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General discussionrescue teh princess!(71 posts)(71 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 30, 2018
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HereForTheBeer: Male gamers get to save the princess, while women get to watch the typical male on TV sitcoms portrayed as - at best - a bumbling idiot.

So how about you don't mess with our occasional rescue-the-wimmins gaming plots and we don't gripe about your "These men are so much dumber than us!" tropes on TV?
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Fairfox: how' boot we dont complain 'boot entire plotlines o' gamies, liek weak fragile women, becaaause thar is occasional 30 second advert on tv taht has man bein' typical lee goofy? kkz...

talk 'boot triggered...
Sitcoms, my dear, not 30-second spots. Though there is a fair share of them, as well.

Point is, we don't mind the doofishness that is a typical portrayal of men on TV, so why are some women in a minor tizz about the horrors of being rescued in a handful of games?

Edit: the other point is that we're NOT triggered by the portrayal of men as doofuses. Doofi? Whatever the plural happens to be.
Post edited August 30, 2018 by HereForTheBeer
Posted August 30, 2018
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timppu: How is it misogynist to save the princess?
Well, according to people who-can-not-be-named-for-their-acronim-is-an-offence, misoginyst is not the act of saving but the whole premise that princess needs saving. Because the implication that woman can't do something without a man is derogatory.
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Enebias: This topic is becoming a little trite, if you want my opinion.
How this topic can become something which it was from teh very start?
Post edited August 30, 2018 by LootHunter
Posted August 30, 2018
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dtgreene: The princess has kidnapped the dragon! Please, hero, slay the princess and rescue the dragon!
Well, not exactly a dragon, but

http://nausicaa.wikia.com/wiki/Kushana
Posted August 30, 2018
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dtgreene: The princess has kidnapped the dragon! Please, hero, slay the princess and rescue the dragon!
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LootHunter: Well, not exactly a dragon, but

http://nausicaa.wikia.com/wiki/Kushana
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LootHunter:
That wiki's color scheme makes it hard to read.
Posted August 30, 2018
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dtgreene: That wiki's color scheme makes it hard to read.
Haven't you watched "Nausicaa from the Valley of Wind"?
Posted August 30, 2018
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Fairfox: back in teh 80s an' early 90s (?) i kno storylinez, plotlinez etcetc had 2 b uuuuh radical lee minimalistic then, due 2 simpler tiemz re: codin'. i also! kno japan held teh leash an' their storylines were either radical lee retarded or, probs moar fair lee, westernized retarded, buuut naodayz with aaa budget, development an' budget $$$ into stories an' teh liek, is thar ne xcuse 4 this kind o' crap?
There are enough developers banking on nostalgia that it makes a certain amount of sense to use that setup today given its use in early games. Beyond which, the concept of accomplishing some great feat for the sake of someone else is hardly unique to games. Taken was a movie about saving a daughter, John Wick was about avenging a dog, etcetera. Those kinds of stories tend to resonate with people because the urge to protect something or someone is nearly universal, and they double as a handy permission slip to devolve into a caveman who rips off limbs without sacrificing one's underlying humanity. Very handy.

Obviously it can be used in an obnoxious way, and other story setups can be much more refreshing, but I don't think it's inherently better or worse. Gaming is also big enough right now that you could conceivably avoid this particular trope entirely. It might mean missing out on some of the more risk-averse AAA titles that are aiming to cast as large a net as possible, but I honestly can't remember the last princess I saved, and I don't even go out of my way to avoid it.

Still, I can appreciate that it's one of those things that gets under your skin. Personally, I want to set the world on fire whenever a game plot magically resolves all of its conflict with the power of friendship. So lazy. To a certain extent, though, hating something makes it easy to imagine that thing being more prevalent than it actually is because each encounter becomes a nails-on-a-chalkboard experience.
Posted August 30, 2018
low rated
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dtgreene: That wiki's color scheme makes it hard to read.
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LootHunter: Haven't you watched "Nausicaa from the Valley of Wind"?
As a rule, the answer to "have I watched X" is almost certainly no.

(A few movies might be exceptions, as might video game videos (including speedruns), but if it's a TV show, the answer is definitely "no".)

