Where?

About the random.org thing dude.

...

OK, but these speculations, just like the ones against you or other players. Putting it in the same clear-cut-lying bucket as greek who admitted to purposely lying and scene who was caught lying in several posts is a bit of a stretch.

I won't repeat my arguments from above since we'll just start going with circles. If I find that thread where I mentioned I use random.org professionally, I'll post it here for completeness sake. Otherwise, all the posts are there for others to see. Let them make up their minds if it was a lie or not.

Granted, this might indeed be a case of apophenia as you previously mentioned. Which is why as you've read I said "SEEMS to be lying" rather that "lied".

As it seems we're having a vote on Chancellor options for Lift, the only choice for me (other than myself) would be Brasas with the evidence at hand. Following that it'd be between Dedo/Kusu. Greek would be first/second if available.

Testing anyone I suspect of being fascist would result in my No vote and my lobby to get a No vote.

Apologies to all as I haven't been available this weekend

I'm quite tired but here;s the long due reply. Apologize for not eign most readbale - no time to polish.

Just to be clear, the implicit he for "insists on defneding scene" is me or Dedo? I assume me, and if so saying I insist on defending Scene is a stretch.

Heh, this is weird. In fact this whole back and forth you two are doing is weird. Too tired to pursue ti now.

The numbers are the post umber reference.

I won't hunt the post number where Lift asked us to vote if we wanted him to go with me as chancellor, or if someone else who. That's the first vote I'm tallying.

A few people preferred the not me option and suggested themeselves. So then the idea is to not choose ourselves and who we would choose. That's the second vote I'm tallying. But I already see a problem that there will eb many votes for myself that won't tell us much. Maybe would be best to say except for me and yourself, who would you choose.

I don't know. If you are found to be a fascist will everyone ask to remove Lift from future govs? I don't think I would reflexively choose that.

Let's get a few things clear.

1 - I don't actually believe ZFR used random.org
2 - my case against ZFR is the shitposting more than the lying, forget about the lying and he was pissed from being under attack and so he went "fuck this" in a super scummy way. You all seem to not give a shit about that, but to me that is Alignment Indicative - Liberal ZFR would not do that IMO. End of story.
3 - You and RW have dug your own holes. Your lack of reaction to being named by ZFR like that as his scum buddies, plus the way you actually aligned your game plan with him (much more RW than you - which is why I still have some doubts about you, whereas for RW much less) is why I am suspicious of you. Not because you were named by ZFR.

Bah. You flat out admit you are scum and people don't give a shit. Then stuff like you using random.org seems to make them care. I have no idea what are nits or not in this crowd. But yes, you are reading stuff and feeling addressed when you are not the one being addressed. You are over-defensive. I'm not saying that's scummy on its own. But it is what it is. I mean, you are defending from attacks that are not even attacks (I don't think stirring the post is that bad) nor on you. If those gold bars avatar are nto on the Mafia dictionary for over defensive I don't know what is.

Too much stuff here. Let's see if I manage concise.

1 - Of course you had bias then. You had info from being a Fash.
2 - You know when people use sarcasm? When they feel arrogant / dismissive. Was that how you were feeling ZFR?
3 - I disagree you cracking and you going for mindfuckery are mutually exclusive. Hence why the names you drew didn't matter to me until their reactions and play started aligning so much.
4 - the obvious reason for you to name buddies truthfully but lie about Hitler, is that you were telling the true Hitler who to align with.
5 - you didn't fully give up on the game, you pulled a wild gambit and waited to see what happens from the sidelines. Were you surprised RW supported you so strongly instead of bussing you?
6 - I haven't been scum with RW like ever. I have no idea what his approach to bussing his. Bussing is a tricky thing for scum and there are people that absolutely refuse to do it.
7 - RW was not on everyone's good graces.

Overall, the thing you seem to not get is that I don't need some perfect theory. I need a working theory. I don't have hidden information to help me, but I still need a guideline to play - who to trust, who not to trust. You are raising nitpicks, potential logical holes which I can't cover because obviously I can't know for sure why you or other Fs are doing / did what they did. I have a theory, and that theory does not require you all to be a perfectly oiled machine as there is no scum chat, and it does not require you to be either a perfect crackpot, or a perfect mastermind.

I think he half-lied. I think he decided to try something wild. A gambit. Greek didn't draw anyone else into his joke.
The emotions behind telling someone:
Yes I'm H, please no more walls of text.
Are very different from:
Yes I'm F with so so and so. Have fun.

I keep calling what ZFR did shitposting because that is the key aspect to my read. ZFR told me to fuck off in a very particular way. The lie, if that's what it was, because he is bold enough to have given us 100% truth is almost incidental to me.

And of course I am applying different measures - they are different people. I am fairly certain of what ZFR did, from projecting what I rem of my first scum game into what he did. Greek I have no fucking clue, I have no idea who he is as a person. If you think I am sure Greek is Liberal you are wrong, and if given the choice I would avoid to give him chancellorship if we get to 3Fs.

Hey everyone, I'm here. It seems I have so much to go through, I'll try to catch up now.

Eh. greek's lashing out at me when I suggested his joke was LAMIST (plus other instances) and scene's attacks against me when I (and dedo) wrote that passing an L could mean a fascist is trying to pass as liberal are not over-defensive, but my post above is? Okay..

No, these two are mutually exclusive. Trying to pull a gambit requires planning, forward thinking and at least a sketchy strategy. A "fuck this" is the exact opposite.

