", which suggests that pooka's heavily leaning toward Lifthrasil. 2 - the wording "distrust among liberals" suggests that Pooka knows who liberals are - well yes the investigation... nevertheless it makes me brain. Now if Pooka's trusting of Lifthrasil is because they're both F friends, it causes problems with the whole "pooka confirms blotunga & blotunga didn't want pooka in presidency". If Pooka's H-man, it causes problems with the whole "pooka sides strongly with Lifthrasil", because H-man doesn't know who the other F friends are.

UNLESS

Pooka H-man passed Lifthrasil LF, and Lifthrasil passed F.

That would explain why pooka knows lift is fascist, and why pooka name blotunga L (if blotunga IS L, H-man can't cause the conflict, if blotunga is F I need not expound.)

So, that's my theory.

I'm not so excited about it now, as when I started writing, but it'd be really cool if I'm right.

The other thing is it's probably best not to elect pooka as chancellor just to be on the safe side.

OOH pre-post edit, I've just seen that ZFR's put up some of his theories which look like they might be as crazy as mine! Here's hoping x

flubbucket: No.

ZFR: @blotunga.
I don't trust trent. If you want to test, pick rtcvb or flubb, in that order.

supplementscene: Pointless wall of text.