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A cultivated student is the perfect fertilizer for society's growth. Or something.



<span class="bold">No Pineapple Left Behind</span>, a playful insight into the fruitless methods of modern education management, is available now DRM-free on GOG.com for Windows, Mac, and Linux, with a 10% launch discount.

Do you remember that kid from junior high who reminded you of a pineapple? Always eager to please the teacher, sit quietly through classes, take tests, and compare grades? For a school principal, this is the stuff of dreams. But because life is a cruel hag, he is usually stuck with *human* children instead. Ugh. Well, thankfully, this travesty is finally coming to an end!

See, running a school is no child's play. The little devils are unruly, demanding, unpredictable beings. But pineapples express no desires and exhibit no tendencies towards insubordination. Good grades and unquestionable obedience are profitable for the school, so as a sensible businessman, your job is to turn children into pineapples and not ever let them change back. Some parents may raise concerns and you've also got the teacher's work schedules, the students' curriculums, and the needs of your staff to manage, but with spells like "Trigonomancy" at your disposal, this should be easier than reciting the alphabet. It starts with a "p", right?



Weed out the bothersome students and fill your buzzing classrooms with compliant fruit in the satirical manager/simulation <span class="bold">No Pineapple Left Behind</span>, DRM-free on GOG.com. And if you enjoy the whimsical sound of studious pineapples, make sure to also grab the game's <span class="bold">OST</span>. The 10% launch discount will last until February 25, 4:59 PM GMT.
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rampancy: I can try and answer for them -- and I will warn you, I am making some very gross generalizations that paint things in very broad brush strokes, so the most important thing for you to do is to inform yourself about the issues (not just in the US but in your home country of course).
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write this post and I don't mind the generalization, I can always just browse the internet if there's a specific viewpoint I'd like to see.

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rampancy: In brief, the game specifically skewers the No Child Left Behind Act enacted by Republican Party President George W. Bush shortly after his inauguration -- a massive set of education reforms stressing standardized testing, and metrics-centric evaluation of teachers and schools. For more information on it, see John Oliver's segment on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lyURyVz7k
I assume you're talking about Bush senior, right? Because the roots of this problem are probably deep enough... I'll probably watch the video you linked to later on, but still I can comment from now that testing around here isn't at all standardized -in elementary schools, everyone goes automatically to the next grade, and in gymnasiums and lyceums (roughly the equivalent of american middle and high schools before college/university) people sit final exams to pass to the next grade the papers of which are made by the school themselves -only in order to go to the university people sit in an examination that's the same for everyone and state-made (presumably the rough equivalent of SATs). Thus the grades aren't that important to the state (they are to parents however, who sometime pressure teachers into giving their child a better grade) until the entrance-to-uni exam after which newspapers publish stuff like e.g. "Students went slightly better in Maths" (because the paper was easier this year duh!) "but slightly worse in Modern Greek" (because e.g. the subject of the essay exercise seemed complicated to the students or something). At any rate, some areas of the world (southeast Europe included) "lag" behind the US in terms of education systems, so I'd expect this stuff you have to come around here in 10-15 years...

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rampancy: In short, NCLB was a set of right-wing education policies in the US, and this game was largely intended to be a response to that.
That's a really important point you have right there. I hadn't really thought that because a Republican government instated this stuff everybody against could be thought as belonging to the left and vice versa (that is, everybody who belongs to the left would automatically oppose this system). Around here, both the center-left and the center-right goverments that switch every 4 years talk about educational reforms, but nobody ends up doing anything substantial, but if something substantial changed, the change would be the same whether it'd be instated by the "left" or the "right"...

