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Gilozard: So many games here are old and niche, they'd have no reviews if that was true.

You know what's a top turnoff for online products? No reviews.

Steam can only get away with insisting people have to have bought the Steam version because they're the vast majority of the PC gaming market.
The steam system doesn't really work either. The first review I read for SoD was a negative review citing the SJW and political agenda being forced down their throat. I checked the users profile - they'd played 9 minutes. There was absolutely no way they had managed to come across any objectionable content in the first 9 minutes.
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Shadowstalker16: Not without buying the game.
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feda6: You can literally review any game on GoG without buying it. It is my opinion that this should be changed to prevent review-bombing. Steam's system is much more reasonable in that regard. Don't own the game on the platform? Then you shouldn't have the right to review it on said platform. Go to Metacritic or wherever you bought the game from.
Yes, I just found out about this. I agree it should be removed since it has so much potential for abuse, especially from competitors / fanboys. I still think ''review bombing'' is abstract in terms of review content, but allowing anyone to make any statement in a system where the maintenance staff cannot on reasonable terms be contacted for removal is bad. I recall how some author was declared to be a neo-nazi on an amazon page for his book, which is a 100% factually inaccurate statement that can cause harm.


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feda6: You can literally review any game on GoG without buying it. It is my opinion that this should be changed to prevent review-bombing. Steam's system is much more reasonable in that regard. Don't own the game on the platform? Then you shouldn't have the right to review it on said platform. Go to Metacritic or wherever you bought the game from.
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Gilozard: So many games here are old and niche, they'd have no reviews if that was true.

You know what's a top turnoff for online products? No reviews.

Steam can only get away with insisting people have to have bought the Steam version because they're the vast majority of the PC gaming market.
This is interesting too. Almost all other online commerce sites have a non-verified purchaser review option. I didn't contemplate that it will influence product credibility, but remember my own behavior of disregarding products without customers on sites like amazon.

I still think GOG should either do owner only reviews or alternatively allow the dev to choose reviews from unverified customers with flags pointing them out.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
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feda6: You can literally review any game on GoG without buying it. It is my opinion that this should be changed to prevent review-bombing. Steam's system is much more reasonable in that regard. Don't own the game on the platform? Then you shouldn't have the right to review it on said platform. Go to Metacritic or wherever you bought the game from.
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Shadowstalker16: Yes, I just found out about this. I agree it should be removed since it has so much potential for abuse, especially from competitors / fanboys. I still think ''review bombing'' is abstract in terms of review content, but allowing anyone to make any statement in a system where the maintenance staff cannot on reasonable terms be contacted for removal is bad. I recall how some author was declared to be a neo-nazi on an amazon page for his book, which is a 100% factually inaccurate statement that can cause harm.

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Gilozard: So many games here are old and niche, they'd have no reviews if that was true.

You know what's a top turnoff for online products? No reviews.

Steam can only get away with insisting people have to have bought the Steam version because they're the vast majority of the PC gaming market.
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Shadowstalker16: This is interesting too. Almost all other online commerce sites have a non-verified purchaser review option. I didn't contemplate that it will influence product credibility, but remember my own behavior of disregarding products without customers on sites like amazon.

I still think GOG should either do owner only reviews or alternatively allow the dev to choose reviews from unverified customers with flags pointing them out.
I'm trying to remember where I saw it, but I think the data pretty clearly indicates that no-review products fare the worst of all in online shopping. So the most important thing is to get reviews.

Steam and Google Play are the only stores I know of which don't allow reviews from unconfirmed purchasers, and that only works because both of those stores are >90% of their platform. GOG is not in that position.
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Gilozard: snip
Interesting thoughts Gilozard. I don't agree with much, and I can't say I'm very surprised...

Some people have always been willing to talk about cronyism - no matter who does it. Others have always made those critiques very partial - conditional on involvement of the big game publishers and larger commercial agendas, but turning a blind eye to cronyism nearer indies / narrative driven games, and specific ideological agendas.

