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General discussionSecret Hitler #2 - Everybody is a Star(1694 posts)(1694 posts)
(1694 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2019
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zeogold: Sorry about that. I was actually waiting for RT's vote, but it looks like it came in a couple days ago and GOG just wasn't showing it.
Oh good, I can go back to not having to do any work while waiting for this thing to end so I can get another fedora.

I better be paid, daaaahling!
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: How come when flub does it he gets scathing sarcasm, but then you go and do the same thing yourself?
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PookaMustard: He already explained and outlined why he chose me as chancellor before Flub nominated blotunga. He was also proposing to skip the governments until it got back to him. Still, your point stands that there wasn't much talking about why me.
Flub also explained why he'd nominate Blotunga before the thing happened. ZFR still expected discussion.


I've been trying to think about it, and IF ZFR is fascist and pooka is hitler, that means that ZFR

1. didn't attempt to find a reason to nominate pooka for the last government,

2. chose to elect lifthrasil for the express purpose of discrediting Joe.

3. Possibly wanted to discredit Joe for the express purpose of making Pooka seem electable.

It's laughable! It's ridiculous! It's totally unbelievable.


So what am I left with?

ZFR's a liberal whose sole reason for trusting pooka is that he can't understand why I'd get het up and act irrationally over lifthrasil being made chancellor...

Lifthrasil passed the 4th Liberal policy just to mess with my head? Or to cultivate trust from ZFR so that he could suggest Hitler for ZFR's next government. But he's not attempted much manipulation. Which is maybe why he's miffed that ZFR's acted so quickly.

The other three fascists have done what exactly? Everything that ZFR told them to do. Why?


---

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ZFR: *sigh* I still think Pooka is our safest non-Hitler bet.

I select Pooka Mustard as my Chancellor
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Lifthrasil: That was an awful quick nomination. I would have liked some discussion about who is least likely Hitler. So please, explain why you selected Pooka. And why you did so so quickly.
Sorry to ask twice in a row, but could you explain what your thoughts are here. It comes across that you're suspicious of ZFR's reasoning for wanting a quick nomination, is that right?
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: what's your thought's here lifthrasil ol' buddy? You don't think ZFR's got good enough reason for making his choice? Are you suspicious of ZFR's allegiances?
Well, a bit, of course, since I don't know his allegiance for sure. He was the strongest liberal player so far, but such a quick nomination looks strange since in my opinion Pooka wasn't the only choice. But still I think that ZFR is liberal and that he indeed has a good enough reason. I just would like to know which that is. Hence my question.

You know what, you could make it easier and just tell us whether Pooka is Hitler or not.
Posted February 26, 2019
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ZFR: *sigh* I still think Pooka is our safest non-Hitler bet.

I select Pooka Mustard as my Chancellor
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Lifthrasil: That was an awful quick nomination. I would have liked some discussion about who is least likely Hitler. So please, explain why you selected Pooka. And why you did so so quickly.
What. Do. You. Mean. Quick?

I wrote a wall of text 4 days ago. Written my analysis on why I'm going to nominate Pooka. Asked four thoughts. 3 times.

That's quick? How much time do you need???
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: what's your thought's here lifthrasil ol' buddy? You don't think ZFR's got good enough reason for making his choice? Are you suspicious of ZFR's allegiances?
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Lifthrasil: Well, a bit, of course, since I don't know his allegiance for sure. He was the strongest liberal player so far, but such a quick nomination looks strange since in my opinion Pooka wasn't the only choice. But still I think that ZFR is liberal and that he indeed has a good enough reason. I just would like to know which that is. Hence my question.

You know what, you could make it easier and just tell us whether Pooka is Hitler or not.
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ZFR:
ZFR, what do you make of ^ this?
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: What? What was your bait?
I hoped at least one of your fellow fascists would believe what Lift suggested might happen. That you actually stood a chance of having your government pass and so vote Yes for it too.
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: What? What was your bait?
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ZFR: I hoped at least one of your fellow fascists would believe what Lift suggested might happen. That you actually stood a chance of having your government pass and so vote Yes for it too.
Even after ACTUALLY EVERYBODY said they'd vote no you still thought maybe they'd go for it?

What do you make of what lifthrasil says above. Anything interest you?
Posted February 26, 2019
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Lifthrasil: Well, a bit, of course, since I don't know his allegiance for sure. He was the strongest liberal player so far, but such a quick nomination looks strange since in my opinion Pooka wasn't the only choice. But still I think that ZFR is liberal and that he indeed has a good enough reason. I just would like to know which that is. Hence my question.