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rampancy: Yes, you could argue that people on both the "Left" and the "Right" argue that public education as a whole has fallen significantly, but I would say that where they differ is in *how* to address that issue. With respect to the state of education in the United States, people on the Right have arguably pushed for a metrics-based system of education that favors the private/corporate sector, whether it be private/for-profit charter schools, education vouchers, and/or public schools using corporate-based testing and training materials.
So, if I understood correctly, the "right" thinks that education will get better if children get better grades at tests. This imo isn't very logical because, well, they could totally make a test with super easy questions and then say "Look, everybody got A/ 90-100 % !" (at least that's what happens a lot around here- teachers actually have to dumb down the questions -especially in STEM- in order for many students to get a better grade, so that their parents won't go against the teachers). On the contrary the situation in the USA looks more complicated than that -from what I've seen there's both the easy questions but also some dumb/outlandish ones (the Hare and the Pineapple the dev mentioned a while ago in this thread was a slight "lol, what?" to me -especially that moral- I mean the pineapple didn't have sleeves, but neither did everybody else...) and some needlessly comlpicated ones (when I saw the links to the Math questions of the common core via the relevant gog thread I was like "how would I be able to solve this thing??? It looks more complicated thatn it is!", which of course leads some people to say that they did this on purpose to discourage people from learning even regular, everyday math... (I personally don't know what to think about this).
As for the private education, because where I live used to be a British colony until half a century ago, the vast majority of private schools teach with the British model and in freaking English! So if someone wants his kid to be educated in Greek (which is well what the maternal language of people actually is), he pretty much has to take his kid to a public school... So the state around here doesn't really occupy itself with the private sector, because of both the different language in which stuff is being taught and the wholly different education and examination system used in these schools, contrarily to the public ones...

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rampancy: On top of that is the unique situation in that many social and political Conservatives have pushed for very specific contemporary US Right-winged educational positions (e.g. attempts to undermine science education by teaching Intelligent Design Creationism, Abstinence-only Sex Education)
Ah yes the scourge of Creationism and absence of a proper biology lesson. Around here people are taught in the public schools, in the gymnasium/middle school grade (12-15 yrs old), in the biology class, how the genitals of both sexes look from the inside and how they work, the sexual and other diseases one could contract at these parts of the body (including the diseases that can affect pregnant women) and some basic prevention advice. So even if the system here is lacking in some other aspects, in that one it was pretty good, as I still remember the basics of this stuff, about 9-10 years later... As for the Religion lesson (yes, the basics of orthodoxy are taught in public schools), we were told about the basic contents of the book of Genesis amongst other stuff (mainly New Testament), but the teachers of that lesson (a priest initially, later on a graduate of Theology) didn't really insist on it being the way the world was created -the priest was admittedly more reticent to darwinism, but still, I didn't feel forced to admit his opinions... (As for my own views, I'm of the opinion that God created the Big Bang -well, it does sound plausible...)

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rampancy: People on the Left are pushing for increased public funding and support for public education from government (as well as other government social services, like after school programs, day care/child care programs, support programs for poor/immigrant families, school lunches, programs for special needs students, etc.)
Well, I actually agree with this stuff, does that make me a part of the left (I wonder)? We don't have quite as many after-school programs and the special lunches system started getting organised just recently from what I've heard, but still this could help improve some conditions, although I'm also of the opinion stuff should be taught better somehow so that students can have some more knowledge in diverse educational areas - how this sould be implemented is the problem...

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rampancy: As for leftism and satire? IMO, they have pretty much nothing to do with each other, at least for this purpose. The only link is that it's satire intended to target the Right-winged policies that have politically dominated education in the US for the past ten years.) I'm sure some clever Conservatives out there could make up a game satirizing the failings of public education while legitimately extolling the virtues of private/religious/charter education.
Yes, satire is something all political parties can do obviously.
All in all, my question is apparently a cultural one. Where I live, the left behaves pretty much the same as the right, but in Greece (which is close to where I live) they look as if they're trying to bring a communist regime to Greece/ ressurect a system that was extensively proved inefficient and destructive, so I thought of myself as non-left because I'm against this ambition of theirs. Maybe if I grew up and lived in America I'd consider myself thusly part of the "left" as well. So yeah, apparently these guys just used the wrong term (they should have used "anti-corporational games" instead or something). Thanks again for taking the time to address this cultural misunderstanding I had...

