Gets to you too, doesn't it?

Honestly, neither "side" looks good here.

The Resetera folks are still the power tripping idiots they have always been.

The right, however, hijacked the discussion, filling it with anti-LGBT vitriol, right-wing conspiracy theories and the occasional strawman.

Everyone looks like ass, and a great game has to suffer for it.

At least a good cause got some money out of it, so there's that. Other than that, however, it's just been a clusterfuck the whole way through.

A bit of criticism/nitpicking if I may(please do not get overly offended) -

1st bit: It's not that big a deal....like environmental disasters/wars/etc.

2nd bit: There are more than 2 sides and variations of each....some do make some good points, and to me lumping them all as looking bad(and by extension anyone who choose not to participate in the discussion as good/etc) sounds a bit smug.

3rd bit: Agreed for most of them.

4th bit: What woukld you consider anti-LGBT vitriol? I am genuinely curious on this part. Is it those calling it the work of s*ws?

5th bit: At least some are willing to argue for or against something with passion and not sit on the sidelines while putting on airs as some(not you per se) do. It is not always a bad thing to get involved in the world or it's events.

Also the game won't suffer. It has already likely sold many copies, and even more after the new announcement.

6th bit: Good cause? Well that shows you DO have a pony in this race, so to speak, and are not staying neutral on the matter.

As for me: While I think the charity chosen isn't all bad & the donation should be left as is I DO think that if they encourage young kids to transition that is not a good thing to do(per my beliefs) & that such would likely be reason to give some people pause per the donation.


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This 100%.

I think everyone should have games made for them to some degree, but that others shouldn't force other games to all conform to their own morals and beliefs/desires/etc.

If you don't like that, do what you can from your part and us gamers as a whole, so as games can be censor and politics/agenda-free, developers remain hassle-free with untied hands, to assume artistic liberties and freedom in expression, as they deem fit, then!

As you can see, mixing videogames and cultural Mario, always ends up poorly, as far as a sheetshow is concerned. Eliminate the cause and the effect is certain to vanish! All this was needless. But action brings reaction; it's just that simple!

To me i'd rather have some fight back against bad moves on the part of people/companies/etc than sit idly by and do nothing. At least those people do something about things they dislike instead of twiddling their thumbs and watching from the fence top.

The best argument against free speech is the average "free speech activist".

There are some good ones out there, but many nowadays see "bad" speech as okay to censor(some of our ancestors who supported and fought for such in the US would likely be turning over in their graves so fast they could power an entire state over such) to possibly maybe stop some from doing bad things.

As Ben Franklin said(supposedly): "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

They also only seem to want stuff they dislike censored but if someone wanted something they liked censored they'd likely change their tune.

I just hope that the publishers take a look at how many sales they gained by listening to people who were not going to buy their game in the first place and then compare it to the amount of sales gained by listening to people who wanted to buy or had already paid for the game.

I don't expect them to do the right thing out of the goodness of their hearts, I expect them to do the right thing because happy customers bring more sales in the future.

All good points, and offtopic: Your avatar is kicking and sweet. :D

It's a crappy argument, which means all arguments against free speech are even worse crap.

Nothing could possibly go wrong! Unless they forget to fire whoever decided to let the game in here in the first place.

Firing your own people is the best way to make sure there's going to be someone new to blame for the next mistake.

Why do you feel that free speech needs to be restricted by law?

Because they can?

You never have to worry about that. You're one of the most level-headed people here.

1: By itself, no, but when you think about it, this is what EVERY fucking discussion about EVERYTHING degenerates into. In this, I agree, but I think you'd agree that the more reasonable voices were... Drowned out by the more toxic elements of the discussion. And let's be honest, if it weren't for the undercurrent of extremism in every fucking thing nowadays, this might not have happened at all. For example, in the "I hope this isn't 3D Realms' last Build game" thread, Sevnarco said "With the way they are bending over to appease a minority of mentally ill mutants, it might just be their last build game." There are plenty of examples of this.

For right-wing strawmen and conspiracy theory, a good example comes from "Review bombing, seriously?" In which Kmanitou says "Buying a product isn't supposed to be supporting Marxist indoctrination and "reeducation programs", funding alternate lifestyle agendas and promoting censorship, which are all things that the publishers have attached to the product.

These are old right-wing talking points that have been around as far back as I can remember.

Let's also not forget earlier in this thread, from post 246 to post 253, that LootHunter used a highly partisan source to make it sound like a child was being abused, or all while trying desperately to link it to LGBT people as a whole. No one's saying don't argue with passion. Hell, far from it. But personal insults only burn bridges and harden hearts. It's worth remembering that there's more than a few women, LGBT people and ethnic minorities who AGREE with the principal of free expression, as we all should have learned during GamerGate. Insulting them to "get back at" SJWs isn't any different from SJWs attacking gamers as a whole, and reason works better than hate in the long run.

Hopefully you're right in the long run. Ion Fury is a fucking FANTASTIC title and deserves its support.

As for "having a pony in the race," I will never apologize for feeling that an organization that helps LGBT teens find help in environments that are less than supportive is a good thing. Take that how you will. In the absence of non-partisan evidence to say they push for transitions, there's no base for the accusation. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that.

Hopefully, you understand where I'm coming from, as I've tried to understand where YOU are coming from. I just feel that the case could have been made without turning this into an excuse to vent bigotry and partisanship. LGBT people didn't do anything here, Resetera did.

So... doesn't achieve much anymore, huh?

https://sparkchronicles.com/ion-fury-will-no-longer-be-censored-behind-voidpoint-and-3d-realms/