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Spectre: Isn't the problem with him selling a second hand game as new?
Yeah I would guess this is why they targeted him, and he should not advertise open software as new. However it's still weird Bethesda even has lawyers looking at such things.
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Anothername: Bethesda lawyers doing their best making Bethesda look like a bag of dicks;
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Gekko_Dekko: but Bethesda looks like that by its own, for the last few years
Can't and won't disagree with that. But asshat stunts like that do makes it look even worse IMO.
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StingingVelvet: Yeah I would guess this is why they targeted him, and he should not advertise open software as new.
But the article points up several times that he never unwrapped the game. Since it was never installed, the license was never put to use - it would be understandable that one might think that means it was still new. After all, WalMart doesn't make *anything* they sell as new, even the store-branded stuff - they buy it as a generic and resell it.
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Andrey82: Here is a full story of how gamer can't resell their discs with game: https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/11/17661254/bethesda-sell-used-games-amazon-block

Just one small quote from the article:

Philadelphia-based Ryan Hupp recently contacted Polygon to explain how he’d been forced by Bethesda to stop selling his copy of The Evil Within 2. He bought the game but never unwrapped it, he told us. He’d been expecting to purchase a PlayStation 4, but instead spent his money upgrading a gaming PC. Hupp said he often sells used goods through Amazon Marketplace, which works in much the same way as other online trading sites, such as eBay.

Bethesda’s legal firm Vorys sent Hupp a letter, which he forwarded to Polygon, warning that the game must be taken down and threatening legal action for non-compliance. In its letter, Vorys made the argument that Hupp’s sale was not “by an authorized reseller,” and was therefore “unlawful.” Bethesda also took issue with Hupp’s use of the word “new” in selling the unwrapped game, claiming that this constituted “false advertising.”

So, selling discs in now illegal or it is illegal only if game is unpacked and described as "new"?
That's completely illegal and he should find an attorney willing to file suit against Bethesda. Or, alternatively, he could file a complaint against the attorneys that were involved in the letter and get them sanctioned by the local bar.

Whether or not the sale is by an authorized seller has no impact whatsoever on the legality of the sale. They're just made because they won't have a 2nd chance to sell the game.
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Spectre: Isn't the problem with him selling a second hand game as new?
It sounds like the game is new, according to the top post it's still in its shrink wrap.

It's not really second hand if it hasn't been opened as all the same warranty bits would apply as Bethesda would have no way of knowing whether or not it was directly from an authorized retailer as it's still in the original packaging and their inventory system should have shown it being shipped to an authorized retailer.
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StingingVelvet: Yeah I would guess this is why they targeted him, and he should not advertise open software as new.
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OneFiercePuppy: But the article points up several times that he never unwrapped the game. Since it was never installed, the license was never put to use - it would be understandable that one might think that means it was still new. After all, WalMart doesn't make *anything* they sell as new, even the store-branded stuff - they buy it as a generic and resell it.
Pretty much, and there's no way that Bethesda would have of knowing it had changed hands in the meantime. This is just them being particularly large dicks about this. I'm still rather annoyed that iD is in with those jackwagons.
Post edited August 12, 2018 by hedwards
As far as I know reselling a game isn't illegal. They are trying to use scare tactics to try and deter enough people from doing it that it might become the new norm. This is just another facet of trying to turn gaming into a service.
This topic has a clickbaity title. There's no proof in the case mentioned that reselling used games is illegal. That Bethesda tries to prevent the reselling, doesn't have any effect on the applying laws. Bethesda must abide by the law and they'll probably loose the case if it goes to court, they're applying scare tactics. The law musn't abide to Bethesda.
Pete Hines Response:
Hines explained that the issue was not that Hupp was selling their game second-hand, but specifically that he listed it as 'new'. "All we're saying is if it's a previously owned product, you have to sell it as a previously owned product", he told Eurogamer.

"You could have opened it up," he went on to explain, "played it for five hours, taken whatever inserts or stuff was in there, put it back in shrink wrap and said, 'Hey this is new.' It's not new - you owned it, you bought it, so just list it as a used title. That's it, that's the end of the argument."

