This is blatant misrep... not only are you apparently conflating two different things Greek did, but...

The lol was Greek, not me. By all means keep pushing him, it would be interesting if you didn't lie at all when you flipped the table.

And you are reaching if you want to now make a point I have overeacted to your shitposting. You let I don't know how much time pass and this is the time you want to argue that? I have for ages been very clear my scum read of you depends on that and that RW's uncritical defense of you likewise clinched my read on him.

And I have asked on a few occasions for others to help me if they think I'm tunneling. Nary a peep.

But now I'm clinging to it. Yeah right...

Pity. I'm not asking you to answer, I'm asking you to analyze. As his alt you have an external perspective as easily as the rest of us.

You did have a chance to distance from any past mistakes of RW, after all as Liberal there's so much wrong one can assume...

Not sure to be disappointed or not how close you "cling" to his... script.

I mean, whatever, I can see this is not going anywhere, so please continue to push Greek with ZFR. I'll get some popcorn... again.

How to put it...

1 - Lift is a big boy and I'm sure he'll answer my questions, but slack is the last thing I should give him.
2 - I have not stated any preference for a next government after Lift's. There was an explicit conditional about Lift distrusting you in my questioning him.

I lied? Where? You mean the lol? Yes that was his not yours., my mistake. But the response was yours. It's there one page ago.

I quoted him exactly and your response and dismissal of his shitposting is there for all to see. No lies.

Funny how from all the text I wrote you only clinged to the "lie" of extra lol. No response about greek's play? Can you maybe tell me how making a confusing message, lying about it, lying again and finally saying it was trolling (which probably is a lie too) is sound liberal play?

I dislike the Brasas option, I think he's tied too close to greek and the way greek has fallen apart even further in the last few pages makes me even more certain he's Hitler.

Come on, he's even suggesting we randomly make a decision, what self respecting townie would do that!
(it's a shame that Lift is probably the only one here who will get that...)

So my choice is path 2 and me. I know I'll pass an L so we should have the game in the bag.

This now bordering on disingenuous mate...

First, I have not dismissed his "shitposting". I don't think his joke was shitposting. I have explained why I defined your meltdown as shitposting and per that definition what he did is apparently close - and worthy of scrutiny, but does not IMO actually cross over. Not only is his tone joking, but it is only self-deprecating plus sarcastic at you. You on the other hand dragged others into your "don't give a shit about this anymore" post.

Then his "Brasas, I see what you're up to!" is a separate post. Thanks for owning to your mistake regarding my LOL on that.

Finally, let me rephrase that for your benefit.

By all means keep pushing him, it would be interesting if you didn't lie at all when you flipped the table.
=
By all means keep pushing Greek, it would be interesting if you actually told the truth about him being Hitler when you shitposted.

Get it now? Go on and type your "That again? You really think of nothing else..."


And since I expect you'll ask me about me dodging. Discusssing Greek now is pretty much a huge distraction. Of all players in the game he is the only one that Lift can't choose as chancellor. By all means keep having your fun with him while I don't give a fuck unless you continue to drag me in and shade me by association.

Actually, there is one thing I can do which I think might be valuable.

@Adalia, can you argue with ZFR the value of "stirring the pot" as liberal? I recall you used to get mislynched for it so you can help ZFR get in Greek's shoes.

@Adalia, Ash
By the way, please follow ZFR and mine lead and give Lift what he asked for. Should be amusing to see who you pick as alternative to me.

@ZFR
See, I do think of something else. Eyes on the ball basically.

Yeah... there is no value to stirring the pot. I tried it, I got lynched a lot. I've already responded to greek about his 'clever gambits' etc. and how pointless and useless they are, and how 9 times out of 10 they come from scum.
I point you to the game I linked earlier for my more recent town tactics, which are FAR more effective, though not transferable to this game.

Please see the post above yours. I pick me. Obviously. Neither ash nor ZFR convince me of their liberal ness enough to possibly throw the game on it at this stage. If one of the the Ls come up this round and we have a fascist in government then we lose it. If we've already lost one that means we'll pass another two F policies (not including the one passed by the next government in this scenario) before the reshuffle, putting us at 4 - 5, meaning we get one shot to win or lose while also trying to avoid electing Hitler. I don't fancy those odds.
Hence why I dislike you for the post too, far too great a risk that you are greek's buddy.

And how many games did it take you to learn that? :) And were you scum 9/10 times you tried it? :)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Each of you suggesting themselves is... neat...
Maybe ashwald will go wild tough...

Loosing your cool, mate? You were so pleasant and relaxed only few hours ago. [i]Was[i] greek really your chance and now you're pissed at him for stupidly screwing things.

Anyway, I'll let the "shitposting" posts speak for themselves.
Compare:
In what universe are the above "trolling"? Especially given the last one was an addition to an unrelated discussion. Whom were you trolling then.

with:
How much bad faith do you need to assume to take the above as anything but an exasperated quip? Especially given the context of how I was incessantly attacked just before it.


