Ok, you posted the bad scenarios. How about a scenario where both me and Lift are liberals? It's possible right? So as the good liberals that you are, you should consider this scenario, too, and post the best line of play in this case. Come on, we are waiting.

You want the best line of play?
You mostly absolved Lift outside of the remote chance you are both fascists.

Both of you being liberal doesn't seem very likely given that no one opposed you going to 3-0. Even Brasas passed a liberal policy. So who's the fascists? Scene, Dedo, Kusu and Blotunga? or ZFR, Adalia, Blotunga and I? Pick a combination and explain to me how we get here without much opposition and how we get to you two as liberals?

Just saying...you can say what you want, but there is a high chance you can be Hitler.

There is one course of action and one only...
We have to be done testing, can't afford to bury an L or another L.

Lift needs to choose the person he trusts most to be liberal and win the game for us. And if we are unlucky and both you and him are fascists, then we have to hope you didn't burying all the L's.

If anyone opposed the Lift-me government at that point, he would immediately be branded as fascist.

Now, the person I trust most to be Lift's chancellor is brasas. And if Lift draws FFF, we'll find out who will vote yes to a brasas president - me chancellor government. That's my plan.

You should NEVER become chancellor after 3F...
That is a terrible plan.
The fact you are suggesting such speaks volumes.

As to who Lift picks, I'd rather leave that up to Lift.
But the Scene, Greek, Dedo, Brasas team does check all the boxes as to how we arrive to this point with all the agreement. At least one of them in every government.

I don't like Brasas as a choice. Way too many people suggesting him as their choice...but if Lift sees it that way, up to him.

@RW: nice summary and I actually agree with it. Greek as regular fascist is basically excluded. That leaves Liberal-Liberal or Hitler-Liberal (or, for you, Hitler-Fascist) as possible combinations for Greek-Lift.

So, how do we proceed. Do we cycle presidency directly to me and I try to find a liberal chancellor? I agree with greek, that that's a good plan. Or did you imply with your 'eligible for chancelorship' the idea to try another president with me as chancellor before the presidency cycles to me? But that would be power play again and do you trust me enough for that? And do we have any trustworthy president candidate before me? I actually would prefer to cycle the presidency directly to me.


@Scene: I don't exactly understand what you wanted to say with the 11% chance of having discarded a liberal card. Did you mean the chance that you have drawn 3L and that that was the reason why you passed 2L along?

Brasas, please come here and slap Lift. He's saying that me being Hitler is a possible scenario.

How do you plan to achieve that exactly? Between Lift and Brasas there are four other presidents, meaning you'd need at least one more between them.

I get a bad feeling about this whole situation but I'm not sure there is much we can do. I'm leaning more and more towards the possiblity greek, Lift, Brasas and dedo are the fascist team but it could well just be paranoia...
This all just seems a bit too easy, but it wouldn't take much for a couple of well hidden fascists to turn it around and that's what worries me the most.

Here's my feelings of what has possibly happened;
Greek is Hitler, he gets the first presidency and is pretty much guaranteed to pass. He's been reading the guides so he knows what to do, he needs to appear liberal but also to find his buddies. So he passes 1F and 1L to test scene (who he chose because he thought his 'pick me as chancellor' post might have been a message).
scene passes an L. At this point greek now looks pretty liberal so this is a win for him.
He's locked out of second government and this one passes another L putting us 2-0.
Greek is now the obvious choice for the next chancellor in Lift's presidency. If Lift is fascist too he could pass 2F to Greek, but that might blacklist him. He could pass him 1L and 1F but greek wouldn't know it would be safe to pass the F as he wouldn't know at this point that Lift is fascist. So really the only choice is to pass an L to maintain greek's cover succesfully.
Then dedo manages to get into government and pass an F policy, and uses his investigation to clear Brasas.
But this is where things fall apart a bit. It's very unlikely Brasas drew 2L so that government could well have passed an F. And if we assume greek's 'I know what you're up to Brasas!' was a message and he assumed he was fascist then they could have coordinated something. But again it would risk blacklisting greek.
So did greek pass the 4th L policy knowing his presidency would be next and he would pick Lift as chancellor? Had he figured out enough of the fascist team to risk the whole game if he drew 2 Ls?
Assuming the odds were with him greek could be fairly certain to draw only 1L max, which he could easily bury on the off chance Lift wasn't fascist. But then he investigates him to know for sure, unfortunately this becomes WIFOM again as he's unlikely to cause a conflict with Lift and risk getting himself removed from the running.


But there is also the possibility that they are both genuine liberals and the fascists have just made a balls of things and been unlucky with the order / cards. If greek and Lift are genuine then I would bet scene isn't, though I'm at a loss as to who his team mates would be.


Anyway, as originally stated, I don't really see what else we can do. I think we need to go to Lift and just hope they're Liberals (and the cards are in our favour).

