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General discussionRelease: Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar(203 posts)(203 posts)
(203 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 12, 2019
For all the fans of classic RPGs this title will be like a journey through time.

It took creators many years to develop Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar, but our patience has been more than rewarded. The title features a beautiful 2D hand-drawn artwork, more than 244 maps to explore, and provides the gamers with over 600 hours of play.

Buy Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar on GOG.COM and get a 25% discount until 2nd January 2020, 2 PM UTC.
Posted December 13, 2019
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NuffCatnip: Thanks for the link! :)
I'm off to work now, but I'll make sure to read it on my lunch breaks.
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fronzelneekburm: As with many articles about Stones Of Arnhem, this one is riddled with errors and gross distortion of facts. Take this sentence for instance:

It seems like the team has been put together rather haphazardly; it included actor Max Phipps and filmmaker Phil Moore, only later more “conventional” game development staff like programmers Michael Shamgar and Cleveland Blakemore were brought on bord.

It's hilarious how these two clowns (Phipps and Moore), who flushed hundereds of thousands of dollars down the toilet and had nothing playable to show for it, get a free pass, yet it's Cleve and Shamgar (i.e. the only people who did any actual development) who are the ones singled out as being "controversial". The fact is that Sir-Tech was ready to shitcan the whole thing because huge sums of money had been wasted on two failed Australian actors playing at being gamedevs when they hired Cleve for a pittance to basically build the entire game from scratch.

The experience proved so traumatic for Cleve that he figured that he'd be better off developing a Wizardry-inspired RPG all on his own. That's how Grimoire was born.

There's significantly more to this story and the details are so incredibly outrageous and outlandish (Penisaurus, anyone?) that when Cleve (who at that point was considered a shitposting conspiracy nut who touted his own vaporware as the greatest RPG of them all) broke the story on the Codex many years ago, literally no one believed him and he was collectively ridiculed. Cleve's story has since been vindicated by none other than Robert Sirotek himself (who basically went "Hahaha, lol, it's all true but it doesn't matter because Cleve has been working on his own game for 20 years, hahahaha!") and thanks to leaks from the Sir-Tech archives (Hello, penisaurus concept art! The leak also included Cleve's resignation letter which again backed the whole story up).

If you're really interested in this saga, I recommend you check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPJ540kINP4. It doesn't nearly scratch the surface, omits or only fleetingly mentions some interesting details (like how Sir-Tech thanked him for his efforts by putting him into Jagged Alliance 2 as a joke character to further spite him) and it gets some of the timeline of events wrong, but overall it's a pretty good introduction that will give a more detailed rundown of Cleve's internet persona, his involvement with Wizardry - Stones Of Arnhem and the genesis of Grimoire (the vid also dedicates a bit of time to the ShitAlpha feud and at the end).

So, to get back to your first question:

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NuffCatnip: I'll join the rest that already asked: Is this a joke game?
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fronzelneekburm: No, absolutely not. Quite the contrary, even the detractors should be able to admit that this is a passion project if there ever was one.
Thank you for the informative answer, I didn't know this game had that much history to it. Will watch the video once I'm home.

And I'll definitely watch an in-depth review/gameplay video of the game to see wether it's for me or not.
Thank you! :)
Posted December 13, 2019
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rjbuffchix: Yes!!!!! Finally! So glad to see this game here. This is an insta-buy.
Yes, finally, all that brigad...I mean WISHLISTING paid off....:D

o.0

*whistles and walks away*
================================

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RWarehall: My only suggestion for the brigaders...
You better put your money where your mouth is, or else the next game you stump for likely won't be accepted...
I was about to and then someone bought it for me....at this price, though, it's a no brainer.
================================

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Yeshu: When the game out it was basically in early access so GOG waited for the game to be "completed" while some people raged that "We want it NOW!!!".
Gog essentially rejected them and only seemingly took them now because enough interest was generated.
Post edited December 13, 2019 by GameRager
Posted December 13, 2019
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fisk0: But as I said, I suggest everybody checks the developer out themselves and decide on their own if they want to support this or not. I do wish that people more actively did this with more games though, and actually were consistent with what they decide to do, because there's no shortage of devs deserving of the same criticism.
Who cares what the people think who make things we buy? Do they force us to believe as they do or put the money to extremely bad uses? If no, then why worry about it?

