RawSteelUT: You never have to worry about that. You're one of the most level-headed people here.
By itself, no, but when you think about it, this is what EVERY fucking discussion about EVERYTHING degenerates into.
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In this, I agree, but I think you'd agree that the more reasonable voices were... Drowned out by the more toxic elements of the discussion. And let's be honest, if it weren't for the undercurrent of extremism in every fucking thing nowadays, this might not have happened at all.
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For example, in the "I hope this isn't 3D Realms' last Build game" thread, Sevnarco said "With the way they are bending over to appease a minority of
mentally ill mutants, it might just be their last build game." There are plenty of examples of this.
For right-wing strawmen and conspiracy theory, a good example comes from "Review bombing, seriously?" In which Kmanitou says "Buying a product isn't supposed to be
supporting Marxist indoctrination and "reeducation programs", funding alternate lifestyle agendas and promoting censorship, which are all things that the publishers have attached to the product.
These are old right-wing talking points that have been around as far back as I can remember.
Let's also not forget earlier in this thread, from post 246 to post 253, that LootHunter used a highly partisan source to make it sound like a child was being abused, or all while trying desperately to link it to LGBT people as a whole.
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No one's saying don't argue with passion. Hell, far from it. But personal insults only burn bridges and harden hearts. It's worth remembering that there's more than a few women, LGBT people and ethnic minorities who AGREE with the principal of free expression, as we all should have learned during GamerGate. Insulting them to "get back at" SJWs isn't any different from SJWs attacking gamers as a whole, and reason works better than hate in the long run.
Hopefully you're right in the long run. Ion Fury is a fucking FANTASTIC title and deserves its support.
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As for "having a pony in the race," I will
never apologize for feeling that an organization that helps LGBT teens find help in environments that are less than supportive is a good thing. Take that how you will. In the absence of non-partisan evidence to say they
push for transitions, there's no base for the accusation. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that.
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Hopefully, you understand where I'm coming from, as I've tried to understand where YOU are coming from. I just feel that the case could have been made without turning this into an excuse to vent bigotry and partisanship. LGBT people didn't do anything here, Resetera did.
First off, thanks for replying and being so kind/civil and giving me the compliments(even if it sadly earned you a slew of downrates by the "fans" of mine here). That said:
1st bit- A bit hyperbolic if you mean every conversation online......but even if just here it's not always the case. Also we should cherish the good moments and civil conversation we do get(which happens more often than others seem to admit or think).
2nd bit- They may be drowned out but remember....the more rational usually stay away from such discussions or stick to their smaller out of the way ones. As such the high numbers of such comments in more public discussions shouldn't be held as the best indicator of how most handle such in discussion or would handle such(if that's any consolation).
Also somewhat true......if the original voices hadn't spoken up it might not have happened....but then again with how most people make such accusations as "jokes" or to divide people online it might still have if some had chosen not to.
Imo more rational minded people need to speak up and drown out the moronic extremists(both sides) so we can re-civilize the debates on various topics and show some people can hold mature conversation and be level headed.
3rd bit- I agree such talking and generalization is bad and doesn't help their case, but(playing devil's advocate a bit here) I can see why some of them are upset to some degree over the various things the opposition has pushed/which people have to follow publically else be called all sorts of names & worse.
I don't agree with HOW they show their displeasure but I admit some of it is justified. 4th bit- I agree insulting people just to spite those that advocate wrongly for them is wrong, and I think they'd make a better case and better debate could be had and understanding reached more often if people debated civilly and used less insulting language.
5th bit- Agreed and good points on the charity.....I looked into them and they seem to mainly do s*uicide prevention which seems a noble cause.
6th bit- This is all also good points and true, and I THANK YOU PROFUSELY for trying to talk with me civilly here.
Btw an aside: Resetera didn't start it....a chan troll(from what I read) brought the stuff in the game to their attention to get resetera to complain.....so we've all been had by trolls unfortunately. ==========================
(Also I sent you a friend invite: You seem to be a level headed person willing to talk and not low rate and walk away or insult me as some seem to like doing)
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Lastly thanks for the debate and making some good points. Kudos for all that.
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================ GameRager: They didn't change much(and did it to get the pressure down) & people are overreacting, and voting with your wallet(sadly) doesn't achieve much anymore due to others buying a game/movie more than those who boycott.
3DMaster: So... doesn't achieve much anymore, huh?
https://sparkchronicles.com/ion-fury-will-no-longer-be-censored-behind-voidpoint-and-3d-realms/
It was nice but it's a fluke as most usually don't boycott or don't do so permanently/in large enough numbers to matter(sadly).
This is welcome news but with how hard it is for large numbers to stick to such movements for long it's sadly the exception rather than the norm. :\
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============ RawSteelUT: No one's saying don't argue with passion. Hell, far from it. But personal insults only burn bridges and harden hearts. It's worth remembering that there's more than a few women, LGBT people and ethnic minorities who AGREE with the principal of free expression, as we all should have learned during GamerGate. Insulting them to "get back at" SJWs isn't any different from SJWs attacking gamers as a whole, and reason works better than hate in the long run.
3DMaster: And where has anyone done that? Oh, right, nowhere.
Do you mean marginalized/etc supporting free speech or the insults against marginalized groups? If it's the latter then check the steam forums for the game. They mention such groups "being behind the censorship" many times without proof along with the others trying to push their beliefs.