Hines was at pains to explain that they're not seeking to block sales of used games, so long as they're described as 'used' in the listing. "If you want to sell your copy of the game, it's 'pre-owned'. You can't say that it's new because I have no way to verify that, and ultimately that person is our customer we have to deal with and if there's stuff missing or things that have happened we're the ones that are going to have to make it right."
This is open and shut a case of the doctrine of first sale. If Disney can't force Redbox to stop being an unauthorized redistributor because Redbox legally purchased their copies, then this is right out. Once I buy it I can do with it as I please as long as I am not making illegal copies.
Ultimately:
Attachments:
truth.jpg (25 Kb)
Yep Pete Hines WHO owns a shrink wrap machine in their house Petey?
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paladin181: This is open and shut a case of the doctrine of first sale. If Disney can't force Redbox to stop being an unauthorized redistributor because Redbox legally purchased their copies, then this is right out. Once I buy it I can do with it as I please as long as I am not making illegal copies.
To this i refer you to

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Pheace: ...
Basically, Bethesda is assuming it actually was opened. Regular people actually can put plastic on boxes to make them look new, which i'm assuming bethesda's banking on, assuming they got the memo that it has plastic on it. I think it's a legit thing to bank on, too, given that we're talking about a major company. You usually odn't buy a title and hold onto it for a few years (as opposed to 20 or 30 to cash in on it's rarity). My guess is that if we look this guy up, he likely bought an 80 dollar shrinkwrap roll, got one off amazon, or something like that. Maybe he's innocent of that crap, but i think it's reasonable for Bethesda to question this.

And for those thinking that it's unreasonable for them to find it: that's what crawlers are for. Crawlers are bots that view web-pages and such looking for keywords.

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fr33kSh0w2012: Yep Pete Hines WHO owns a shrink wrap machine in their house Petey?
Wait, has this been confirmed?

EDIT: For once Reddit has a good discussion on something

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tinyE: Ultimately:
FINALLY FOUND SOMEONE TO USE THIS ON!!
Post edited August 13, 2018 by kohlrak
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kohlrak: Basically, Bethesda is assuming it actually was opened. Regular people actually can put plastic on boxes to make them look new, which i'm assuming bethesda's banking on, assuming they got the memo that it has plastic on it. I think it's a legit thing to bank on, too, given that we're talking about a major company. You usually odn't buy a title and hold onto it for a few years (as opposed to 20 or 30 to cash in on it's rarity). My guess is that if we look this guy up, he likely bought an 80 dollar shrinkwrap roll, got one off amazon, or something like that. Maybe he's innocent of that crap, but i think it's reasonable for Bethesda to question this.

And for those thinking that it's unreasonable for them to find it: that's what crawlers are for. Crawlers are bots that view web-pages and such looking for keywords.
In that case selling it as "new" would have been fraud. It's still legal to sell it.
I agree with Bethesda in this case. I've bought a lot of used games and it pisses me off that so many people don't list games in the condition it's actually in.

When I buy a "Like New" game, there should be no scratches or scuff marks on the disk, and it should come with the original case and all inserts. "Like New" means the shrink wrap came off, you played it less than an hour, decided you didn't like it, and packed it away with minimal use and no signs of wear or tear. When the shrink wrap comes off, it's not "New" anymore. It's like opening a can of soda. When you hear the "hisssss" of the CO2 coming out, it's now a used product. This applies to games, trading cards, comic books, and most other things.

Yet virtually everyone on Amazon and Ebay sells stuff in "Like New" condition, but show signs of wear and tear. Either they're completely ignorant, or they're out to screw you over.

"Good" means the original case and all inserts are there, but there might be some light scuff marks on the disk or case. Nothing broken, everything's operable, but there's minimal signs of wear and tear.

"Fair" condition means the original case and all inserts are there, but the case may be damaged, the inserts may be wrinkled or torn, the disk might have a scratch, but everything is there and operable.

"Poor" condtiion means it might not be in the original case, the inserts might be missing, the disk might be messed up, but the disk works.

You'll notice that "poor" condition is still operable. That's because if you're going to sell something that's broken, you need to be up front and admit that it's not the item it originally was, and sell it as scrap.
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kohlrak: Basically, Bethesda is assuming it actually was opened. Regular people actually can put plastic on boxes to make them look new, which i'm assuming bethesda's banking on, assuming they got the memo that it has plastic on it. I think it's a legit thing to bank on, too, given that we're talking about a major company. You usually odn't buy a title and hold onto it for a few years (as opposed to 20 or 30 to cash in on it's rarity). My guess is that if we look this guy up, he likely bought an 80 dollar shrinkwrap roll, got one off amazon, or something like that. Maybe he's innocent of that crap, but i think it's reasonable for Bethesda to question this.

And for those thinking that it's unreasonable for them to find it: that's what crawlers are for. Crawlers are bots that view web-pages and such looking for keywords.
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toxicTom: In that case selling it as "new" would have been fraud. It's still legal to sell it.
They've admitted from the beginning that htey don't care if it's sold or not, but rather that it's "sold as new."
Oops I just read they never removed the game from shrinkwrap.

Sorry about my rant. Bethesda is acting like a bunch of pricks.

They're probably concerned about people buying "new" games and then finding out the key has been used, and contacting Bethesda for a new key.

... Which they could avoid if they didn't load their games with DRM.
Post edited August 13, 2018 by iofhua