If we all knew half the things most companies do we'd likely not want to buy many things we like in response.
Posted December 13, 2019
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fronzelneekburm: He really only gets pissy about criticism if either of these happens:

- Someone buys the game, pens a bad review and then immediately gets a refund.
- Someone has dozens of hours put into the game and still gives it a thumbs down (in Cleve's mind if you put 10+ hours into a game means that it was good enough to keep you playing and therefore shouldn't be given a thumbs down)
Considering the type of game, playing it for 10+h and still leaving a negative review seems perfectly reasonable to me, and if the developer gets upset about that, that would seem like an inability to take criticism. Wizardry and Wizardry-like games do tend to be rather "rules heavy", and it would take quite a few hours of gameplay until you fully grasp all the mechanics.
There are several cases where I've spent more than 10h on a game, waiting for the point where it gets truly good, as long as there seems to be something of interest in there. I think I had like 3 false starts in Wizardry 6 before I really got into it and felt like I had a firm grasp of the mechanics, and that was easily at least 8h spent on that game (Wizardry 6 was incidentally the first game of its type I played). Turned out that while I could see a lot of good in Wizardry 6, I still ended up thinking it was not worth my time, and would have left a negative review on it. I don't hate Wizardry 6, I just don't think it's worth the time investment.
Similar thing happened to me with Pride of Nations. Different type of game, but my point here is still that with some games you need to invest a lot of time into it to know if you think it's good or not. And if the Pride of Nations devs would have got pissy with me over me thinking that that game has too many flaws for me to recommend it, despite having spent 10+h in it, I would find them really immature.
Posted December 13, 2019
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fisk0: I suggest everybody checks the developer out themselves and decide on their own if they want to support this or not.
Oh, we completely agree here. I was merley stating my own point of view but everybody have and should decide for him or herself.

Funny though that I have been downvoted

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_grimoire_heralds_of_the_winged_exemplar_967b8/post61

when telling my own opinion (even saying explicitely that my decision is not valid for everybody) and critizising in another part of the post that others can't decide for me what games are good or bad ... yes, I am sure these are well deserved downvotes ;) But I guess that's just the bad part of the GOG forum/community and most people are reasonable here. Well, at least I hope those downvoters now are satisfied and had their fun abusing the rating system in this way. Maybe one day you will understand what this buttons were meant for ... but maybe not since there's maybe just not enough intelligence there to realize this at all.

And yes, I expect this to be downvoted again but could not help myself to post it anyway :D
Post edited December 13, 2019 by MarkoH01
Posted December 13, 2019
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MarkoH01: Well, at least I hope those downvoters now are satisfied and had their fun abusing the rating system in this way. Maybe one day you will understand what this buttons were meant for ... but maybe not since there's maybe just not enough intelligence there to realize this at all.
Imo that's not rep abuse.....for others to do so to one post they disagree with.....it IS rep abuse when it happens on all one's posts in a thread or forum regardless of content or context, however.

Also +1 :)
Post edited December 13, 2019 by GameRager
Posted December 13, 2019
I hope that some of these people who are flipping out never do anything wrong, whether or not they intended to, and then get found out by someone that thinks the way that they do. Are you prepared to not ever be forgiven? Not sure why that kind of thing matters since we're talking about a videogame and its developer. Even if you don't like the guy, he could still make a good game, couldn't he?

Think about all of the stuff you've used that was produced by what you might consider to be shady people. Ever used gasoline, had a bank account, had a prescription filled, or consumed processed food?
Posted December 13, 2019
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fronzelneekburm: Remember the last time someone posted an archived link to a now-deleted Tweet in an obvious attempt to stir up people and it cost a guy his livelihood? You sang a very different tune back then. In fact, I remember you (understandably) making a thread about it defending the guy.

If you approve of i_hope_you_rot's post, you approve of the same shitty tactics that cost Linko his job as a CM.
Oh, of course I remember him and I remember my thread and I did not change my opinion or my POV. However we are talking about completely different things here.

In this case the dev posted imo nasty things some dislike and I consider this to be immature and decided for myself to not buy something from him. I posted this deleted post just to give dditional information and not to "stir things up". Everybody who knows me is well aware that "stiring things up" just for the sake of it is not what I want to do. I also stated that everybody should make their own decision - I did not even suggest to not buy from him, I was only talking about myself and imo this was clear in my post. I never asked to punish the guy in any way, I simply said that I don't want to support him.

