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General discussionRelease: Victor Vran(1056 posts)(1056 posts)
(1056 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 24, 2015
Greetings, Hunters!

<span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, an action filled next step in aRPG design, is available now for Windows and Mac - complete with GOG Galaxy Achievements, DRM-free, and 10% off for the first week!

In a genre that's seen immense highs and extended lows, it seems that we're always waiting for the secret formula for the perfect action RPG. Some say it's all about an overwhelming amount of loot, upgrades and treats galore. Others choose to experiment with new and innovative ways to connect their players, or to give them new types of control over making their character one of a kind. Victor Vran brings its own answers to the table.

It's a game that places movement and action first, truly putting the "action" in the aRPG, eliminating the boundaries of a traditional class system, and opting for freeform gear-based progression. A combat-oriented approach doesn't mean that Victor Vran is lacking in the other departments either - there's plenty of loot to collect and increasingly awesome weapons to find (including what looks an awful lot like a lightsaber) as well as innovative character progression. All that's there, however, is enhanced by an unprecedented movement system that will have you (and up to 4 of your co-op buddies) leaping, dodging and wallrunning. It's a game where survival is based on so much more than how hard you can hit.



GOG.com Exclusive Bonus
For a little something special, your copy of the game will come with a one-time-use GOG.com-exclusive Treasure Key! Just log in to your GOG.com account, start your single-player game, and redeem it in-game for a fountain of gold and the following drops:

- Med Kit (Legendary) - An endless healing potion.
- Hope Destiny Card (Uncommon) - Provides additional health when equipped. Can be equipped on level 2.
- Diamond Demon Power (Uncommon) - Creates a protective shield. Can be equipped immediately.
- Gift Box - A box that can be opened for random loot.
- Red, Green and Blue dyes - Used to colorize your outfit. Transmutation unlocks at level 16.




Q&A With The Devs
Have questions about the game that only the devs can answer? Join the team behind Victor Vran for a special Q&A session this coming Monday!
Boyan (Lead Designer) and Momchil (Designer) from Haemimont Games will be visiting our forums on Monday (July 27) starting 6pm GMT (8pm CEST / 2pm EST / 11am PST to answer all your questions about the game, the life behind game development, or their favorite type of sandwich. Save the date, stay tuned for the announcement thread, and come hang out with us.


Experience the definition of "a" in aRPG with <span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, DRM-free on GOG.com! The launch discount will last for one week, until Friday, July 31, at 9:59 AM GMT.
Posted July 25, 2015
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groze: System Shock 2 is not DRM-free, as it, too, has an online multiplayer component. I mean, how dare GOG release a game in which I can only access content (multiplayer co-op) by having to go online?! [/irony]

I've seen a lot of ad hominems in this thread, which surely are logical fallacies, but so is the slippery-slope argument most of the usual bandwagon naysayers immediately start spouting over and over again in here.
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throgh: Sorry, but this comparison doesn't fit at all. The multiplayer-component of "System Shock 2" is just a LAN-mode and can be used also via VPN. The multiplayer within "Victor Vran" is something else: A centralized, account-based mechanism to connect players for a gaming-session. Where do you get this comparisons? Please inform yourself a little bit better or ask questions. But don't compare carrots with potatoes.
I'm aware my comparison is far-fetched, to say the least, but, then again, so is the comparison made by all the people madly slippery-sloping around telling others lies when most of you *haven't even bought the game or know anything about it besides some vague statements made on some Steam thread*.

This isn't the first game GOG sells that features online third-party account activation; one that springs to mind is Race The Sun -- a game I also own. Race The Sun is an "endless runner" of sorts you actually play single player but requires you to be online to submit scores and share user-made worlds. You actually can't play it offline, and you do need to have a FlipFly account. Obviously, Race The Sun is a much smaller game, so, the usual bandwagon slippery-slopers let it fly by with no "OMG, GOG is going full-DRM on us!!!"

Raising concerns is good, and all, and I, too, wish for GOG to remain DRM-free, don't get me wrong, but I don't believe in fear mongering techinques, and that's what the... I don't even know how to call them, anti-Victor Vran on GOG people, perhaps? keep doing and pushing forward.