Everyone, make up your own minds.

@adalia yeah sorry about stirring the pot, and I'm going to stop now. The posts are there for all to see. I just hope accusations of "stirring the pot" don't anyone from seeing the actual content of these last posts.

It is amusing how everyone is simply nominating themselves. Not that I find any fault with it, after all the liberals can only ever truly vouch for one person: themselves.

I'll repeat what I said before: anyone form the pool of people that haven't participated in government before would do for me. Including myself if it comes to that.
And from the pool of eligible fascist/Hitler candidates, among scene/brasas/dedo/zfr again anyone would do - except from scene, he's simply lied too many times for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Better to test someone else.

Will have to sleep on this a bit more, see if I can narrow it down any.

Really? If you are liberal, you should at least see how dangerous a statement in this game is. In a game where we have a Hitler, who doesn't know who the fascists are but has an interest in coordinating with them. Where also the fascists have no night-chat and therefore have to try to coordinate through 'harmless' messages in the open. So someone saying "I know what you are doing, keep on doing it" looks exactly like a fascist telling another one 'I got your plan, go on, I'll play along'. ... I didn't see Brasas as fascist or coupled so strongly to you at the time. That's why I didn't react to it but chose to observe first. But your changing explanation for it from 'I don't know' to 'Ah, now I remember, but it was nothing' to 'All a joke' doesn't really inspire confidence. If you are a liberal, I'm sure you will understand that.

But you are right in one thing: there might be fascists in both camps who only fight for show.

@Brasas: no, I'm not planning a dispute with you, I'm just going through possibilities to gauge the benefits and risks of both paths. If we form a government and I draw an L, I will give it to you and if you are liberal, we will win the game.

Brasas already replied to that, but here you actually have mis-represented his tone. 'WTF' means something completely different from 'LOL' ... check your abbreviations!
Really, sometimes I wonder if you two aren't two liberals who have latched onto each other and pick each other apart. One influenced by RW and one by Greek.

:-)
Actually the suggestion isn't that bad, if I limit the pool beforehand. Not Greek (he isn't even eligible, being term-locked) and not dedo, because if dedo were a good choice, Brasas would be better. That would actually eliminate the danger of being manipulated. However, trusting on pure luck to win the day is a bit boring.

So, we have another vote for Path 2, but again for the voter himself. Of course, one self is the safest choice for everyone. But that doesn't really help the others. I would prefer on trying to find a common candidate.

So far we have ZFR, Brasas, adalia (and Scene, before I even asked) voting for themselves. The Greek voting for randomization. If you are uncomfortable with both factions, we might also try to test one of the lurkers. Yes... I actually just suggested that although I don't like lurkers. The problem is, each player from one of the 'camps' has other players rooting for them and the other camp attacking them. Blotunga, for example, has so far evaded every radar. No one really roots for him, he didn't write anything scummy yet. But this 'flying under the radar' might also be what a fascist does...

One more thing, that bothers me: can RW and Scene be both fascist? Both seem quite off. But Scene passed 2L to RW - he wouldn't have done that if both were fascists. Passing 2L is either a liberal wanting enforce the enactment of an L policy or a fascist, wanting to deny a liberal the chance to prove himself. But definitely not a fascist denying a fellow fascist the chance to prove himself... So, who of these two is the fascist and who was just playing badly for some reason? I'm starting to get paranoid and see fascists everywhere. But there are only 4 (including Hitler) so the majority HAS to be liberal!

And if someone wonders why I want to discuss so much before chosing our path: I want to avoid chosing the wrong chancellor if possible. I want to get this right. If I get it wrong and them am lucky with the draw and pass along 1L which then isn't enacted - sure, we flush out a fascist with that. But still that fascist then got to bury 1L and successive draws will have an increased chance of giving uns Fs. But if I manage to nominate a liberal, I want to have the other liberals behind me, because the fascist will probably vote against an L-L government by now.

You can't have everything. If you want to maximize the chance of picking a liberal, you pick brasas now and call it a day. With path 2 brasas and dedo are out. We can make a guess about the rest but nothing is sure. If you want a 50%-50% chance you can pick kusu or blotunga. That leaves Zfr, Adalia, ashwald and Scene. Obviously I am against people whose only plan is to accuse me and you don't like Scene so I leave these aside. Btw no one will see you rolling the dice;) And don't worry much about picking a fascist, no one will put blame on you and we'll have more opportunities to win the game. And it's your government or chaos so you have 6 guaranteed "yes" and your government will be elected in any case.

@brasas you seem a little impatient lately. Is it really a problem if Lift tries someone else now and you are a chancellor with me president next round?

Paranoia aside I am fine with what you are doing and I see the problem with chancellor choice if we get the 3rd F plus both of us (the investigated ones) being term-locked. Apart from the arguments I already made right at start, I think a broader reading of the game should lower your apprehensions about Scene, and testing him makes as much sense as testing someone fresh. He's the natural alternative to me right now, but I do see that he has been attacked well.