In the case of the other guy you mentioned he also posted something some people did not like - but it wasn't a direct insult or even a complaint it was a bad joke that obviously was not very funny for many people and they felt insulted/offended. But no matter if it was intended or not I would not want to see him punished which still is the case. My whole thread was never about "letting it go" it was only about not doing any drastic measures ...

Can you see the difference between not wanting to support somebody by giving him money (without telling anybody else to do the same) and wanting someone to not get punbished too extreme?

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MarkoH01: Well, at least I hope those downvoters now are satisfied and had their fun abusing the rating system in this way. Maybe one day you will understand what this buttons were meant for ... but maybe not since there's maybe just not enough intelligence there to realize this at all.
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GameRager: Imo that's not rep abuse.....for others to do so to one post they disagree with.....it IS rep abuse when it happens on all one's posts in a thread or forum regardless of content or context, however.

Also +1 :)
Well ... then ... and maybe GOG could say if this is the case .. I understood the rep system wrong myself. I only downvote posts whenever these are

a) Spammers
b) Direct insults

I never thought about it in the way of "I disagree" to the post since in this case we would have many, many downvoted posts here. An argumentation will always consist of arguments and counter arguments and the latter will automatically mean that people are disagreeing.

But I guess I will better leave this thread now since - like I said - I don't want to stir things up and I obviously did this without having intended to do so (I really just wanted to give an information somebody showed me myself) and state that I personally would not buy the game if it were a game for me because of this. However this was never even my type of game so I would not have bought it anyway ... maybe I should have left this release thread alone in the first place. I entered a warzone and got burned ... maybe the downvotes where deserved after all.

So bye everybody - and sorry to everybody I might have offended.
Post edited December 13, 2019 by MarkoH01
Posted December 13, 2019
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MarkoH01: Well ... then ... and maybe GOG could say if this is the case .. I understood the rep system wrong myself. I only downvote posts whenever these are

a) Spammers
b) Direct insults
That's what I do for the most part(90% of the time) too.

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MarkoH01: I never thought about it in the way of "I disagree" to the post since in this case we would have many, many downvoted posts here. An argumentation will always consist of arguments and counter arguments and the latter will automatically mean that people are disagreeing.
Some might not have the time or feel motivated to want to reply as such, so they will low rate to "hide" the post and show their disagreement/disapproval.....although this shouldn't be done on every post by someone, imo.

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MarkoH01: But I guess I will better leave this thread now since - like I said - I don't want to stir things up and I obviously did this without having intended to do so (I really just wanted to give an information somebody showed me myself) and state that I personally would not buy the game if it were a game for me because of this.
I think you spoke civilly and did so very well, fwiw.

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MarkoH01: However this was never even my type of game so I would not have bought it anyway ... maybe I should have left this release thread alone in the first place. I entered a warzone and got burned ... maybe the downvotes where deserved after all.
Lol(not at you, but calling this a warzone), if think this is a warzone you should see threads on games in reddit and such....this is nothing. Also you don't seem to have garnered much negative response so you likely didn't offend many here at all. :)

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MarkoH01: So bye everybody - and sorry to everybody I might have offended.
Fwiw I have no problem with you sticking around and replying some more, if you so choose....regardless, have a good one.
Posted December 13, 2019
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MarkoH01: In this case the dev posted imo nasty things some dislike
Yeah, he was probably sore over the initial rejection and decided to vent. He later reconsidered and nuked the post. And that should have been the end of that. Not only did someone dig up an old post in a blatant attempt to hurt this game, someone went to the trouble of ARCHIVING this post, which is a pretty shitty and underhanded tactic. That's what I object to. And when you quote that same archive link as a reason not to buy the game, sorry, they played you like a fiddle. I know that you're one of the less drama prone users here, so I thought I'd point that out. Whether anybody wants to buy the game or not is their own business. But please don't be fooled by transparent smear campaigns.

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MarkoH01: I understood the rep system wrong myself.
Clearly, the downvote button was intended as an easy-to-use tool to quickly get to the next post because scrolling is for nerds.

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MarkoH01: So bye everybody - and sorry to everybody I might have offended.
No need to apologize, bro. You're cool in my book.
Post edited December 13, 2019 by fronzelneekburm
Posted December 13, 2019
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MarkoH01: In this case the dev posted imo nasty things some dislike
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fronzelneekburm: Yeah, he was probably sore over the initial rejection and decided to vent. He later reconsidered and nuked the post. And that should have been the end of that. Not only did someone dig up an old post in a blatant attempt to hurt this game, someone went to the trouble of ARCHIVING this post, which is a pretty shitty and underhanded tactic. That's what I object to. And when you quote that same archive link as a reason not to buy the game, sorry, they played you like a fiddle. I know that you're one of the less drama prone users here, so I thought I'd point that out. Whether anybody wants to buy the game or not is their own business. But please don't be fooled by transparent smear campaigns.