P.S. Heh, while I was writing all this the developer showed up again and then went offline again. Hopefully he''ll read what I said just now and see it was just me having a different definition of the term...
Post edited February 19, 2016 by Treasure
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drmfro: Bingo. I don't actually object to either game being available on GOG. But I do object to and think it's fair to highlight GOG's double standards.
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ncameron: Quick question - what are GOG's criteria for selecting games?

If, like me, your answer is 'I don't know', meaning that we don't actually know the standard for selecting games, it's a bit harsh to be calling them for double standards. There may be reasons beyond the nicheness (is that a word?) for a game not to appear here.

Just a thought.
The stated reason for rejection that GOG has sent to developers in the past is "too niche."
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gamesfreak64: the game is 3d like so i have to pass (motionsickness)
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Starmaker: It's not the evil FPP 3d, it's more like a 2d game where you can manipulate the camera. If or [url=https://images-2.gog.com/539059ca4f216098c1519e6e9566598569a3f5a1ccc9f3a1ff75514ff921c926.jpg]this doesn't make you sick, NPLB (probably) won't, either.
thanks for the reply and the screenshots.

As long as its static and doesnt move its okay but when it starts moving the problems begin.
its hard to explain since the number of people who have it are few.
After playing games for 40 years and having the motionsickness for 40 years, i found out after some testing (took me 3 years) what kind of games i can and cant play, so the last 36 years i am buying only those games i am 100% certain i can play. Every game i have i can play.

Pillars for one is a game that after playing a few times does not seem to be the thing i can get used to but its only 1 game so that is not bad.
I thought it would play more like a kind of bitmap engine game but pillars uses other engine, like i said its very hard to explain what i can and can't play, and why i am not able to play it.
You cant imagine how a broken leg feels until you had one broken, or had a similar bone broken.
I never broke anything ( and i tend to keep it that way by being very careful) so i dont know the feeling.
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subalterngames: Are you trying to play the game fullscreen? Try running it in a window (this is an ongoing issue with Unity-built games on Mac)
I’ve tried running it in a window at 1366 x 768 (my Mac’s native resolution) in addition to windowed, as well as 1280 x 720 and 1152 x 720, in fullscreen as well as windowed, with no change.

I’m still a little baffled by it though, as again, I’ve never encountered this in any of the other Unity games I have. Is there a workaround you or I could try out to address this? I’m not averse to doing some terminal or .plist file hacking, if need be.

Cheers!

Edit: I do have an external 21" 4:3 monitor attached to one of the Macs I used, so I'll try and see how the game behaves on that...
Post edited February 20, 2016 by rampancy
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ncameron: Quick question - what are GOG's criteria for selecting games?

If, like me, your answer is 'I don't know', meaning that we don't actually know the standard for selecting games, it's a bit harsh to be calling them for double standards. There may be reasons beyond the nicheness (is that a word?) for a game not to appear here.

Just a thought.
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Chacranajxy: The stated reason for rejection that GOG has sent to developers in the past is "too niche."
That's the stated reason. Do you really think that the only criterion they decide their choices on is 'nicheness'?

"It's too niche" could be an easy answer to give if it was part of the reason for reaching the decision. It could be possible that there are other factors as well that are less easy to put into words, e.g. if there was difficulty in negotiations with the dev, which typically neither party is allowed to discuss with anyone else, and would be unprofessional to mention publicly.
Post edited February 20, 2016 by ncameron
I wonder if this is the right place to mention that I actually have professional experience as a standardized-test essay scorer.
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Treasure: I assume you're talking about Bush senior, right? Because the roots of this problem are probably deep enough...
No, it actually Bush Jr., as the No Child Left Behind Act was passed in 2001.