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227: Still, I can appreciate that it's one of those things that gets under your skin. Personally, I want to set the world on fire whenever a game plot magically resolves all of its conflict with the power of friendship. So lazy. To a certain extent, though, hating something makes it easy to imagine that thing being more prevalent than it actually is because each encounter becomes a nails-on-a-chalkboard experience.
I would rather have it be friendship than (straight) love; straight romance is *really* overdone in pretty much all types of art and literature.
Post edited August 30, 2018 by dtgreene
Posted August 30, 2018
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dtgreene: I would rather have it be friendship than (straight) love; straight romance is *really* overdone in pretty much all types of art and literature.
Good point. Why would almost all romantic interaction represent 99% of the world's population? Wait... That question kind of answers itself. Everyone should be represented. That doesn't mean everyone is represented equally, because they simply don't have equal presence. It's akin to saying there is a severe lack of physically disabled protagonists in media in general. Which there is. The disparity of disabled protagonists correlates to the ratio of disabled people to able bodied people in the general consumer market. Media won't attempt to appeal to anyone on a large scale unless there is a marketable reason to.
Posted August 30, 2018
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LootHunter: Haven't you watched "Nausicaa from the Valley of Wind"?
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dtgreene: As a rule, the answer to "have I watched X" is almost certainly no.

(A few movies might be exceptions, as might video game videos (including speedruns), but if it's a TV show, the answer is definitely "no".)
Well, "Nausicaa" is a movie. Anime feature flilm, to be exact. It is based on a manga (japaneese comics) and while those two a quite different, Kushana's plot to steal God Warrior and make him her weapon is the same in both. Well, except in anime God Warrior dies and in manga he lives and is raised (since his intellect is on a childs level) by Nausicaa.

I'm sorry, but it's just so facepalming for me to see people like you, who complain that there is not enough bad ass female characters, to not being aware of such well-known works ("Nausicaa from the Valley of Wind" was the first creation of Hayao Miaydzaki) that features princesses as protagonist and antagonist.
Post edited August 30, 2018 by LootHunter
Posted August 30, 2018
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Fairfox: hav teh majoritea of gamies broken free from teh borin, sexist, misogynistic cliché of pastimez? 4 teh main?

back in teh 80s an' early 90s (?) i kno storylinez, plotlinez etcetc had 2 b uuuuh radical lee minimalistic then, due 2 simpler tiemz re: codin'. i also! kno japan held teh leash an' their storylines were either radical lee retarded or, probs moar fair lee, westernized retarded, buuut naodayz with aaa budget, development an' budget $$$ into stories an' teh liek, is thar ne xcuse 4 this kind o' crap? even with teh influx o' indie... mebbe espesh. with this influx an' teh talent-pool taht it brings, can we evah go back 2 those horribul sexist dayz? i kno 4 many it was simpler tiem, buuut does tht fo' realz xcuse it?
You don't need budget and coding for good storylines. And they were potentially as good in the 80s as they can be now.
The Bard's Tale
Mega Man
Metroid
The Prisoner
Space Quest
Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego
Wasteland
Wishbringer
Trinity
A Mind Forever Wandering
etc etc etc

I've always just seen "Rescue the Princess" plotlines as simply creative laziness. You can't think of a good idea for the plot of your game? Just make the hero rescue a princess. And that's been around from the beginnings of the industry till now. Honestly, its probably better to not have a plot at that point- People shouldn't half-ass things.
Posted August 30, 2018
Butt y u xpekt gaem daevleppors two maek unly stuff u paersonalee appprove off? Dun't thaey has teh freedom two maek thaeir gaem hou thaey wunt?
Posted August 30, 2018
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LootHunter: Well, according to people who-can-not-be-named-for-their-acronim-is-an-offence, misoginyst is not the act of saving but the whole premise that princess needs saving. Because the implication that woman can't do something without a man is derogatory.
I guess it is "derogatory" in the same sense as how men's only role in romantic comedies (aimed at women) or TV hospital series is to adore the female protagonist, and try to get her attention. Usually there are several men who are "competing" for the attention on that one woman, and all she has to do is to choose. "Oh no do I take Mr Big, or the international billionaire who wants to marry me? What to do, what to do, why can't I have both?"

It implies that the only reason for the existence for men is to get one woman's attention, and they don't have anything else in their lives, like video games.

Anyways, about the implication that "women can survive without men!"... Some time ago there was in the news the incident in Paris where a man (apparently some hardened street thug) whistled etc. at some young lady, and the lady wouldn't accept it but told him to shut up.