@Lift why are you stating I drew 3L and passed 2L along when I stated I drew 2L and 1F and passed 2L along? Strange insinuation there.

So you're saying it's 45% chance or higher that Greek is Fascist? Ofcourse you have to contrast that with all the Liberal moves Greek made earlier in the game

I've always disagreed and given my reasons for insuring a Lib policy was passed by passing 2 Lib cards but that in turn a fascist may do to smear a Lib, those are given, nothing is proven or unproven from that action. There's no evidence a Lib would take other action, and that got Libs to 3-0 in the first place, 2-1 would make Liberal win much harder with all the Fascist Cards.

As for the 78% I was working off the rounded up percentage chances already given.

I don't see how Fascists voting against their own interests in order to seem Liberal necessarily makes candidates seem Fascist.

You know what I think now? I think that fascists agreed to that Lift-me government so that they could promote this "at least one of them is fascist" angle and be ready to present their scenarios where I am Hitler at this point. You aren't doing anything else but posting 1001 reasons why I am Hitler and how things happened. Well, you aren't convincing anyone.

The line of play I suggest is

Lift-brasas
Brasas-me
Dedo-Lift

If you have a better candidate for chancellor in case the score goes 4-3, mention him now.

@Lift after re-reading your post, I'll explain. The 11% chance I discarded an L card was off the Dedoporno presidency and the likelyhood he drew LLF. I think the LLL chance for my presidency was much lower than that and around 1% from recollection

The next government has to be Lift-Scene

Statistically you have a 45% chance of being fascist (RWarehall argues higher) but at least that.

Now you're calling for not Scene, who is the least likely to have discarded a liberal card but Dedoporno who has a 34% chance of being fascist. And Brasas who is reliant on both you and Dedoporno being Liberal, so again low percentage chances.

Any of you could be Liberal but this is not a logical Liberal argument.

Ah, I see.

I didn't insinuate anything. I asked you to explain your statement. Why do you read an insinuation there? I asked, how you meant the 11% chance that you have buried an L.


@Greek: yes, I'm saying that is still possible. Not likely, but I can't rule out that you might be a Hitler who took great risks to appear Liberal. Of course having passed 3 of the L policies really speaks for you. But unlike you, I don't have that 100% confirmation of anyones alignment.

I tend to agree to the Lift-Brasas part (although we still have plenty of time to discuss chancellors). After that, if there is an after that, we'll see. If I draw 3F that wouldn't tell much about Brasas. But in the hypothetical case that I pass along 1F1L and Brasas passes the F - then I surely wouldn't make him the next president! So it's too early to fix on 'Brasas-you'.

@RW: I actually understand the reason to suspect fould play somewhere in the dedo-Scene-Brasas area. So yes, Brasas could still be fascist. However, he could also be Liberal (speaking for him: he participated in passind the 4-th L and dedo investigated him, whatever that may be worth). dedo would be a worse candidate. Because if Brasas is fascist, so is dedo. kusu and blotunga are way too silent to be readable. And with adalia, ZFR and you it really has been an up and down with how I read you. Each could be paranoid Liberal (as adalia stated it) or fascist trying to create as much doubt as possible. I don't know.

But luckily I don't have to decide yet. First kusu has to nominate a chancellor, so that we can start voting on the current government before talking about the one after the next.

And one wonders what Brasas would have to gain by passing an L instead of an F...
And quite amazing how Dedo earns your trust when all he's done is pass a fascist policy.

I think it a little strange how you talked up how you were doing your best to convince a fascist Brasas to pass a liberal policy yet once he did, you now think he's confirmed. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

I suggest you go back through the thread and pay more attention to who was president and who chancellor. Also, when analyzing Hitler possibilities, Hitler never has to worry about his policies not getting passed. Every liberal will pass L's and so will the fascists to keep their Hitler in play. Thus, the feedback Hitler gets back should look the same regardless.

I'm not completely ruling out the chance Greek is Hitler and Lift a fascist, but I also don't like the way both Dedo and Scene voted for Kusu's government. I certainly don't like Scene and his actions. Since those are the 3 choices for next president, trusting Lift for the next government seems the best option.

That, and since it was Scene and Brasas seemingly pushing everything toward Dedo, a Scene/Dedo/Greek/Brasas combo fits better than both together. A Hitler Greek, not being totally sure Brasas is part of his team and not wanting to risk a dispute, would still be very likely to pass a 4th L and Brasas certainly wouldn't want to lay any tarnish on Hitler. Both wouldn't want to jeopardize Greek's upcoming presidency where he has control of the narrative and can gain/eat an investigation.

Substituting Kusu for Brasas isn't out of the question either and I like that more than a Greek/Lift++ super team. Greek still would have a problem with a dispute at 4L and be forced to pass it to get to his presidency.

Am I blind or the result of lift investigation isn't reported yet? Can find it in wall of texts

Also I'll wait till we have some words about my turn, if we're going to pass it or what.