It's interesting hearing you describe what I can only assume to be the Cypriot education system. It's pretty much how the Canadian system used to operate (except that most universities used to take just your final term marks for your subjects over your last two years in high school and generally didn't have an entrance exam). At least before the "reforms" that hit in the early-2000's turned it into something very much like what's seen in the US (and arguably depicted in the game).

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Treasure: That's a really important point you have right there. I hadn't really thought that because a Republican government instated this stuff everybody against could be thought as belonging to the left and vice versa (that is, everybody who belongs to the left would automatically oppose this system).

Around here, both the center-left and the center-right goverments that switch every 4 years talk about educational reforms, but nobody ends up doing anything substantial, but if something substantial changed, the change would be the same whether it'd be instated by the "left" or the "right"...
And this is more of a personal rant, but that's not too far off the mark (IMHO) when it comes to describing the political discourse in the US and (a somewhat lesser extent in Canada). The mainstream left (IMHO) in the Democratic Party isn't so much "Left" (in the Political/Socially Progressive sense) but is more "opposite-of-Right". In the case of this game I'd make the argument that it's "Leftist" because it's clearly criticizing very clear Right-wing policies and ideologies (see the game's gamecard screenshot where you have to destroy the Teacher's Union). It's not "Leftist" in that the game isn't espousing Marxist-Leninist philosophies. (As far as I can see, at any rate.)

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Treasure: So, if I understood correctly, the "right" thinks that education will get better if children get better grades at tests.
Yes, because NCLB was set up in part to address the gap in achievement scores between the US and other industrialized nations like Canada, and those in Europe and Asia. It was also inteded to try to address the gap between students in affluent areas and areas with low social/economic status.

The problem (again, IMHO) is that education is far, far more than just test scores. Formal test scores only are just only a small part of evaluating the whole picture of a student's learning -- any educator will tell you that. Student performance can be influenced by many other factors, including specific learning styles, nutrition, family life, and mental/emotional health.

The other problem is that instead of trying to take a holisitic approach to improving education, NCLB reduced it entirely to the teacher...Oliver explains it well in his video posted earlier, but it's the idea that the teachers are themselves graded based on their students' performance on the standardized test...and the teacher's salaries or employment depends on that grade. Which is total BS seeing as how (a) the test questions are ridiculous, and (b) a student's learning and academic perfomance/achievement can not be reduced entirely to their standardized test score.

The idea may be good on paper, but in practice it's ridiculous. It would be like saying to an Oncologist, "We're now only going to pay you based on how many cancer patients you can successfully treat."

The problem with private education at least in North America is (a) the danger of corporate interference (e.g. how comfortable would you be with a technical high school that gets funding and materials from Apple? Or Electronic Arts?), and (b) inequality in quality of education. This is just IMHO, but it's an injustice for a student to not have the opportunity to get an excellent quality education just because they're not wealthy.


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Treasure: Well, I actually agree with this stuff, does that make me a part of the left (I wonder)? We don't have quite as many after-school programs and the special lunches system started getting organised just recently from what I've heard, but still this could help improve some conditions, although I'm also of the opinion stuff should be taught better somehow so that students can have some more knowledge in diverse educational areas - how this sould be implemented is the problem...
No, it just makes you someone who actually understands what needs to be done to help students and their communities. :) Again, IMHO, the whole "Left" vs. "Right" labelling is just noise, and doesn't really mean all that much any more. For example, in South Korea, the Right-wing Conservative party tried to push an ambitious (and arguably very progressive!) standardized test for English education that heavily stressed performance-based evaluation. Meaning that students had to actually use and practically apply the language for their grades -- which is how second language learning should be evaluated -- instead of purely answering test questions. Vocal opposition from the Left-wing party killed it because the Teachers' Union was afraid that the test scores would be used to unjustly hire or fire teachers (despite government assurances to the contrary).

