I am fortunate in that my business has one customer. Essentially, a property owner tapped me to manage his properties for him. So, it is my own business. I am not his employee. And I negotiated what I consider a good deal for me financially.

I don't have employees. I do have one major contractor who does all the cleaning for the B&B. Then there is the general contractor - who mostly works for the property owner and works on brining more property online to be rentable. And then there is day-labor, which I get from the neighborhood.

So, mostly it is me at my desk, and me communicating with guests - both in person and online.

I like it. My hours are flexible, but I do go to work every day. And I'm on call always. and I can take a nap if I need onw, but the last time I did, there was a fire 20- minutes after I turned my phone off.

Luckily, the fire was small, and was put out immediately by the contractor, and someone came and got me right away. So, really best case scenario all around for having a fire.

It's going to be 4 years this March since I quit my office job.

And it wasn't like it was a bad job: the salary was really good, plus all the benefits like medical insurance and whatnot, the boss was very nice and flexible, the commute was good, the work was fairly interesting (data analysis), and I was never too swamped.

One Sunday I just decided to quit and handed my notice on Monday.

I never looked back. And the best part is my work is not tied to any place or working hours. All I need for my job is my laptop. I can travel, take more days off, work day and night if I have to...

All very true...

Dude, that lesson you already gave:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gogfix_the_rep_or_delete_my_account_now/page1

In the UK anyway bankruptcy is fairly easy... you could say that was (part of) my previous job before I started my own business.

Basically you declare yourself bankrupt and any assets or money you do have is divided among your creditors, if you have a house you will lose it. It's been a while but as far as I remember you have to make payments towards it (though not an awful lot and possibly only if you are earning enough) for about 5 - 7 years, and anything else you owe after that is just wiped clear. During that time you will definitely struggle to get any kind of credit, I believe you are also barred from being a director of a company. Afterwards, it's just a bit of a blip on your record and you are considered 'discharged'. You'll still have trouble getting credit but not much more than a regular bad credit record would do.

If you have a limited liability company it's even easier. Limited liability is exactly what it says on the tin, the company is liable and not you. That being said most new LLCs will require you (owners, directors) to accept personal liability for any debts anyway so that's more down the line for most people.

What most people who are dodgy do is make sure houses and assets are in partners' or childrens' names so if (when) they go bankrupt they don't actually lose anything. Similar tactics are used when starting a new company if previously bankrupt, don't name yourself a director, name a family member or a close friend one instead.


As for starting a business... it's easier then you think, though having a good idea or a unique skill of some kind definitely helps.

So can you tell in what area (profession) that is, and what kind of clients do you have? Do you have the same clients all the time or do you need new clients once in a while, and how do you find them?

How do you come up with pricing of your services, was it always clear to you what would be the correct price or do you just negotiate it with clients? (That's the main part that amazes me with running your own business, pricing).

Yeah, your "job" (=business) sounds like a dream, I'd love something like that.

Yeah, doesn't sound so bad. As said, I don't know if it is worse here in Finland, I just always thought that in many cases the losses you make with your own business will haunt you for the rest of your life. Hence, when I am thinking what kind of business I would run, I would have to be fairly sure it is a good business, OR that I could start it without debt or much of investments, just start selling my services or a product or whatever.

My big brother already gave me one idea that he said he had been pondering earlier (certain kind of application that could possibly be even licensed or sold to certain companies), and he proposed I'd look into it more. I've been meaning to do that, first simply check if there are already such applications in the market (in which case I'd probably just say "forget it"), and then familiarize myself a bit with the theory part of it, what would be the best approach to the "dilemma" that the application is supposed to solve. And I guess I should learn more about Android programming too, or hire someone to do it (and then he steals the idea and creates a new facebook). :D

At least that shouldn't need any big investments, I guess that is why the world is already full of mobile and computer app developers with "bright" ideas, no need to take a big bank loan first if you have the right idea.

Yeah, maybe it is also a cultural thing. I live in nanny state where it feels that entrepreneurship is even discouraged somewhat, and most people expect to go to work to some big company or the state, instead of starting their own business. It is not a surprise that all those small pizzerias and food stores here seem to be run by immigrants, not Finnish people.

If I think of the small companies that I see some people start (with not necessarily that much experience), like a pizzeria or a food store selling oriental food stuff... I just keep thinking "how can they make a living with that?!?". I mean, the few times I've visited a very small oriental food store nearby (in order to buy some rice flour) which seems to be run by some old Finnish guy and his thai wife, I am always the only customer. How do they even pay for the rent for that place?

And like that consultation company representing certain software here, when I discussed with one of the owners, he said that he can see only like 3 months ahead if they have any more business (ie. whether their clients will be needing their services, courses etc., whether they will find new clients etc.), which he finds stressing. But at the same time, he said that they have enough work for 7 years already, so...

I'm a programmer. And I'm fortunate to have a great business partner who is good at doing all the client work. I just code (and occasionally show up at the client meeting/call where we need to bring as many people as possible).

I'm envious.

BTW, that business partner doesn't happen to be your former boss or the company where you worked before? That is the classic. :)

If you really genuinely wanting to start a company and not just take the money and run then this is the best way. It is good to know what the options are re:bankruptcy but it's better to not borrow anything or only borrow as much as you definitely need and can repay even if everything goes south.