Nothing surprising - indie cred and mission journalism both overlap significantly with "stick it to the man" and anti-capitalist activism. That anyone would feel defensive about acknowledging that is to me ridiculous given all the talk of sincerety as the ethical standard to replace objectivity. But I digress...

I don't particularly remember nerd rage being the reason for the mass deletion of threads before GG even had that name. I'm sure it was there from the start to some degree, but it was fueled by not even allowing anyone to discuss the taboo topics. Rage certainly didn't cause anyone to sleep with anyone else you know?

Now, distrust was in there for sure, with lots of confirmation bias on both sides. But the reflexive dismissal that distrust had any validity - in the typical "nothing to see here" coverup model - only served to fuel the paranoia of those so inclined. Me I saw it as just another sign of the ethical immaturity of most of those in positions of relative power in gaming media, but maybe you will call it just sloppy moderation.

As an aside, GOG is exceptional (for good and bad) in that it was one of the very few places where outright deletion and dismissal was not reflexively performed, and if you look at the relevant threads objectively you will see the rage, insults and abuse was not exclusive to one side of the discussion - far from it. At least you do acknowledge both sides are trollish - not a big step from there to realize also abusive. Thanks for that step.

Finally, as for the distinction between sloppiness and lack of ethics, you might have to elaborate. I see both as mostly unintentional lacks of professionalism in this context (though really I will not put my hands on the fire for anyone else's motives, this shit is too polarized now) - still in theory neither is equivalent to existence of antethical motives. And they can certainly overlap rather than be wholly distinct.

I think the more relevant point is that this is again your othering distrust. If you see / saw a criticism about lack of ethics as an implicit accusation of malice - that is another example of how from the beginning there was a certain oversensitive defensiveness contributing to the overreaction and demonization. One could almost say that was RAAAGE (of the How dare you question/refuse me! privilege variety) and extremely unhelpful. Whether anyone enraged identifies as nerd, gamer, or whatever - it hardly matters IMO.

But of course, the labels matter to many. Ultimately this does go back to the rejection of objectivity all around - not unique to journalism. If you reject judging others on the basis of their observable factual behavior, you are only left with their identifying labels. The group abides, the individual is subsumed. Guilt by association becoming the norm. To me, that's kind of counterproductive if the goal is to look at individuals as diverse units of human value. One could almost say the rejection of objectivity is antethical with acknowleging the value of diversity - if one looks at the consequences rather than the intent that is.

Tragic. The constant pursuit of freedom via libertinism and lack of challenges or boundaries to one's will rather than freedom as libertarian agency limited by respect for others as equals.
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Narakir: I'm more concerned about the lack of consistency in writing style than these "issues", but maybe its good to remind people its a Bioware game. If they had redone their game and added an expansion today, the level of baboon butt hurt against SJWness would have been even greater.
i don't get what you're implying? i can point out at least 3 bioware games/expansions that "feminists" would ABSOLUTELY HATE.
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feda6: You can literally review any game on GoG without buying it. It is my opinion that this should be changed to prevent review-bombing. Steam's system is much more reasonable in that regard. Don't own the game on the platform? Then you shouldn't have the right to review it on said platform. Go to Metacritic or wherever you bought the game from.
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Gilozard: So many games here are old and niche, they'd have no reviews if that was true.

You know what's a top turnoff for online products? No reviews.

Steam can only get away with insisting people have to have bought the Steam version because they're the vast majority of the PC gaming market.
GOG could improve the situation by limiting who can review brand new games. I went over some possibilities a few posts back.

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/review_brigading_on_gog/post63

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feda6: By checking what's in your account like Steam does.
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JMich: So what happens in case of a Kickstarter game that I have on Humble instead of GOG due to how the publisher issued keys? Same game, but I don't own it on GOG.
How about a game I bought the retail version of and not the GOG one, like The Witcher 2 on release?
What about Carmageddon Max Pack, that has the exact same files both on GOG and Steam, thus Steam's version is the GOG version?