The man became aggressive, threw an ashtray at her and slapped her with force.

There were lots of reader comments to that news "why didn't the men who were sitting on a restaurant balcony near the incident protect the woman and capture the assailant, until the police would arrive". It was also women who complained about that.

I guess what I've learned today is that men should not try to "protect" women in incidents like that, because women can handle it themselves fine. And when you call the police, make sure only female police arrive because it would be derogatory if the policemen were... men. As if the victim needs protection from male policemen or something other patriarchaic.

No I am not totally serious, only partly serious.
Posted August 30, 2018
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timppu: I guess it is "derogatory" in the same sense as how men's only role in romantic comedies (aimed at women) or TV hospital series is to adore the female protagonist, and try to get her attention. Usually there are several men who are "competing" for the attention on that one woman, and all she has to do is to choose. "Oh no do I take Mr Big, or the international billionaire who wants to marry me? What to do, what to do, why can't I have both?"

It implies that the only reason for the existence for men is to get one woman's attention, and they don't have anything else in their lives, like video games.

Anyways, about the implication that "women can survive without men!"... Some time ago there was in the news the incident in Paris where a man (apparently some hardened street thug) whistled etc. at some young lady, and the lady wouldn't accept it but told him to shut up.

The man became aggressive, threw an ashtray at her and slapped her with force.

There were lots of reader comments to that news "why didn't the men who were sitting on a restaurant balcony near the incident protect the woman and capture the assailant, until the police would arrive". It was also women who complained about that.

I guess what I've learned today is that men should not try to "protect" women in incidents like that, because women can handle it themselves fine. And when you call the police, make sure only female police arrive because it would be derogatory if the policemen were... men. As if the victim needs protection from male policemen or something other patriarchaic.

No I am not totally serious, only partly serious.
Many women only want equality and preferential treatment when it is beneficial to them. They want to work physically demanding jobs, unable to work at the same level as most men, and complain they are paid less for being unable to perform at the same level. Some traits of men and women ARE different. They were made that way by nature. And no amount of shaming will make the average woman larger or stronger than the average man.

i do think women are treated unfairly in most markets. I do believe that women should be empowered. But I don't think they should try to emasculate men and replace them in parts of society where men, by nature are better fit for the work.
Posted August 30, 2018
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timppu: Or is everything misogyny nowadays?

The thing is, men and boys quite often like adventure and doing (or fantasizing) of doing heroic deeds where they are admired for their heroism. Women, on the other hand, enjoy cooking, raising children (preferably male children) and backstabbing each other. It's in our genes.
Genes, seriously?
I'm laughing so hard at this.

Just about every job is nowadays performed by men and women.
Security, police, fire department, soldiers, professional sports, the list goes on.

Plus, as a woman, I've no interest in anything you've ascribed to women.

- I like good food, but if I have to prepare it, I go with something quick and easy to make.
Would I be willing to "waste" much time even if a dish is good? No, never.

- Despite being healthy, I'll be perfectly happy if I never have kids.
All I see in babies and small children is the potential for a bomb of noise.
Being a mother is among the top of thing I don't want to experience.

- Backstabbing? As in being mean to someone for no good reason?
I prefer to avoid conflict and being as diplomatic as possible. Regardless of gender, I'll try to be kind to people.
If I've been wronged I'll try to see why someone did something hurtful, but I'll never go and make their life miserable.
If the "kill them with kindness" approach won't work, I'll just ignore them.

Since you made me laugh, let's see if I can return the favor with this joke.

A Matter Of Punctuation

An English professor wrote the words,

"Woman without her man is nothing" on the blackboard and directed his students to punctuate it correctly.

The men wrote: "Woman, without her man, is nothing."

The women wrote: "Woman! Without her, man is nothing."
Post edited August 30, 2018 by Wolfy777
Posted August 30, 2018
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Wolfy777: ...
Oh yeah? So, what heroic have you done today?

I've already saved a couple of princesses (and one prince, but let's not talk about that, it was a bit awkward...), and ran over a couple of aliens while driving home. I bet by midnight before I hit the sack, a couple of werewolves and/or vampires have faced their destiny as well.
Post edited August 30, 2018 by timppu
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionrescue teh princess!(71 posts)(71 posts)
(71 posts)