Entrepreneurs aren't particularly supported or encouraged here either...

To be honest a lot of them go bust. We've seen lots of fellow food businesses struggling and we've seen more come and go (not people that we know usually, just local restaurants or Takeaways) and mostly it's down to people underestimating the work involved and the skills required.

But when you do it right you'd be surprised what you can make, even when fairly quiet. There's a decent margin on food. And it also depends on what you consider a decent wage, are you happy with £10k a year? Or do you want / need to make £40k?

Yeah that's a good point. At least for me it would simply be my own boss with something that I feel would provide me (and my family) a comfortable living, not expecting it to make me rich or anything.

So yeah, if I could run e.g. a small food store which I felt keeps my head above water (I could pay all my running bills etc.), that would probably be enough. Then I could stop worrying about changing jobs and whether I am still good enough (or young enough) for the positions I am looking for etc., and make the decisions myself how hard I want to work. It would also be very "stimulating" if it affected my pay check directly how hard I work, it would stimulate me more to try my best than work where you don't as easily get any direct benefits for working harder than others (other than maybe not being the first one to be laid off, maybe).

Exactly. As long as you pay your bills and are happy and secure what more can you ask for?

If you've got a good head for business and figures you can work it all out yourself how much you'd need and how much you could possibly make, if not it's definitely worth speaking to someone; advisor or accountant or something similar.

But if you're seriously considering it at all my advice would always be to go for it. As long as you've done your homework and have a reasonable expectation of what you can make it is definitely worth it.

No. He's from college. We met at a game jam event. He's good at both the client stuff and the technical stuff. Which means he can both acquire clients and code too (and when he talks with clients he can give them good estimates of what we can and can't do and how fast. It's not like "Here ZFR, I promised our clients a Half-Life 3 sequel. We have a week to deliver it.").

For timppu, giving a few thoughts on stuff you were asking:

- US bankruptcy. From what I've experienced, the vendors are the ones who ultimately take the beating. My business has been a vendor to four companies that folded (with open invoices), and the wife and I personally invested in another (family thing; that's a whole other discussion). In all those cases, we haven't seen a dime. And won't see a dime. The business losses were small; I think the largest was around $300 or so. The personal investment, not so small. Anyway...

- more on bankruptcy. The odds of going bankrupt are much less if you don't have outstanding business debt. A business can still fold, mind you, but hopefully it will do so in an orderly fashion owing nothing. If you choose a business that has a high overhead and requires heavy borrowing just to get it started, then I think that's a big disadvantage and puts it at much greater risk right from the start.

- pricing. I'm not the best person to answer since I'm in a tight niche, but it helps to start with some idea of how much you must make (including income tax and benefits) - on the personal side, not the business - in order to get by. That's your baseline. Then add in semi-fixed biz expenses: rent on the biz space, insurance, property taxes, professional fees such as consulting with an accountant or lawyer, utilities for the workspace; whatever stuff you have to pay regardless of how well things are going. Then you do some math to figure in volume of sales, variable expenses (mileage and delivery fees, for instance), wholesale cost of the stuff you want to sell. From there, you try to work up a competitive margin. This is somewhat easier if you're just doing a service business, since you don't have to worry about the wholesale costs.

- starting a small business over here. Gov't helps, and it hinders. TONS of info available online. Almost too much, since it can be tough to sort through all of it to make sure the info applies to your case. Depending on what you do, they can be either all over you or leave you completely alone. In my case, they're hands-off so long as my taxes are correct. In my case, I can't really complain about gov't getting in the way. They haven't messed with me on zoning, there are no inspections or licensing, no crazy insurance requirements, and even the property tax stuff hasn't been bad since my overhead is low.

Other thoughts:

- guessing there are a bunch of gov't websites you can go to, to give you an idea of the paperwork, fees, licenses, taxes, etc., for whatever it is you're selling. Make sure you know those upfront - the research is generally free. You can fix customer problems without much difficulty. Fixing problems with gov't can be a struggle so do what you can to avoid them in the first place.

- insurance. Absolutely look into this. If you think you're starting a place that might have customer traffic then you really need to be on top of your insurance - and safety! - game, both product and premises.

- accountant. Depending on how complicated the business is, and ditto the tax requirements, an accountant can really save your bacon. Find one that does small biz consultations. And I would suggest an accountant and not just a bookkeeper. If you just want a bookkeeper then get software instead. Further, if something gets messed up on the tax side of things, the accountant will be more helpful.

- relationships. I'm not one to shop around for product and service vendors: once I find those I like, I stick with them. If you pay them on time and give them regular business, they'll be more likely to go out of their way for you when you need something extra. If a vendor underperforms, then certainly find someone else. But I wouldn't necessarily go price shopping if the vendor is otherwise great to work with and their pricing still fits in your budget.

Good luck if you decide to take on the challenge. You'll lose some hair in frustration for a while, but if you get a system in place then it can go fairly smoothly. Downside is that any fuck-ups are yours. ; )

Three thousand and five stars,then of course you can prove it.You can,can't you? yuk yuk yuk,now who is the fool?Well dude?
Just a little footnote:EGO:They just love it when everyone think's they are knight's in shinny armour and the sun shines out of their (you know what).
ATTENTION SEEKER:Someone that loves to post in here all day and collect little stars and tries to be funny and entertaining but really a massive failing in real life.Thanks for the laughs.