You know what, you could make it easier and just tell us whether Pooka is Hitler or not.
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JoeSapphire: ZFR, what do you make of ^ this?
That he missed my three long posts after which I concluded I'd nominate Pooka and asked for discussion and feedback?

That fall on his head still affecting him??

I don't know, seriously.

Lift, what the heck?

@Joe, are you implying Lift is the scum and now trying to disrupt my government? I know you're clutching at straws, but seriously??

Either way, wouldn't Pooka be a good nomination in that case?
Posted February 26, 2019
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ZFR: @Joe, are you implying Lift is the scum and now trying to disrupt my government? I know you're clutching at straws, but seriously??
What would YOU think about your government if it turned out lifthrasil was fascist?

Your main reason for trusting pooka is that I thought he might be hitler.
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: Even after ACTUALLY EVERYBODY said they'd vote no you still thought maybe they'd go for it?
Honestly? no. After everyone said no I thought your buddies will vote NO too. But still hoped.

I wish more libs gave a plausible suggestion they might vote YES too, hence having your buddies out themselves.
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: Even after ACTUALLY EVERYBODY said they'd vote no you still thought maybe they'd go for it?
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ZFR: Honestly? no. After everyone said no I thought your buddies will vote NO too. But still hoped.

I wish more libs gave a plausible suggestion they might vote YES too, hence having your buddies out themselves.
ignoring-your-insessant-passive-affirmations-that-I-am-fascist bump
Posted February 26, 2019
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ZFR: @Joe, are you implying Lift is the scum and now trying to disrupt my government? I know you're clutching at straws, but seriously??
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JoeSapphire: What would YOU think about your government if it turned out lifthrasil was fascist?

Your main reason for trusting pooka is that I thought he might be hitler.
Good question (I'm serious, not sarcastic here).

Believe me, I did consider both possibilities. On the off-chance that you are liberal, Lift has to be fascist, which according to my theorem I've written earlier shows that Pooka can't be (vanilla) fascist.

Can Pooka be Hitler?
In that case he passed FFF to Lift (if he got an L, Hitler would attempt to pass it and Lift would help him). Investigated a lib!blotunga and confirmed him so as not to create conflict.
Thiking of it now, this could then explain why scum!Lift who discarded the last L chose to create a conflict with you, rather then blotunga: he didn't want Hitler!Pooka to suffer due to his association with blotunga.

hmmm...
OK, I admit. If Lift is scum then my argument that Pooka must be non-Hitler does get weakened. However:
1) Lift didn't know at the time he was chancellor that I'm going to choose Pooka. Heck, even I didn't know it. He couldn't have orchestrated passing an L in order to have Pooka selected by me.
2) Scum would not have allowed Pooka to be in a heavy F government which was very likely to pass an F. Yet they did. This was my first argument that Pooka is not Hitler, before it got superseded by the stronger argument that you accused him.


Well, that is my analysis.
Posted February 26, 2019
WELL, unfortunately I don't have time to wait for ZFR to explain his thinking which is a shame because I was hoping it would shed some light on ZFR's allegiance.


I present my argument for the case of lifthrasil-is-lying-fascist:


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Lifthrasil: Well, a bit, of course, since I don't know his allegiance for sure.
A BIT SUSPICIOUS OF ZFR???

This is the fictional liberal who investigated a fascist (Joe), told everybody that the fascist was fascist, and generally got told that people trusted the fascist (Joe) over him. UNTIL ZFR nominated him for chancellor and gives himself the chance to prove himself AND prevents everybody from trusting his confirmed fascist for the rest of the game.

How can that guy, FICTIONAL THOUGH HE IS, ever have a bit of suspicion about ZFR's allegiance?



---


what does thinking lifthrasil is fascist get us?

1 Maybe we shouldn't be so trusting of pooka,

EXCEPT that lifthrasil's trying to argue with it after the fact which YEAH I can't understand why he would if ZFR and pooka were fascist unless it's autopilot try-to-look-liberal mode (I can't seem to find the switch for mine) or simply an attempt to try and drive Joe insane.

2 If it turns out that pooka isn't hitler but is fascist, it might stop ZFR from executing me. But then me pointing that out probably undermines that somewhat.

3 We can try to judge by what ZFR thinks of lifthrasil whether ZFR is fascist, which is rather the more pressing question which I am still having so much trouble answering. But he's not around and I need to go to bed and if I go to bed I might wake up in the morning and everybody's voted aready.


I guess it comes back to - Would fascist lifthrasil pass an L in Liberal ZFR's government?

Compared to

Would fascist lifthrasil argue over fascist ZFR's choice of government?

Either way, fascist lifthrasil's done both of them...