You just admitted your theory doesn't add up but you'll overlook it. You haven't really addressed any of the major flaws I pointed out. Basically "I have a hypothesis, and if facts don't agree with the hypothesis then screw the facts." Eh, as I said before I'll stop here because this is going in circles. Let everyone read and make up their minds.

Boy, I do feel like I'm a part of a council, you guys talked. That was a long-ass read.


It is, but it often can be a second wind for that person as they have a very good excuse for a seemingly sudden change of behavior/beliefs/whatever - something especially useful in moment where the original slot occupant got exposed and cornered almost to the point of no return.


I have one pretty good guess why.


They aren't and you know it. It's too late to distance, friend ;)


Oh noes!


To be honest, I'd love to see that ending up being true. One more pro-Greek reason for me :D


Oscar-winning one, too. I'm with ZFR on that particular topic - her entrance in an almost lost cause deserves nothing but respect and admiration. If I didn't know better I'd be harder lib-reader her than Brasas ;P


Yes, please!


And that comes from the same guy who wanted to lynch based off dice throws?
#LOL@adalia!!


Well, we do have 2 people who can vouch for one additional person - greek and myself. Greek's vouchee is already 1/2 of the suggested gov, so why not fill the rest with the other such person which is Brasas? Alternatively, I would also do a great Chancellor.

That said, I'm not a fan of randomizing the candidate but I'm burdened by having a 100% legit choice so in my eyes everything else is a lesser option and an unnecessary risk.


I apologize for not delivering on that - I thought I'd be able to at least get a read every now and again but I couldn't until just now. Anyway, now you have my stance, too.

Wait, wait, wait. Something just struck me as I was going to bed.

I accepted the your explanation, but I just thought of something.

Now, in post 1257 you were OK with my nomination, despite the theories you mentioned about me being Hitler or fascist:
"And from the pool of eligible fascist/Hitler candidates, among scene/brasas/dedo/zfr again anyone would do - except from scene,"

Then in post 1272 you wrote:
"I'm now against a ZFR nomination. I'd rather take the risk that eg. one of you might not be liberal. And I formally nominate myself."

So something happened in between that made you change your mind. In post 1272 you did mention that what changed your mind was thinking it's "very very unlikely" random.org would have picked the names it and you find it suspicious.

So far, so good. The above is just a reminder of the background situation. But let's look at post 1272 more closely.

_ You quoted Brasas's post 1260, and said it's a very good point against me.
_ Later you said you didn't notice me mentioning I used random.org. That the ".org" slipped your mind. (I found it odd, but after all it was a lot of posts for you to read, maybe you did miss it...)

But Brasas's post 1260 doesn't mention ".org" either. It just says 'randomly'.

What. The. Heck? Were you just caught lying?

So again I'm repeating my question: what happened between post 1257 and 1272 that made you change your mind about me? And don't tell me it's you discovering I used random.org and thus its results are suspicious. Because. That. Is. Simply. Not. True.

It seems that everyone is tired and liberals and fascists together accept brasas to finish the game. Not me:) A Lift-brasas government is the same as a me-brasas government so I don't mind waiting for another round to reduce the chance of Hitler if FFF now.
I don't see a Zfr-ash-adalia camp anye so no reason to pick from them. Maybe they distanced themselves to increase their chances of getting picked, maybe they didn't. I don't care at the moment and I think it is irrelevant.
I don't want dedo because if he's fascist, I don't know if I or anyone else will accept brasas for the next government, and I don't want to risk ruining his election.
Scene has been pretty consistent in his trust for me and Lift and I don't think he is acting. He seems to have decided early about his allies and keep to it I am happy that he picked the right ones.

I vote Scene.

Do you really think an indirect Tu Quoque (that others have done same as you - being over defensive) disproves my argument?
Do you really think a semi direct Ad Hominem (that I am scummy for not attacking others like I attack you) disproves my argument?

This is not even weak tea. This is tepid bath water.

Let's be clear, I am not the only player in this game - I am not under any obligation to dedicate equal amount of attention to all players - my attention is not an infinite resource...
Let me be clear, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you about anyone else being or not being over-defensive.

I still disagree. Embrace the power of AND!

Planning, forward thinking and a sketchy strategy can be built around a Fuck, especially coming from a tight spot under pressure. No one is saying the plan and strategy (the mindfuckery) were brilliant - that's you trying to draw out a false dichotomy trap. Whereas I believe truth is somewhere in the grey middle.

What I admitted is that I am not perfect nor have perfect knowledge. My, what a revelation!
I don't see any major flaws. I see nitpicks. I don't see any facts that disprove the hypothesis.

What I do see is you banking on some kind of Nirvana fallacy to continue to seed doubt.
Perfect is the enemy of the good. And the good is: there is no one in the game scummier than you.

And yet despite the planning and forward thinking, I still thought giving up exactly two of my teammates (when 1 would still achieve the same effect but at a much lower risk) is a good idea?
OK...
Tight spot under pressure can cause to make such a big mistake? Read my whole post again. That wall of text took some time to write. Does it even sound like the post of someone writing under pressure who can't even make rudimentary good decisions?

I agree. Lift said he's gone on Sunday so hopefully he's back soon and make a nomination.

For the record, with the recent updates, if not me then my preferences for chancellor are:
_ Anyone but scene.
_ Ash is probably a bad idea too.
_ Lurkers OK, but why, when better options exist.

So:

(ZFR) then (adalia, Brasas, dedo) then (kusu, blotunga) then (ash) then (random) then (scene)