Slippery slope fallacies are based on extreme conjecture, so, it can go both ways: I could argue that GOG isn't going to go the DRM way because they released Race The Sun, which features similar third-party account activation, and didn't go DRM because of that. Even if you consider Victor Vran to have DRM locked content, that doesn't necessarily mean GOG is going to go full DRM from here on out. It's not as if GOG releases that many games with online components, to begin with. My conjecture is as valid as yours, as we're both working off of conjecture thought.

I've seen this happen many times before, and it'll eventually calm down and be forgotten. It has become common practice in the GOG News threads -- and most the threads in these forums, for that matter. Hence why most of us who used to be more active in the forums have decided to start interacting less and less.
Posted July 25, 2015
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MrAlphaNumeric: People need to relax and not get so hyped up about a simple online activation for MP. If the SP doesn't require online, which is the case here apparently, then no need to cry about DRM.
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jsjrodman: Unfortunately two different (related) single player features require online. The "exclusive bonus", and the ingame treasure map feature. The bonus is one-time (in every sense, you are online-check prevented from using it in second game), while the treasure map is potentially ongoing.
But lets not leave out that it does not stop you from obtaining the same said content offline by playing. In my opinion if it requires online then it not a single player feature, it's more of a MP feature that integrates with single player. This is one of these games were they both interact with each other.

Sort of like the online feature in Dark Souls were you could see players who have died and read messages from them...
Posted July 25, 2015
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groze: Then we clearly haven't been reading the same thread. Just sayin'.
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Starmaker: Nope. An ad hominem is a very narrow case so much that it's very rarely encountered in the wild outside of semi-scientific discussions. It is saying someone's argument is wrong simply because of who they are. What people in the thread are doing is calling each other names based on opinions expressed in the thread. I've been poking at the reply for ages and I still can't come up with a thread-appropriate ad hominem which wouldn't be meta.

A: "Victor Vran is DRM-free."
B1: "No it isn't. You're an idiot." B1 rejects A's statement and presents a new argument, that A is an idiot, backed by A's allegedly wrong statement as evidence.
B2: "No it isn't, fuck you." Swearing is not fallacious, per se.
B3: "You're a steam fanboy so you wouldn't know DRM if it bit you in the ass." B3 presumably disagrees based on other factors and then offers a probable reason for A's alleged confusion.

None of those are ad hominems! An ad hominem would be "It's DRM because you're an idiot" or something. No one in the thread whatsoever is making this argument because it's so blatanly fallacious. Post-counterargument name-calling and post-counterargument possible explanations for the other party's wrongness do not an ad hominem make.
They crop up. They just come in the form "clearly you are an imbecile and therefore have nothing to contribute to the discussion" specifically when cornered with a very clear argument. It's indirect, but it's basically saying "you're wrong because you're stupid." The ad hominem is there in the subtext.

But yes the "you're wrong and you're stupid" is waaay more common.
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jsjrodman: Unfortunately two different (related) single player features require online. The "exclusive bonus", and the ingame treasure map feature. The bonus is one-time (in every sense, you are online-check prevented from using it in second game), while the treasure map is potentially ongoing.
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BKGaming: But lets not leave out that it does not stop you from obtaining the same said content offline....
Leaving aside that the bonus-items experience is not the same as possibly getting the drops from other sources...

It *does* stop you from experiencing part of the game. You will never get code drops.
Post edited July 25, 2015 by jsjrodman
Posted July 25, 2015
high rated
I have had time to sleep on this and consider it all.

I have decided to post again on this topic because I truly do think there is something just not quite right about the whole thing.

Whether or not you consider this to be DRM within an otherwise DRM free release, whether or not you consider this an acceptable release on a DRM free platform, I believe that there is a damn good reason why it is being done and I will give an example. Again, whether or not you think the example is relevant is entirely up to you.

A dev that shall go unnamed some time ago decided to allow a retail game to be linked to a steam account at no expense to the player. No one said anything, many welcomed it. A few months later, optional DLC (similar to what is being offered here-completely optional and in no way impacting on the overall game) was released, but this time could only be accessed via steam. I said something, few listened. A few months later, their new release was announced-steam exclusive only. With hindsight the whole thing was bait for marketing research to move to a new DRM platform.