There are multiple ways one could have a game GOG sells yet still not own it on GOG. You say that none of those opinions matter, because it's not the GOG version, even though GOG's versions have been sold on other stores as well(the infinity games for example or the tomb raiders on steam).

Yes, there should be a check of whether the reviewer owns the game on GOG or not, but it shouldn't prevent people from posting a review. Just tag the reviews as "Owns product on GOG" or not as needed.

P.S. And I have played the GOG version of games that I do not own on GOG (not illegally, weird as it may sound), so should I be able to review said product or not?
The question is, why does GOG carry reviews at all? I see two main reasons. To help drive sales, and to provide a service that encourages customer trust in the website. GOG's review system hasn't ever been perfect, but it's usually helpful enough to justify using it. If non-customers can torpedo impressions of an early game without any proof they've ever played it, it doesn't help the sales angle at all, and it turns customers off of the review system in general.

There's no particular reason for GOG to give review space to every single account who claims to own something. If a new game comes out and you paid for it on Steam, review it on Steam. Someone else will do a good enough job here and get voted up for it. Older games are less likely to get targeted by agendas, and reviews from past owners are far more valuable in those cases, so GOG should continue to keep those open to everyone. But GOG should still indicate if the reviewer bought and downloaded a GOG copy so that the reader can tell if the reviewer is aware of any changes or bugs in the GOG release.
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Narakir: I'm more concerned about the lack of consistency in writing style than these "issues", but maybe its good to remind people its a Bioware game. If they had redone their game and added an expansion today, the level of baboon butt hurt against SJWness would have been even greater.
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dick1982: i don't get what you're implying? i can point out at least 3 bioware games/expansions that "feminists" would ABSOLUTELY HATE.
I said "against SJWness", not regarding social issues.
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feda6: Question: why does GoG let you review games you don't own?
I have a copy of NWN platinum on DVD here physically in front of me. Are my thoughts completely irrelevant if I haven't bought the game on GoG? And if that's the case if I buy the game and never played the GoG version, does it make a difference since I'm still reviewing the original game?

Ownership of a digital copy ultimately isn't a good representation of knowing what you're talking about. Someone recalling purely on nostalgia will probably be apparent. Still I'd be hesitant to replay the Gold box for D&D archived games just to review based on my already present views from playing it 10 years ago.
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wvpr: GOG should indicate automatically whether the reviewer has GOG's version and allow customers to filter reviews based on ownership.
I thought I'd stay out of this thread - because most of what's here isn't an issue for me.

But, GOG has no business leaking ANY account information to strangers - even if under the guise of "indicating[sic] automatically whether the reviewer has GOG's version", and even if "just" whether a particular account holds a particular game on it or not.

If a particular account holder WANTS to share that info - fine - but no way should GOG just do it automatically.

JMO
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javier0889: Minsc says something like "it's about ethics in adventuring".
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timppu: That's all? Then I feel this is being exaggerated.
Hahaha that is hilarious, I mean the people who got their panties in a bunch now are usually the ones who accuse the other side of getting angry at minor things!
gotta love videogamers, probably the dumbest subculture after football fans.
low rated
Judging by my posts being low rated, it appears we have a bunch of self-identified losers on the boards, eh?
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dick1982: i don't get what you're implying? i can point out at least 3 bioware games/expansions that "feminists" would ABSOLUTELY HATE.
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Narakir: I said "against SJWness", not regarding social issues.
do explain your definitions. 'cause AFAIK most gamers do consider such "feminists" (as in those who get offended over any female stereotypes or overly manly male characters) as "SJWs". and the SJWs do consider "problematic" videogames as social issues.
Post edited April 07, 2016 by dick1982
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wvpr: GOG should indicate automatically whether the reviewer has GOG's version and allow customers to filter reviews based on ownership.
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Martek: I thought I'd stay out of this thread - because most of what's here isn't an issue for me.