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ZFR:
ZFR - how dangerous do you think it would be to skip your government?



Right. It's late. I need to go home. I have no idea whether this is the winning move or the losing move but I need to stop thinking about it because I'm going to hurt myself.



AAAAAAAND here's ZFR's reply. dang.



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JoeSapphire: What would YOU think about your government if it turned out lifthrasil was fascist?

Your main reason for trusting pooka is that I thought he might be hitler.
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ZFR: Good question (I'm serious, not sarcastic here).

Believe me, I did consider both possibilities. On the off-chance that you are liberal, Lift has to be fascist, which according to my theorem I've written earlier shows that Pooka can't be (vanilla) fascist.

Can Pooka be Hitler?
In that case he passed FFF to Lift (if he got an L, Hitler would attempt to pass it and Lift would help him). Investigated a lib!blotunga and confirmed him so as not to create conflict.
Thiking of it now, this could then explain why scum!Lift who discarded the last L chose to create a conflict with you, rather then blotunga: he didn't want Hitler!Pooka to suffer due to his association with blotunga.

hmmm...
OK, I admit. If Lift is scum then my argument that Pooka must be non-Hitler does get weakened. However:
1) Lift didn't know at the time he was chancellor that I'm going to choose Pooka. Heck, even I didn't know it. He couldn't have orchestrated passing an L in order to have Pooka selected by me.
2) Scum would not have allowed Pooka to be in a heavy F government which was very likely to pass an F. Yet they did. This was my first argument that Pooka is not Hitler, before it got superseded by the stronger argument that you accused him.

Well, that is my analysis.
Okay.

Okay.

None of it makes sense but.

I'm going to trust ZFR??? Again??? Dispite how much pain that seems to put me through.


In response to your adendae

1) yes, it only makes sense if you're fascist too, but the fact that you've stopped insisting I'm fascist for 40 seconds makes me totally trust you, possibly because I'm a sucky moron.
2) This is diminished slightly when you take into account, firstly it was the first decision pooka made it what was apparently the first secret hitler game ever, and secondly when you consider that what the heck are the fascists in this game doing? They don't seem to be even trying!

Unless it's you! ARGH.

I've made my decision. If you respected me enough to flatter me so that I'd take your side and that makes me lose the game then the brief moment of respect will still be worth it.



If thinking about this game too much tonight kills me, I bequeath my gogs to flubbucket.
Posted February 26, 2019
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Lifthrasil: That was an awful quick nomination. I would have liked some discussion about who is least likely Hitler. So please, explain why you selected Pooka. And why you did so so quickly.
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ZFR: What. Do. You. Mean. Quick?

I wrote a wall of text 4 days ago. Written my analysis on why I'm going to nominate Pooka. Asked four thoughts. 3 times.

That's quick? How much time do you need???
Sorry. Yes, you wrote about Pooka. And yes, probably you're right. If he is a Fascist, he's probably a regular one and not Hitler. At least I hope so. I just expected you to go over it again, after being actually the acting president. You know, asking for additional input before making the nomination final. But I'll go along with your nomination. With the same plan that we spoke about when you considered nominating Scene. If Pooka turns out to be Fascist and passes an F although you hand him FL, then kill him and trent can select me as Chancellor.

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JoeSapphire: How can that guy, FICTIONAL THOUGH HE IS, ever have a bit of suspicion about ZFR's allegiance?
Come on, drop the act. You know well that a Liberal can never be 100% sure, unless he gets and investigation result. Unless someone's alignment is confirmed by the mod, like in your case. If you were Liberal, you would also try to conserve some doubt about everyone. Of course ZFR's play wouldn't make sense if he were Fascist. So he is most likely Liberal (which I also wrote, what you conveniently ignored). But 'most likely' is not 100% sure.

But somehow you give off genuine panic vibes with your back and forth and picking the bits out of my posts that are convenient for you. So probably Pooka is Liberal and you are just now panicking because you see a 50% chance of the game ending in a loss for you with this government. (the 50% being the chance that ZFR draws an L).

So, thanks, I guess, for the involuntary confirmation that Pooka is a good choice. I'm going to vote YES.
Posted February 26, 2019
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JoeSapphire: ....
All the signs point at you being a fascist, but you’re play makes me think you’re really Liberal. Are you really Hitler? I don’t expect you to answer that, I’m just wondering if I’ve read some things wrong.

*sigh* I just don’t know anymore. I’m going to vote yes for the current government, we can’t take a chance on a random draw that leans heavily toward being an F policy.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSecret Hitler #2 - Everybody is a Star(1694 posts)(1694 posts)
(1694 posts)