Perhaps I am being paranoid you say? Maybe I am. But this optional one time extra has definitely been done for a damn good reason (reinforced by the fact the code exists in the base game already). I believe at the very least it is for some marketing purpose, intention unknown. We all know that modern DRM is just as interested in gathering information as it is in protecting its product.

I believe people should be asking the dev and Gog exactly why this policy has been allowed, they must have known it would be an issue for many-regardless of your stance on DRM and this game.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post, it is not a rant- just my suspicious mind saying there is obviously some method here.

For the record I will not be purchasing this game.
Posted July 25, 2015
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groze: Then we clearly haven't been reading the same thread. Just sayin'.
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Starmaker: Nope. An ad hominem is a very narrow case so much that it's very rarely encountered in the wild outside of semi-scientific discussions. It is saying someone's argument is wrong simply because of who they are. What people in the thread are doing is calling each other names based on opinions expressed in the thread. I've been poking at the reply for ages and I still can't come up with a thread-appropriate ad hominem which wouldn't be meta.

A: "Victor Vran is DRM-free."
B1: "No it isn't. You're an idiot." B1 rejects A's statement and presents a new argument, that A is an idiot, backed by A's allegedly wrong statement as evidence.
B2: "No it isn't, fuck you." Swearing is not fallacious, per se.
B3: "You're a steam fanboy so you wouldn't know DRM if it bit you in the ass." B3 presumably disagrees based on other factors and then offers a probable reason for A's alleged confusion.

None of those are ad hominems! An ad hominem would be "It's DRM because you're an idiot" or something. No one in the thread whatsoever is making this argument because it's so blatanly fallacious. Post-counterargument name-calling and post-counterargument possible explanations for the other party's wrongness do not an ad hominem make.
You are right and I stand corrected, thank you for correcting my statement (no irony intended). Still, your B1 example could easily be mistaken by an ad hominem, since it tries to divert attention from the issue at hand to the supposed idiocy of the first party. And we have to face the thread is full of those (both parties involved being "guilty" of them, I'm not accusing one or the other) -- heck, right after that post of mine, one answer one user gave to another was just questioning their "reading skills". That might not be an ad hominem per se, but it's pretty close.
Posted July 25, 2015
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groze: This isn't the first game GOG sells that features online third-party account activation; one that springs to mind is Race The Sun -- a game I also own. Race The Sun is an "endless runner" of sorts you actually play single player but requires you to be online to submit scores and share user-made worlds. You actually can't play it offline, and you do need to have a FlipFly account.
A) Race the Sun can be played fully offline, no crippled singleplayer functions.
B) You don't need an account just skip the login.
C) If you want to download user generated levels or show off your scores to anyone else then you need to register an account. Nothing special.
Posted July 25, 2015
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lazydog: I have had time to sleep on this and consider it all.

I have decided to post again on this topic because I truly do think there is something just not quite right about the whole thing.

Whether or not you consider this to be DRM within an otherwise DRM free release, whether or not you consider this an acceptable release on a DRM free platform, I believe that there is a damn good reason why it is being done and I will give an example. Again, whether or not you think the example is relevant is entirely up to you.

A dev that shall go unnamed some time ago decided to allow a retail game to be linked to a steam account at no expense to the player. No one said anything, many welcomed it. A few months later, optional DLC (similar to what is being offered here-completely optional and in no way impacting on the overall game) was released, but this time could only be accessed via steam. I said something, few listened. A few months later, their new release was announced-steam exclusive only. With hindsight the whole thing was bait for marketing research to move to a new DRM platform.

Perhaps I am being paranoid you say? Maybe I am. But this optional one time extra has definitely been done for a damn good reason (reinforced by the fact the code exists in the base game already). I believe at the very least it is for some marketing purpose, intention unknown. We all know that modern DRM is just as interested in gathering information as it is in protecting its product.

I believe people should be asking the dev and Gog exactly why this policy has been allowed, they must have known it would be an issue for many-regardless of your stance on DRM and this game.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post, it is not a rant- just my suspicious mind saying there is obviously some method here.

For the record I will not be purchasing this game.
Wouldn't worry too much about it.

Worst-case scenario, and the sky is actually falling, just slowly so people won't notice until it's too late?
Take that advance knowledge, grab whatever you want to be able to hang onto, back it all up thoroughly, then sit back and watch as GOG implodes.