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MarkoH01: I understood the rep system wrong myself.
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fronzelneekburm: Clearly, the downvote button was intended as an easy-to-use tool to quickly get to the next post because scrolling is for nerds.

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MarkoH01: So bye everybody - and sorry to everybody I might have offended.
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fronzelneekburm: No need to apologize, bro. You're cool in my book.
I wonder how many of the petulant peeps in outrage mode over Cleve Blakemore do business with monsters like Jeff Bezos?

My money says all of them. lol
Posted December 13, 2019
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fronzelneekburm: He really only gets pissy about criticism if either of these happens:

- Someone buys the game, pens a bad review and then immediately gets a refund.
- Someone has dozens of hours put into the game and still gives it a thumbs down (in Cleve's mind if you put 10+ hours into a game means that it was good enough to keep you playing and therefore shouldn't be given a thumbs down)
Or if you state simple observations. For example, mentioning that negative reviews of a game can provide more information about a game than positive reviews. (And I mean real, substantial critiques - not just "this game Sucks!"; those are as useless as the "Great game!" reviews - no information.).

Unfortunately, the dev has some serious mental issues exemplified in his response to non-inflammatory comments.

Given his typical response, I find it highly unlikely that he ever had a peaceful and coherent discussion with anyone over the problems with the game.

For those of you who are desperate for another wizardry type game, this is very similar. For those who don't want to support unstable individuals, that is sad because you will want to avoid Cleve as much as possible.

(And for the record, there are several companies I won't do business with because I deplore their tactics/philosophy/lack of morals.)
Post edited December 13, 2019 by rlnonay
Posted December 13, 2019
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fronzelneekburm: Yeah, he was probably sore over the initial rejection and decided to vent. He later reconsidered and nuked the post. And that should have been the end of that. Not only did someone dig up an old post in a blatant attempt to hurt this game, someone went to the trouble of ARCHIVING this post, which is a pretty shitty and underhanded tactic. That's what I object to. And when you quote that same archive link as a reason not to buy the game, sorry, they played you like a fiddle. I know that you're one of the less drama prone users here, so I thought I'd point that out. Whether anybody wants to buy the game or not is their own business. But please don't be fooled by transparent smear campaigns.

Clearly, the downvote button was intended as an easy-to-use tool to quickly get to the next post because scrolling is for nerds.

No need to apologize, bro. You're cool in my book.
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richlind33: I wonder how many of the petulant peeps in outrage mode over Cleve Blakemore do business with monsters like Jeff Bezos?

My money says all of them. lol
This is a big standard in the industry when it comes to shitting on certain devs while forgiving others for their dirty backstabbing deals or even some getting praised and new jobs like Zoe Quin who possibly drove a man to suicide with the fake allegation but she gets held up high on a pedestal. I have yet to see people boycotting all the studios using their employees as slave labor. People always only bitch when it suits them. The industry is full of racist individuals but they get a free pass cause they do some virtue signaling on the sides.
Posted December 13, 2019
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richlind33: I wonder how many of the petulant peeps in outrage mode over Cleve Blakemore do business with monsters like Jeff Bezos?

My money says all of them. lol
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dgnfly: This is a big standard in the industry when it comes to shitting on certain devs while forgiving others for their dirty backstabbing deals or even some getting praised and new jobs like Zoe Quin who possibly drove a man to suicide with the fake allegation but she gets held up high on a pedestal. I have yet to see people boycotting all the studios using their employees as slave labor. People always only bitch when it suits them. The industry is full of racist individuals but they get a free pass cause they do some virtue signaling on the sides.
The world is in such bad shape that we are getting close to the point that it can only get better. I hope. lol
Posted December 13, 2019
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dgnfly: This is a big standard in the industry when it comes to shitting on certain devs while forgiving others for their dirty backstabbing deals....

People like to spread the circle of poo around, sadly, but it's what moves us forward as well in some cases
(Note: Semi gross imagery/lyrics, YT video with sound)
Post edited December 13, 2019 by GameRager
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionRelease: Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar(203 posts)(203 posts)
(203 posts)