This from Lift "Lynch-All-Liars" Hrasil has just convinced me I need to go back and pound ZFR again... duty is so tiring... you understand I like the guy? This is super shitty.

Do what ZFR did, randomly draw your best buddies on one side, and the top Liberal read on the other side!

In case the dripping sarcasm isn't obvious let me double down on it:

Do what ZFR did, randomly draw the lie you want!

PS: In case anyone has forgotten I am referring to ZFR's explanation for the names in his shitpost. He said he drew them randomly... those digital dice were amazing seers.

IMO only if Scene is Hitler.

Or whoever they investigate of course. Which reminds me of another angle RW was pushing that you might analyze. Do you agree with him we should treat the investigation results as null value because of potential WIFOM?

What a neat twist.

Sorry this game is't helping your odds... And I fixed it for you.

Well, have we played together before? If so it was that Smurfia game and Nacho/Drealmer were the scum there.

But ok, the stuff we are referencing is from my lurking phase. You, Wyrm and sometimes Yogs were always the ones going for the stirring the pot angles. It was worth the shot if you were town back then to drag you into defending Greek against your will.

Didn't work, so greek will have to hang on without your help. Them's the breakz... :)

My point holds and let me make it explicit: Greek has been an overeager puppy all game. So he peed on the carpet a few times. I'm not going Ol'Yeller on him yet.

Just a bit tired. Duty calls and all that jazz is nice, but end of the day a happy warrior wants pussy and gold. And I'm not getting any from this...

Context is what truly buries you mate. The progression of your frustration building under pressure and refusal to be constructive afterwards is legit and puts the lie to your current spins.

Let's shift the order here since next is the big one.

Just to point out you are again misreading, misrepping. By stirring the pot I referred to Greek. You are clearly over-defensive. This type of inconsistency and carelessness is what pinged me about you in the first place. But that's in the context you have conveniently elided.

And without going into detail - yes, there is some difference between stirring the pot - which is my read on Greek's actions - and muddying the waters - which has been my sometimes accusation at you and RW.

Incessantly but accurately is your problem...

Let's be clear what you are saying. No obfuscation. You are saying: I lied because I was pissed off.

The lie involved you randomly drawing 3 names. So by your own admission it was not a ... what's the term... heat of the moment thing. Premeditation is the proper term yes?

So why were you so pissed off that you replied with a premeditated lie?

We again have your own statement that it was because you were under attack. We can leave the subjective language aside and stick to the facts and testimony.

You were under attack and responded with a premeditated lie.

I could rest my case here. But let's consider motive a bit farther.

Why would attacks cause you to lie?
There's only two logical, mutually exclusive possibilities.
Because they were right. Or because they were wrong.

Here of course is where you draw the line. You say they were wrong.

So you were under wrong attacks and responded with a premeditated lie. Congrats, you just delivered the strongest evidence anyone could want that the attacks were right.

Now I rest my case. The attacks were right. You cracked.
Against interest I will admit I think you did not premeditate the lie to the point of random draws. IMO that's post hoc justification.

I think Lift is shooting himself in the foot because of discounting Scene. Like on you I see valid attacks on Scene being made but the overall picture on policies passed and trying to solve the game speaks louder and is being ignored. I am tempted to see Lift as the hidden fascist angling for a sub par play, then I rem (thanks to you) that you investigated him. Although Lit/Greek could be a fash pair, it makes zero sense since there's only 4 Fascist aligned in total.

So as I already told him at the start of this "game day". I think it's time to double down, not to double back.
If testing someone I see no reason to exclude Scene from the pool to consider for testing.

I agree and Scene would be my first choice if I tried someone else now wanting at the same time to maximize my chances to pick a liberal. If we let gut feelings aside, my logic says that Scene's actions show a liberal even though he has been chaotic sometimes and made some mistakes in his posts, I don't think he lied at any point. He isn't a professional lawyer like the Three Stooges so he can't twist stuff and make arguments so well but he analyzes paths to victory and he doesn't spend his time accusing me, that's a plus, too:)

Which I doubt is true. His play wouldn't make any sense then. It does make sense as scum or as inattentive/jumpy liberal. OK. Let's include him in the pool of 'might make sense to test' players, if we decide to go the random route.

But what I don't get is, do you really accuse ZFR of having lied with his statement naming his 'scumbuddies'? That implies that you still take that sentence serious. But for me that sentence has exactly the same quality as Greek's "Yea, I'm Hitler". The fact that you see one of these sentences as a scum sign but not the other should tell you, that you are tunneling quite a lot. In any case you are applying two very different measures to ZFR and Greek.

He isn't saying Zfr was telling the truth in a serious way. He's saying that Zfr picked the specific names not by accident, which is a premedisomething lie. He's saying that if Zfr was pissed off, he would have picked 3 random names. Myself, I completely disregard Zfr's post, I avoid so deep psychology shit.