Or, if it's just a matter of a developer putting something together quickly that they thought would add a little extra something to their game being released, using the infrastructure they already spent time and money to set up, and GOG went along since the core game is DRM-free and the other stuff is optional?
Go on with life, play some games and enjoy yourself. =)
Posted July 25, 2015
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groze: This isn't the first game GOG sells that features online third-party account activation; one that springs to mind is Race The Sun -- a game I also own. Race The Sun is an "endless runner" of sorts you actually play single player but requires you to be online to submit scores and share user-made worlds. You actually can't play it offline, and you do need to have a FlipFly account.
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classicgogger: A) Race the Sun can be played fully offline, no crippled singleplayer functions.
B) You don't need an account just skip the login.
C) If you want to download user generated levels or show off your scores to anyone else then you need to register an account. Nothing special.
A) Victor Vran, too, can be played fully offline, with no single player funcions being "crippled"
B) You don't need an account, just don't play multi-player; also, ignore the "Connect" button
C) Why is registering a third-party account "nothing" special when it comes to Race The Sun, but apparently such a big deal when it comes to Victor Vran? It's pretty much the same thing, the things you get online with Race The Sun are online-only extra features of the game, such as those found in the online aspects of Victor Vran.
Posted July 25, 2015
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classicgogger: A) Race the Sun can be played fully offline, no crippled singleplayer functions.
B) You don't need an account just skip the login.
C) If you want to download user generated levels or show off your scores to anyone else then you need to register an account. Nothing special.
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groze: A) Victor Vran, too, can be played fully offline, with no single player funcions being "crippled"
B) You don't need an account, just don't play multi-player; also, ignore the "Connect" button
C) Why is registering a third-party account "nothing" special when it comes to Race The Sun, but apparently such a big deal when it comes to Victor Vran? It's pretty much the same thing, the things you get online with Race The Sun are online-only extra features of the game, such as those found in the online aspects of Victor Vran.
A) treasure/bounty hunts?
B) this means you won't get the same experience anyone else would get (like someone with internet connection)
C) you are not forced to create an account to get the same singleplayer experience in "Race the Sun" like anyone else
Posted July 25, 2015
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groze: A) Victor Vran, too, can be played fully offline, with no single player funcions being "crippled"
B) You don't need an account, just don't play multi-player; also, ignore the "Connect" button
C) Why is registering a third-party account "nothing" special when it comes to Race The Sun, but apparently such a big deal when it comes to Victor Vran? It's pretty much the same thing, the things you get online with Race The Sun are online-only extra features of the game, such as those found in the online aspects of Victor Vran.
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classicgogger: A) treasure/bounty hunts?
B) this means you won't get the same experience anyone else would get (like someone with internet connection)
C) you are not forced to create an account to get the same singleplayer experience in "Race the Sun" like anyone else
The game is exactly the same even without the treasure hunts. Yes, they only drop online, but they aren't required to enjoy the single player experience of the game. It's the same game for everyone, if everyone only plays it offline. Just like FlipFly's Race The Sun. Sharing worlds and scores is a *huge* part of the game, and you can't do it if you don't create an external account. It sounds easy to me. It's not the same game whether you play it offline or online. Same with Victor Vran. You probably won't get the same experience playing it offline than some other person playing it online, that much is true, but the base game is exactly the same. No change whatsoever.

Well, at least now I'm glad the GOG version of Spelunky doesn't have daily challenges. As much backlash as that generated -- and putting people off the GOG version of the game --, I have to wonder how worse would it have been if they did include the daily challenges behind a third-party account wall.
Posted July 25, 2015
@groze

Now it gets interesting. Do *we* agree that it's *necessary* to play Victor Vran online (even singleplayer) so all players share the same experience?
Posted July 25, 2015
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lazydog: I have had time to sleep on this and consider it all.

I have decided to post again on this topic because I truly do think there is something just not quite right about the whole thing.

Whether or not you consider this to be DRM within an otherwise DRM free release, whether or not you consider this an acceptable release on a DRM free platform, I believe that there is a damn good reason why it is being done and I will give an example. Again, whether or not you think the example is relevant is entirely up to you.