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Treasure: Yes, satire is something all political parties can do obviously.
All in all, my question is apparently a cultural one. Where I live, the left behaves pretty much the same as the right, but in Greece (which is close to where I live) they look as if they're trying to bring a communist regime to Greece/ ressurect a system that was extensively proved inefficient and destructive,...
Again, I personally think the whole "Left" vs. "Right" distinctions only serve to further polarize and divide people, instead of fostering mutal understanding, cooperation, and reasoned, balanced discussion.
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yogsloth: I wonder if this is the right place to mention that I actually have professional experience as a standardized-test essay scorer.
I'm really curious to know (because I want to genuinly hear your experience), what was it like, vs. the test-scorers on John Oliver's segment? I actually applied to be one myself during my teacher's college days, if only to get a little extra change for coffee in my pocket.
Post edited February 20, 2016 by rampancy
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rampancy: Thank you. I just filed a support ticket with GOG support, but I'll also email the address above. Is it possible it could be tied to this bug?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/unity-mac-app-not-respecting-player-settings-width-height-aspect-ratio.168614/
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DancingEngie: Thanks. Since only one team member has a Mac computer (not a notebook), it's been hard verifying the game functions on Macs. The fact that Unity has really obnoxious Mac/Linux bugs doesn't help.
I've already emailed Seth about this, but could these links help shed further light on this issue?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/full-screen-stretching.290117/
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/webplayer-wrong-aspect-ratio-when-in-fullscreen.248829/
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yogsloth: I wonder if this is the right place to mention that I actually have professional experience as a standardized-test essay scorer.
So, in this context, it makes you a pineapple slicer, right?

So, how was it? I, too, would be most interested to know.
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rampancy: I'm really curious to know (because I want to genuinly hear your experience), what was it like, vs. the test-scorers on John Oliver's segment? I actually applied to be one myself during my teacher's college days, if only to get a little extra change for coffee in my pocket.
First, just to put it out there, I'm coming from the right-hand side of the political spectrum. That's not to try and present a stumbling block to discussion – just to be up front so you’ll know where my perspective begins. It will quickly become more than obvious, however, as I am writing this sentence after everything below where I veer WAY off topic.

I used to work for a for-profit testing company. They made money giving tests, and I did many things for that company, among them both multiple-choice question writing (fun) and essay scoring (no fun). I wouldn’t present the essay-scoring as quite the horror story the nodding individuals in the linked video portray it to be, but understand that everything we are discussing here is rooted in reality.

I was paid per essay, where each essay was essentially a full handwritten (and later on typed) page of text. (One whole fat dollar, I believe, it’s been a few years.) I was trained to spend about five minutes per essay and told what to look for and how to score. Training was adequate. I took my job seriously and did my best to be fair and accurate, and I generally got the sense that my co-workers did as well.

The reality of the situation is that after you’ve read a few hundred, when using a simplified five or six-point scale, you can peg an essay’s score in seconds.

Is it fair? Maybe. Maybe not. But I could certainly tell just by doing a quick eye-bounce across the tops of each paragraph whether you could construct a coherent sentence, whether you were addressing the relevant topic, and whether you organized your thoughts logically. If you wanted a perfect score, I had to pay a little more attention in order to not be cavalier about it, but if you were a 2 or a 4, I could tell nearly instantly.

And when a pile of hundreds of essays lands on your desk, you do what you have to do.

So where does reality come in?

Because I am not on the Left, I have an intrinsic understanding of a basic fact of life: there is no Infinite Supply of Other People’s Money. (Henceforth ISoOPM.) Everything must be paid for. Nothing is free. Do you want to evaluate millions of schoolchildren? You must pay for it, because those essays don’t score themselves. The eternal socialist ideal of simply spending more and more and more of the ISoOPM to bury whatever problem comes across your path simply isn’t real. You can’t improve education only by throwing money at it. And when you spend money, you have to manage your resources.

Would those kids be smarter if you paid me more money to read slower?

