It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionRoyality, capitalism and general socioeconomic systems in media including games.(88 posts) (88 posts) 
(88 posts) 
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
This is my favourite topic
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
myconv: [...]
avatar
amok: what does a realistic orc look like?
I was saying none of it is "realistic"
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
dtgreene: So, do you have any examples of representative goverments in Europe (not the Ottoman Empire, and not on other continents) from the fall of Rome to before the Renaissance? (In particular, it has to come before that one country declared independence in 1776.)
avatar
Sachys: Various tribal cultures, Venice, Amalfi, various Italian city states, various Irish "Kindgoms", various Nordic "Kingdoms", post romanic celtic england, pictish culture, various "viking" cultures. Various nomadic tribes that would eventually settle eastern europe.
list goes on.

edit: feudalism did indeed become a more predominant form of governing, but partly due to it being FEUDAL. clues in the name.
also to mention, the famouse viking Iceland Thingvellir, which started around year 900. Iceland was a form of a democratic parlimant, a "free state",
avatar
amok: what does a realistic orc look like?
avatar
myconv: I was saying none of it is "realistic"
and that was what I was talking about.
Post edited December 14, 2023 by amok
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
amok: also to mention, the famouse viking Iceland Thingvellir, which started around year 900. Iceland was a form of a democratic parlimant, a "free state",
covered that in "viking cultures". could not be arsed naming each and every one tbh.
avatar
Sachys: NVM - just gonna derail things.
avatar
amok: but...but... thats the fun parts... spoilsport
yeah but the gimp already awoke a few days back. dont want their latex sweat stench clogging the air while they steer everything into utter fuggwit whataboutery.
Post edited December 14, 2023 by Sachys
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
amok: also to mention, the famouse viking Iceland Thingvellir, which started around year 900. Iceland was a form of a democratic parlimant, a "free state",
avatar
Sachys: covered that in "viking cultures". could not be arsed naming each and every one tbh.
[snip]
ayr, buy you are also right in that the other viking societies were kingdoms and fifedoms. only Iceland had something close to a democracy
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
myconv: I was saying none of it is "realistic"
avatar
amok: and that was what I was talking about.
You ask me what part of something that I say is unrealistic, is realistic? Huh?
avatar
amok: what does a realistic orc look like?
Nothing, since orcs are not realistic because orcs aren't real.
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
Sachys: covered that in "viking cultures". could not be arsed naming each and every one tbh.
[snip]
avatar
amok: ayr, buy you are also right in that the other viking societies were kingdoms and fifedoms. only Iceland had something close to a democracy
not true and not what i said.
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
amok: and that was what I was talking about.
avatar
myconv: You ask me what part of something that I say is unrealistic, is realistic? Huh?
avatar
amok: what does a realistic orc look like?
avatar
myconv: Nothing, since orcs are not realistic because orcs aren't real.
and neither would i expect an orc society to be real

in any case, you where putting words in my mouth, as what i was doing was not engaging with your topic (which I think is a bit silly), but to dtgreene who thought a fanatasy setting needed to involve magic
Posted December 14, 2023
If the tropes of monarchy = good are so dangerous, so corruptive, then why haven't I been brainwashed into adoring the British royal family, I wonder? I consume this stuff too. Surely all this dangerous media would have had me supporting the monarchy...

Oh, that's right: I understand that works of fiction and what happens in reality are in fact two different things.
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
Braggadar: If the tropes of monarchy = good are so dangerous, so corruptive, then why haven't I been brainwashed into adoring the British royal family, I wonder? I consume this stuff too. Surely all this dangerous media would have had me supporting the monarchy...

Oh, that's right: I understand that works of fiction and what happens in reality are in fact two different things.
It's not so cut and dry as that. Like real British people do adore their monarchy despite it being but a parasitic existence sucking up wealth from the people. Tourism, renting castles for weddings, etc. You really think the numerous stories romanticizing royalty has nothing to do with that? But even if you aren't adoring British monarchy, it can numb people to elites ruling them. Capitalism and feudalism are not so far apart. Both say some people are better than others and should rule, just that capitalism claims it can sort out the worthy from the unworthy in its false "meritocracy". But it also claims some people are born better than others.

