Nobody is bound to believe any investigation since it always comes from a government that passed an F policy. The point is it still gives info for Town. The point of investigation is not to give info "X is fascist" or "X is liberal", but to give info "X accuses Y of being fascist" or "X confirms Y of being liberal".

If I pass FL, Joe passes F and my investigation happens to hit another F, then it's going to be my word against 2 other players. For town, that's pretty good info. At worst, you exclude all the three of us, and you've either quarantined 1 fascist (if it's me who's lying) or two (if it's them who's lying). Not bad for 1F policy passed.

Hello! Sorry for the still-fashionably-but-less-horribly-than-usual late arrivel.

I'm still catching up and I was about to complain that you got me bumped into 10th place (which appears to be a bad thing, I need to look over the rules again...) but you made me chancellor so I guess that makes up for it (assuming it's a good thing. I'll catch up, read the rules, reread, then post)

nope I'm liberal.I've pmed you my address so come and get a good feel whenever you like.

^ this is pretty good. I'm pretty sure ZFR's being genuine about using random.org, but it's true that whether he's fascist or liberal (or town or mafia) he'd probably use it and be faithful to it anyway, and this is a habit we should get him out of. well anyway whatever.

Supplementscene thinks that I might be hitler and Zenefredi has used random.org as a blind get me power in order to prove myself a liberal. So if I choose a liberal policy it proves nothing, and if I choose a fascist policy it proves nothing... which is good to know. I guess?

It depends how close they are to a long drop.

I know you're all going to say "that's the answer everybody wants to hear, so it's exactly the answer a fascist would give," but I'm not going to be dishonest in order to try and appear honest. (ow my brain)

oi! the question was for me alright? So kindly butt out mr president your honour.

because you're not making the choice, so you may as well not write anything. The person who's made up a stupid reason to vote for white-avatared Trisha has still had to make the decision to vote for trisha in the first place, and while it's basically impossible to know why they made that decision and whether it's double-bluff or triple-bluff or triple-double-bluff, at least it's still fun to speculate about, whereas randomising denies me that fun.


aha! So that's what the chancellor does. Cool.

(I will actually read the rules don't worry)

--- okay I'm caught up. reading the rules.

And I immediately come to - "The Presidential
Candidate is free to discuss Chancellor options
with the table to build consensus and make it
more likely the Government gets elected."

did you consider that my honourable president? ;p

---

aha so now we're all secretly voting. Has anybody done so yet? And what did you vote secretly?

Oh, or are we all voting publicly? Do we send our votes to The Puzzlemaster who then makes them public?

---

cool. I'm caught up. I like this game. So uh... I just have to earn your trust now?

aha okay. I saw the rule now where everyone votes in secret then all votes are made public.

I voted in favour of my election.

And while passing a fascist policy can help us, we also want to avoid it where we can, so as long as ZFR gives me the opportunity I'll pass a liberal policy.

And he's promised to pass me a liberal policy if he gets the opporunity, so as long as we don't get three fascist policies we'll be alright.

Now I guess the only reason you'd have not to vote for me is because you don't trust ZFR, seeing as he's already promised to do everything in his power to give me a liberal policy, and he is able to verify what he's passed to me, so if I pass a fascist policy he'll be able to confirm whether or not I haad the opporunity to pass a liberal policy. Whereas if he hands me two fascist policies we'll have no way of knowing whether he discarded a liberal policy or not.

Have I got that right?

I've got a new avatar, but gog's being weird and I can't update... D,;

Yes, that's precisely why I chose so fast. I don't want to spend days on fruitless discussions.

But if you want then by all means let's discuss: whom do you think zeogold's randomizer was more likely to pick as fascist? I wouldn't want to pick that person as Chancellor.

what about "Liberals frequently benefit from slowing play
down and discussing the available information.
Fascists frequently benefit from rushing votes
and creating confusion." ?

;p

but really, the logic wasn't about successfully finding a liberal chancellor, but about making it more likely that your choice would get voted for. And if we have group input then the choice has more meaning, and we can have more fun speculating.
As it happens, I don't have much to complain about, so I should probably stop.