But, GOG has no business leaking ANY account information to strangers - even if under the guise of "indicating[sic] automatically whether the reviewer has GOG's version", and even if "just" whether a particular account holds a particular game on it or not.

If a particular account holder WANTS to share that info - fine - but no way should GOG just do it automatically.

JMO
We're only talking about reviews here, not showing someone's information in other contexts. The goal is to have a system that excludes random or organized drive-by reviews that have no investment in the game. If the only way to post a review is to have the game in your GOG account, it doesn't matter how GOG marks your review, because your review itself will be proof you have the game.

They could give you a confirmation box saying "By submitting this review, you are acknowledging in public that you have this game in your GOG account." Then you wouldn't accidentally be posting that information.

But consider something else. Remember we're only talking about reviews here, not your profile. If you post a review of a game, aren't you very strongly implying that you have played it? If you don't indicate you're reviewing based on a different release, aren't you strongly implying you have the game in your account? The only reason to be posting a review at all is because you genuinely played through enough of the game to share your opinion on it. How does confirming you have the game you're reviewing cause additional harm beyond what you already reveal by posting an informed public review of that game?
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Gilozard: All GG brought to the table was NERRD RAAAGGEE and that was supremely unhelpful.
Just saw this. Please read this : https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2nz204/important_ftc_update_4_ftc_confirms_that_yes
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Martek: I thought I'd stay out of this thread - because most of what's here isn't an issue for me.

But, GOG has no business leaking ANY account information to strangers - even if under the guise of "indicating[sic] automatically whether the reviewer has GOG's version", and even if "just" whether a particular account holds a particular game on it or not.

If a particular account holder WANTS to share that info - fine - but no way should GOG just do it automatically.

JMO
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wvpr: We're only talking about reviews here, not showing someone's information in other contexts. The goal is to have a system that excludes random or organized drive-by reviews that have no investment in the game. If the only way to post a review is to have the game in your GOG account, it doesn't matter how GOG marks your review, because your review itself will be proof you have the game.

They could give you a confirmation box saying "By submitting this review, you are acknowledging in public that you have this game in your GOG account." Then you wouldn't accidentally be posting that information.

But consider something else. Remember we're only talking about reviews here, not your profile. If you post a review of a game, aren't you very strongly implying that you have played it? If you don't indicate you're reviewing based on a different release, aren't you strongly implying you have the game in your account? The only reason to be posting a review at all is because you genuinely played through enough of the game to share your opinion on it. How does confirming you have the game you're reviewing cause additional harm beyond what you already reveal by posting an informed public review of that game?
It's fine if GOG decides to "require" you to "own it on GOG to post a review" - for future reviews (obviously, as long as it's noted someplace prominently - such as that confirmation box) - then you know going in that that knowledge will be shared. But it should not retroactively mark that info for past reviews posted before such a "requirement" was in place.

Regarding the "harm" factor - one other reason (beyond "what you already reveal by posting an informed public review of that game") is been evident in this very thread - so-called SJW issues.

SJW issues tend to bring out fervent attacks between forum members (and, extrapolating - nearly everywhere on the internet). All it takes is some "social justice" issue to become a focal-point, and you can have people begin "bullying" others that don't "conform" to how they see the issue. That happens every day, all over the net - it's a pervading infestation that seems to be spreading.

Enabling those SJW's that like to "attack" others for having different stances on some SJ issue by providing "proof" that they own a possibly "controversial" title on GOG, from which they can launch a "verbal" assault on a person is just a bad idea - a really bad idea.

It's possible that some person would not have even posted a particular review if they knew that in the future it would be tagged that they do indeed "own" it on GOG or not. It may not make any difference to you, but i might to someone else - and so should not be involuntarily retroactive.


Another reason is it could help "account thieves" select targets for their account thievery.

It's always good practice to not leak information "automatically" in the future that was not leaked in the past. Always do it with "consent".