Would they be smarter if the teachers’ union negotiated an even more lucrative retirement package than the six-figure lifetime salaries they already enjoy? (Here in California, at least.)

Would they be smarter if we abolished testing completely and simply… gave everyone a participation medal and wished them luck? After all, if we’re not allowed to test for achievement, what possible metric could we ever use? How would you ever know if you were succeeding or failing… unless you have some way of quantifying that?

How do you improve the educations of inner-city schoolchildren whose parents barely care if they live or die, let alone how they perform academically?

There is no perfect answer. With millions and millions of children, choices must be made. I’m not specifically defending the “No Child Left Behind” program as I owe it no loyalty, but I’m no fan of simply skewering a legitimate attempt to improve education on a simply mind-boggingly massive scale without offering much of an alternative other than spend, spend, spend, spend that ISoOPM and our problems will magically go away.

The brutal secret is that it doesn’t matter what you do for the bottom-most sector. Ready to be offended? Most poor people in a free, progressive society like the USA are poor because they make bad choices. Neglecting one’s own education and the education of one’s children is foremost among these (followed closely by “have tons of kids out of wedlock”), and unless you can figure out a way to change culture, you aren’t going to get results no matter what tactic you try in the classroom.

My children attend public schools.

They are not pineapples.

Their teachers and principal and administrators are not attempting to turn them into pineapples.

And they are learning.

But of course, my wife and I take responsibility for their education, and what they receive at school is only a portion of what they are expected to learn. Their homework (both school-assigned and parents-assigned) is completed every evening or they don’t play. Can you spend enough money to make… less fortunate… parents act the same?

And I can still score your essay in about thirty seconds.
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rampancy: In short, NCLB was a set of right-wing education policies in the US, and this game was largely intended to be a response to that.
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subalterngames: This is all mostly accurate.
No, it isn't. No Child Left Behind had near-unanimous bipartisan support.

Two of the bills four co-authors were Democrats, and two were Republicans.

In the House of Representatives, 197 Democrats and 186 Republicans voted "yes", while 10 Democrats and 34 Republicans voted "no".

In the Senate, the bill passed 91 to 8. Democrats and Republicans again nearly unanimously supported the bill, with only 2 Democrats and 6 Republicans voting "no".

Also, support for No Child Left Behind has declined for the better part of a decade. With strong bipartisan support (in the House, 359 yes - 64 no; in the Senate, 85 yes - 12 no), President Obama signed the Every Student Succeeds Act into law on December 10, 2015, returning some power to the States (but retaining standardized testing requirements).

Libertarians warned from the start that No Child Left Behind was a terrible idea. Democrats and Republicans, socialism and facism, are two sides of the same authoritarian coin (see The Road to Serfdom; read the pdf version for free at mises.org).

Read more about NCLB and ESSA at Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Student_Succeeds_Act

Also:

http://reason.com/tags/education
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subalterngames: This is all mostly accurate.
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SeduceMePlz: No, it isn't.
Hey - get out of here with your "facts"! This isn't the place for you.

MASSIVE RIGHT-WING AGENDA CONSPIRACY. You know.
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yogsloth: Hey - get out of here with your "facts"! This isn't the place for you.

MASSIVE RIGHT-WING AGENDA CONSPIRACY. You know.
Lol. :)
just because someone is a democrat doesn't mean they're not conservative/serving a conservative agenda

NCLB needs to be done away with already, holy shit, the madness

we'd seriously be better off with anarchy and self-governing, but, yeahhhhh *sigh* the future is fucked unless people get a clue and that is not really happening in schools because the powers that be don't want things to change because they'd lose all their sheep...errr, pineapples!
Post edited February 20, 2016 by drealmer7
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yogsloth:
Thanks.

Have you read "The Hare and The Pineapple" and its six questions (http://usny.nysed.gov/docs/the-hare-and-the-pineapple.pdf; takes a while to load, but does eventually)? What do you think about it?