A dev that shall go unnamed some time ago decided to allow a retail game to be linked to a steam account at no expense to the player. No one said anything, many welcomed it. A few months later, optional DLC (similar to what is being offered here-completely optional and in no way impacting on the overall game) was released, but this time could only be accessed via steam. I said something, few listened. A few months later, their new release was announced-steam exclusive only. With hindsight the whole thing was bait for marketing research to move to a new DRM platform.

Perhaps I am being paranoid you say? Maybe I am. But this optional one time extra has definitely been done for a damn good reason (reinforced by the fact the code exists in the base game already). I believe at the very least it is for some marketing purpose, intention unknown. We all know that modern DRM is just as interested in gathering information as it is in protecting its product.

I believe people should be asking the dev and Gog exactly why this policy has been allowed, they must have known it would be an issue for many-regardless of your stance on DRM and this game.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post, it is not a rant- just my suspicious mind saying there is obviously some method here.

For the record I will not be purchasing this game.
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CarrionCrow: Wouldn't worry too much about it.

Worst-case scenario, and the sky is actually falling, just slowly so people won't notice until it's too late?
Take that advance knowledge, grab whatever you want to be able to hang onto, back it all up thoroughly, then sit back and watch as GOG implodes.

Or, if it's just a matter of a developer putting something together quickly that they thought would add a little extra something to their game being released, using the infrastructure they already spent time and money to set up, and GOG went along since the core game is DRM-free and the other stuff is optional?
Go on with life, play some games and enjoy yourself. =)
Wise words.

I already have my collection extensively backed up.

You're right, but I just wanted to get it off my chest and into this thread.

I shall retire now and watch the fireworks, thanks for the wisdom :)
Posted July 25, 2015
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classicgogger: you are not forced to create an account to get the same singleplayer experience in "Race the Sun" like anyone else
you are not forced to create account in victor vran.

the bonus code is part of the bigger system that developers created for users playing online mode of the game. if you play online you will get multiple such code bonuses with bounties or treause keys and yes, they could carry over to singleplayer - at least some of them do. but this is an extra ON TOP of single player experience. just like having achievements are added to your singleplayer game if you launch it using galaxy and stay online.

so the whole story boils down to this: developer wanted to give to all players first welcome code. seems they couldnt display it in game when launching online mode (and in such cases none of the butthurt people here would even care) but instead given it to gog to distribute with purchases. no part of the game content was ever removed and hidden behind any drm.
Posted July 25, 2015
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classicgogger: you are not forced to create an account to get the same singleplayer experience in "Race the Sun" like anyone else
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d2t: you are not forced to create account in victor vran.

the bonus code is part of the bigger system that developers created for users playing online mode of the game. if you play online you will get multiple such code bonuses with bounties or treause keys and yes, they could carry over to singleplayer - at least some of them do. but this is an extra ON TOP of single player experience. just like having achievements are added to your singleplayer game if you launch it using galaxy and stay online.

so the whole story boils down to this: developer wanted to give to all players first welcome code. seems they couldnt display it in game when launching online mode (and in such cases none of the butthurt people here would even care) but instead given it to gog to distribute with purchases. no part of the game content was ever removed and hidden behind any drm.
I'm really sick of it. Nobody beside you and maybe 5 other guys care about the bonus code. No one else is speaking about it.
Posted July 25, 2015
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classicgogger: you are not forced to create an account to get the same singleplayer experience in "Race the Sun" like anyone else
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d2t: you are not forced to create account in victor vran.

the bonus code is part of the bigger system that developers created for users playing single and multiplayer online mode of the game. if you play online you will get multiple such code bonuses with bounties or treause keys and yes, they could carry over to singleplayer - at least some of them do. but this is an extra ON TOP of single player experience. just like having achievements are added to your singleplayer game if you launch it using galaxy and stay online.

so the whole story boils down to this: developer wanted to give to all players first welcome code. seems they couldnt display it in game when launching online mode (and in such cases none of the butthurt people here would even care) but instead given it to gog to distribute with purchases. no part of the game content was ever removed and hidden behind any drm.
corrected that for you

and treasure maps are single/multiplayer content which define goals to accomplish ingame to get loot
Post edited July 25, 2015 by MaGo72
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionRelease: Victor Vran(1056 posts)(1056 posts)
(1056 posts)