I got the avatar to work! You'll see it soon I'm sure.

Yes.

I am Hitler.

Kill me now.

but seriously?

Did our agent run off with Apollo. I've already cast my vote, but I would like to great you guys nonetheless.

Ditto. Which is why you can't be biased the first round and the first round will definitely push a L policy (or nothing)

Post 5 ZFR asks to randomise the order of players on the board. A perfectly fair request so I asked myself 'where were Joe and ZFR on the board at this time'? If Joe is Hitler at number 3 or near that, then a fascist ZFR surely wouldn't ask for the playing order to be randomised because Hitler would already be in a very good position. If that's the case it would almost confirm ZFR as Liberal and mean my theory was nonsense.

So I pop over to:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/secret_hitler_2_signups

Low and behold Joe was place 9 and ZFR was place 7. Very bad positions for The Fascists if in fact Joe is Hitler and ZFR is Fascist. Could this be motivation for ZFRs re-roll request? It would make sense but on the other hand it's a reasonable request anyway.

We now we have 2 coincidences though. Firstly that the very last player is drawn at random (10% chance) and the second that the last player was 9th player when ZFR requested randomisation. These 2 positions tie into my ZFR/Joe scumteam theory all too well. This and the fact Random.org is a perfect tool to hide reasoning behind a vote.

@Joesaphire himself makes a good point I hadn't considered that the Chancellorship shouldn't be the President picking his own choice without any group input. The group should democratically decide on the best candidate.

The thing is I like ZFRs answer to my question. I generally doubt a fascist says he'll pass LL because it doesn't give him an out. And I like the fact he changed his decision to get group information. These are positives.

However if my ZFR as Fascist and Hitler at no10 theory is correct then ZFR would try to pass Lib policy anyway at this stage. According to the book Fascists best win condition is to get Hitler to Chancellorship. So essentially if he is Fascist his plan for this round is to pass Liberal policy.

By the sounds of it, I'm probably in the minority In Voting NO and maybe tunneling too hard but then again I might have found something here and I read ZFR as Fascist early in our first Secret Hitler game. If voting No stops Hitler getting credence I consider it a good move. Letting governments that you're suspicious of into power is bad play.

Isn't Flub essentially saying the same as yourself? You both seem to be in favour of testing players.

This is the strategy I employed in the former game. When I discarded and passed 2 LL it guaranteed Liberal policy was passed but the Liberal player RWarehall couldn't confirm himself and a fascist player ZFR managed to convince RWarehall I was Fascist because I did not test him.

Which is better strategy? I'm not entirely sure. Let's say RWarehall is fascist, he passes fascist policy and he blames me passing him 2 fascist cards. So while a fascist player gets discredited, a Liberal player also gets discredited. And we don't know who to trust as a result. We also lose a policy. So in theory we get information but in reality we may get confusion



Worst case scenario is actually not advantageous for Town. If we suspect 2 Liberals and 1 Fascist that leaves 3 fascists and 4 Liberals that we trust, which is a slightly worse ratio for town,ie 4:6 versus 3:4

So if we do get information we need to be very analytical and hope Fascists don't twist a web of lies confusing the Liberal masses.

Hmmmm noted.

Did you draw neutral lyncher again?

I won't sit here and be falsely accused of being serious you slanderous pigdog with elderberry skin tags!!!

oh no no no no no that's not what I meant.

What I meant was, seriously what is your role? Hitler? Liberal? Fascist?

Be honest now, you are compelled!

@zeo are we not meant to reveal votes?

Voting record is public but:

7. When you vote on a government (president + chancellor setup), PM your yes/no votes to me in secret. You are allowed to change this vote until everyone has voted. Once everybody’s voted, it will be revealed exactly who voted what, but until then, it’s hidden.

So that kind of implies we shouldn't reveal but I'm not sure I see the point in not revealing if we're discussing it anyway.

Out of game (i.e. this is ZFR talking, not Zeferendi something):
My order randomisation request was done before I knew my role, and was a genuine request to have all players have an equal chance at being President.

Back to game.