If you have a minute, what you thinking of voting?

OK, I'm back and finally have time to type and a proper keyboard to do so.

@kusu
First of all, sorry, you're right. I made a mistake. I believe I made the best decision in choosing my Chancellor (the only one not term limited who was tested and passed a liberal policy) and this choice seemed so natural that I just made it. You're right though that, I should have still told everyone about it, before making it official so quickly.


Now, to explain the reason why I suported RWarehall in my previous quick posts.
Initally I selected Scene as explained above, however his reaction to it and accusations (hey Scene, I'm still waiting for that list of people I supposedly accused of being fascist, or the questions I have purposely not answered...) made me suspect that he could be fascist.
Now, if we assume that Scene is fascist, then RW has to be liberal. By both their admissions, RW was passed 2 liberal policies. And there is no way this could happen if both were fascist buddies. They would instead claim that FL was passed to the chancellor was "tested" and vetted.
But... I do realize that Scene might be libera who genuinely believes he's going after a fascist. As RW wrote "I've seen enough uninformed town going at each other in the past that it's a definite possibility". If Scene is liberal, RW is no longer cleared by the above reasoning and could be fascist.

What I want everyone to realize though, is that if my government fails (and it looks like it will), the situation becomes either-or. We can't risk chaos. Therefore if you are voting NO for dedo, you are effectively voting YES for RWarehall. Don't go later saying "I didn't want to vote for RW's government, but it was either him or chaos so I had no choice." You had the choice when you voted no for dedo.

Regarding 1, I already gave my explanations on why I did it. But I find it ironic that you find it "highly suspicious" given the situation you are in now and have two words: pot, kettle.

Regarding 2, why would it be "highly suspicious" not to want to commit oneself before being given more information??
For example, a Presidents selects a Chancellor and is suspicious of player X. But after the voting, it turns out player Y voted suspiciously. Wouldn't it be better to having a discussion there and then on whom to investigate, instead of already being commited to X?
Besides, if I were really a fascist, wouldn't it be simply easy for me to just say "Yeah, I'm going to investingate Brasas if a fascist policy is passed". Would that declaration all of a sudden make me less suspicious? And would you then believe me if I say "Brasas is fascist" or "Brasas is liberal"? Or would anyone else believe me for that matter? After all, I was just part of the government that passed a fascist plicy.

So yeah, please explain on how refusing to commit to a person to investigate is "highly suspicious"?

Now I have responded in detail; I have always outlined my thought process and I have given detailed explanations on why I have made the decesions that I made.

So could you now do me the courtesy and explain the accusations you made against me? Because so far you have stated them at least twice already, without any details, and when asked for clarifications and explanations you just accused me of "not answering questions".

By the way, what I wrote above about making a choice applies to you too. I'm no longer treating your "NO" as default "I always vote no and it doesn't matter because everyone else votes YES anyway" NO. You are facing a ZFR or (Dedo or RWarehall) choice and you just made your decision.

If your government fails would you be rooting for myself or RW in order to avoid chaos? Why?

I'm more inclined towards RWarehall, for the reasons explained above, and not because I have anything against you in particular.

If Scene does something to make me sure he's fascist, then I'm 100% voting for RWarehall.

As of right now, I'm still not completely decided. But if I do vote NO for you it will be with a full conviction that I'm voting YES for RW.

Nah, don't worry too much. Generally I agree with the strategy Lith proposes to us. It's just that I'm gonna take it one step at a time and see how it roll, instead of rushing to the 'safe bet'.

Which is why I post my question on what we should do with next two governments. I don't even know what I want to do yet, staying on course or pick entirely new people


That's kinda what happened back then when I choose you XD

Yeah, and I didn't mean to make any hard accusations back then, just a tentative NO, till you explained yourself. Then all of a sudden that thing blew out of proportion.

Looks like things tend to blow up when you're in elections :p

Seriously though, that turn was very interesting. Either a liberal pointing out a probably Hitler / Fascist or a very cunning Fascist using the chance to cut off a strong liberal from the game. We wouldn't know until the game ends

I think voting is good. :-)

Which is why I voted long ago, if that was your question, right after I explained what vote I would find sensible and why.

Let's just make a timely reminder remember that I find outright lying (do I need to say bluffing?) about the vote legitimate Liberal strategy. Of course it more often is scummy...

But:

1 - my vote might not matter. I can't double-check my file right now but I think you, RW and blotunga are the only yes votes. Even if Cristi is a replacement and you get one change the tie defaults to No.

2 - When I gave my reads list my pref was dedo then RW/you. Assuming Scene as chancellor for all, blah blah.
2.1 - Unfortunately for me that preference is very tight, so even small actions you guys do makes me wonder at re-ranking. Which I have waffled on hugely already actually as you all respond and post, etc...
2.2 - All 3 of you I'd prefer to a Crisit or Blotunga led team. For me ofc the choice of who the Yes vote should be on the last 3 before we are back to president Greek is duh, I know I'm Liberal.
2.3 - A purely mathematical aspect of voting Yes to Your gov is that Cristi must be the president if we want to have only 2 governments before we get back to president Greek.

So even if I start finding you more reliable than RW or Dedo, I'm mostly sure I should vote no. Because it increases the chance of a better outcome in the government before President Greek, and the risk of a worst outcome of the one before that (ZFR/dedo/RW) is IMO not substantially higher.


Anyway, as from tomorrow I'll have time to read, and upon a cursory examination of the long post you did before this one at me it was more focused - can you please post your reads for everyone? I didn't ask earlier as honestly I was more interested in reads of ppl I have played with or otherwise know better.


Found it, was even in a reply to me...

It's posts like this that make me believe you are not what you claim. If you were a liberal, you'd realize how impossible it is to spot Hitler (because I've been trying to think up creative ways to do so). You'd also have a greater appreciation of how difficult it is to spot a fascist and how much guesswork is involved. There usually is no "probably" about it, just hair-pulling and doubt. That said, I now do have you in the "probably fascist" camp, but it took this slip of yours to do it.

I'll see what I can do, but as I said in my previous mafia game, I don't like to do "reads" in the sense "A is 60% townie, while the B is 90% scum..." Instead it's more statements like "if X then A is townie and if (Y & Z) but not (W) then B is likely scum", then see which of these statements check out.
And I've been posting those statements/observations openly since the game started...

Anyway, I'm travelling again till Friday. Going to be busy again.

@Brasas. I just thought of something. The one thing I never understood that kept bothering me a bit is Brasas' default NO votes. My initial gut feeling was town...

But what if the purpose of those was so that when Brasas makes a decisive NO vote it doesn't stand out so much.
And come to think of it, it actually did happen. Kusu+ZFR government failed by one vote. I analyzed how everyone voted, but Brasas' no I sort of just dismissed as natural.

So Brasa, it's a bit late to ask this, but how wiuld you have voted if you knew your vote was decisive ( which it was).

Not standing out as a strategy would have been me voting Yes... the opposite of what I did. I think you are pulling at straws. And I'm very tempted to see that as you trying to distract from attention drawn to your buddy kusu... and/or yourself... because really, YOUR No vote was the decisive one considering you were actually on the ballot, but spotlight on you is the last think you need now right?

Anyway, the straight answer is ofc still No. The whole point has been to have more votes to analyse, and back then I had no reason to prefer Kusu to Scene or Lift. I think I even wrote it back then that I was ok with giving Lift carte blanche.

Just like now I'm still thinking there is no real upside or downside to flunking your and dedo's team and giving RW carte blanche. Not sure I still prefer dedo to RW but heck... I'd likely still vote Yes to either.