People reading about glorified serial killers don't necessarily become killers themselves. But there are people who think greatly of serial killers and serial killers who probably in part became killers for that glory. It is proven that at least some mass killers do so to become immortalized in the press. This is a real phenomenon.

But again, this is all in degrees, not all or nothing. I just want people to become more aware of this trend in stories so it doesn't cause them to say something like this-

avatar
darktjm: it's hard to suspend disbelief when you create a society that contradicts all of history and human nature,
It is not hard to believe that at least some of Darkjm's pessimistic view on the allegedly unchangable "human nature" could come from a steady diet of stories that tell us most people suck and we need kings, heroes, or self made rich capitalists to save us.

Hello Ironman and Batman. In fact some effort has been made to make Elon Musk like a real life Ironman, some genius who is going to remake the world for the better. This narrative helps Elon avoid some scrutiny for stupid greedy selfish shit even using tax payer money, that Elon has done. Elon has RL stans even.

Similar with Donald Trump. Elected in part for the mythos of being a rich and self made. This shit has RL consequences.

Furthermore it's also the absence of alternatives to feudalism or capitalism in most stories that can help convince people that working alternatives don't exist and can't exist.
Post edited December 14, 2023 by myconv
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
myconv: ...

Furthermore it's also the absence of alternatives to feudalism or capitalism in most stories that can help convince people that working alternatives don't exist and can't exist.
Most writers can't find or won't research the alternatives because it involves a lot of imaginative creativity and the risk of not being a popular concept. Their editors/ publishing companies might also prohibit them from pursuing this kind of concept due to such concerns.

What's the Tolkien trope? He invented a language and then built a world around it? Without that kind of dedication and the favourable environment to push forward its development, any deviation from the norm has little opportunity to compete.
Posted December 14, 2023
avatar
myconv: ...

Furthermore it's also the absence of alternatives to feudalism or capitalism in most stories that can help convince people that working alternatives don't exist and can't exist.
avatar
honglath: Most writers can't find or won't research the alternatives because it involves a lot of imaginative creativity and the risk of not being a popular concept. Their editors/ publishing companies might also prohibit them from pursuing this kind of concept due to such concerns.

What's the Tolkien trope? He invented a language and then built a world around it? Without that kind of dedication and the favourable environment to push forward its development, any deviation from the norm has little opportunity to compete.
You are right, that is some of the causes. Though I wouldn't go as far as to say that a writer needs to be as prolific as Tokien in their world building just to compete.

That doesn't stop the writers among you from considering such factors in your next work or readers and gamers from considering such things as they digest their media diet.
Posted December 14, 2023
https://i.imgur.com/WhiaclF.jpg
Posted December 15, 2023
Again, if you set your game in medieval Europe (but with magic and other extras), expect medieval Europe. Don't just change things that you find undesirable, without good reason. If your reason is politics, I'd prefer not to hear it. I don't play games to find out your political views, and if you make them too obvious, I might dislike your game just for the politics. Even if I agree with your political statement, you will probably neglect some other important aspect, making me feel like you now support that. There are actually a lot of things I find distasteful about a medieval European setting, and royalty and nobility don't top the list.

Also, stop putting your words into my mouth. All intelligent creatures have the means to control their lives, so they naturally do so. Some want to control others (unless they are a hive mind). Some will succeed at that. Having rulers is natural. Having those rulers portray themselves as good and necessarily via force and propaganda is natural. This does not mean that people "need" or even want rulers, but they do have to live with them. The best they can hope for is that their rulers don't screw them over too much.
Posted December 15, 2023
avatar
darktjm: Some want to control others (unless they are a hive mind).
I wouldn't necessarily be sure about that "hive mind" exception.

(Someone should make a work of some sort that explores this situation.)
Posted December 15, 2023
avatar
darktjm: Some want to control others (unless they are a hive mind).
avatar
dtgreene: I wouldn't necessarily be sure about that "hive mind" exception.

(Someone should make a work of some sort that explores this situation.)
something like "More than human" by Sturgeon?

edit - got he wrong title :) "baby is three" was the title of the novella that was released in magazin format, the book that came later was called "More than human". In the book "Baby is three" is the second part out of three
Post edited December 15, 2023 by amok
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionRoyality, capitalism and general socioeconomic systems in media including games.(88 posts) (88 posts) 
(88 posts)