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UrzeTorgos: Sealioning and concern trolling is skill to be done in moderation.
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ReynardFox: I don't know why some are engaging so intensely with this guy in this thread, his framing of the situation has been entirely and deliberately dishonest, not to mention patronizing.
They say it will be their last reply, and then someone engages and they answer. It started entertaining but I agree, it is too condescending now.
TEST ( having some tech difficulties )
( this response will be in more than 1 part for same reason as usual: GOG's buggy forum CMS )

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lostwolfe: most of the reason i bought this up was to suggest that gaming is a spectrum and that it has changed over time to incorporate a lot of different ideas.
" Let me lecture you on the history of the subject, none of which you may possibly know because you are younger than ME! ARGH! "

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lostwolfe: put another way: if games CANNOT ever be about real world topics then books shouldn't be about real world topics, and likewise, movies shouldn't be about real world topics and art in general shouldn't be about real world topics.
I never said "CANNOT BE". I said "PRIMARY job", but ofc it would be beyond you to see that, since you are too focused on cherry picking my words and then bending reality to misinterpret them.

Most movies to date aren't biographies or documentaries. Most are fiction.
It could be argued same for books of modern age.
Your argument was already dead on arrival.

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lostwolfe: since they worked on a superhero game [specifically, they worked on su*cide squad: kill the justice league.]

you can look this up - and you may be surprised to learn it, i'm not sure, but /some/ of the very earliest superhero comics are SPECIFICALLY political in nature
How about you stop dodging my question?
Are games SBI works on MEANT to be political in nature FIRST AND FOREMOST? ARE THEY??

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lostwolfe: games are about many different things. entertainment might well be something that a game can do, but it isn't the only thing.

as i suggested: if you're just not interested in that style of game, that's fine. there's plenty of games out there for you that you can enjoy.
ANSWER my question:
Are the games SBI is involved in MEANT to be political subject loud speakers first and foremost ?!

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lostwolfe: i want at least /some/ of my games to have meaning and be art.
Meaning / art / politics are 3 COMPLETELY SEPARATE topics and NEITHER of them needs the other to be present, in order to exist by itself.

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lostwolfe: with all due respect, you're missing the point here
With all due respect, you are closing your eyes and covering your ears to not notice things said by others, who could possibly change your opinion.
It almost seems like a belief that you have is more important to you than truth.

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lostwolfe: related to "a mind forever voyaging, again."

i was building toward my closing statement and wanted to add context.
Your experience with a random political game is 100% irrelevant to this conversation. You do not seem to represent average gaming interests of this world.
You are projecting your political topics enjoyment into this conversation, for no real reason.

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B1tF1ghter: Define enjoyment for me please. Because I get the impression you are thinking about another word.
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lostwolfe: not going to do this.
Dude, you're a riot! :D

Whatever words you are thinking about - enjoyment doesn't mean what you seem to believe it does.
People playing Dark Souls, sweating their cheeks off, being on edge of masochism, feeling euphory when finally beating a boss, even tho PERHAPS for YOU it would be the definition of unhappiness and torture. Even so, THEY enjoy it.

It seems to me, you are applying your personal definition of "FUN" and "ENJOYMENT" and ignoring the academia and dictionary definitions - the very ones I was referring to when I was talking about "game devs' primary job".

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lostwolfe: there was nothing nefarious in my choice of words. it wasn't a trap.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAKnbIr6TE

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lostwolfe: a) i don't think sbi shoved anything into any game. the kotaku article pretty much spelled this out. the developers approach sbi. sbi look at the situation and suggest ideas. the developers either take or leave those ideas. i don't think it's much more complicated than that.
Unsubstantiated claim.
Also, considering how frequently you bring up Kotaku and barely ever ( NEVER? ) any other sources, one could think you are their blind fan.
Certaintly it's clear your trust in Kotaku is much higher than 'internet average'.
To the point it would almost seem like PERHAPS you have personal ties with them of some kind.

( part 2 will be sent in 10+ minutes or if someone posts in the meantime )
Post edited March 18, 2024 by B1tF1ghter
( PART 2 )

( for some reason I had real technical issues sending the first part, I had similar issues with this part, and it's really frustrating, hence it's shorter )

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lostwolfe: it would be IMPOSSIBLE to say, "ok, i can see the hand of sbi here."
A whistleblower / insider would do just fine.

You use a very weird logic, you cherry pick and bend reality, you are projecting your own preference trying to claim it's one of "the general public", and for some reason you are DEAD SET at referencing Kotaku over and over again.
Couldn't you quote ANY different source?

By the way, you have a very strange style of spacing in your messages, those weird double new-lines for no apparent reason and in odd spaces.
Someone ( else than me ) has even already made a joke about it in this thread, but seems like you are too oblivious to read the room.
I'm not saying your writing style is wrong. It's simply UNUSUAL enough to be noticed.

You also keep making completely unprovable claims, such as this one:
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lostwolfe: that political bent - and the political bent of almost ANY piece of media is there and would have been there REGARDLESS of sbi's involvement with it
It seems to me, that perhaps you have already formed your opinion, you have then encased your feet in concrete, and you won't go anywhere regardless of any argumentation. Perhaps I'm wrong. But the longer I read your messages the more this seems plausible.

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Gersen: ( ... )
( Yes I did in fact read your post in full )
TLDR:
1. They are extremely unprofessional
2. Their practises are shady
3. Their "POSITIVE contribution to gamedev world" is highly QUESTIONABLE **at best** ( the biggest benefit of a doubt given to them ).
4. The company who is SUPPOSEDLY about 'pro equality', decided to TRY and silence free speech because they didn't like it. They tried to rally an online mob to cancel some people who criticised them ( the Steam group / Discord / etc ) by creating a cyberbullying ( mind you, a CRIME in many world jurisdictions ) campaign.

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lostwolfe: the folks who made the list, et al, were seeing a b**geyman where there simply wasn't one.
The people who made the list, made it for the sake of general public being able to more easily identify games the given company was involved in, for the sake of making more informed purchase decisions.
IMO such a list should exist for EVERY company ever involved in gamedev, that would be the ultimately freedom of information where everyone could make their own decisions.
Whoever attached their agenda to the list afterwards, is a separate topic, and they should be judged separately.

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lostwolfe: but the ENTIRE fiasco is just a consp*racy the*ry
Are you trying to claim all the employees of SBI who have publicly stated very not good things, what they said, etc, is not true?
Because if so, that's a wild take. Especially considering all those words were archived in so many places :P

You may think what you want about SBI, you may even love them ( for some reason, like you know, for EXAMPLE being secretly paid to defend them online ), but the fact is, several of their employees ( including their CEO ) have said some very strangely hostile things online, for the whole world to see.

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lostwolfe: the consp*racy the*ry does a number of things, but one of the kind of silliest is that it attributes WAY too much power to sbi. sbi simply does not have the power that the detractors believe it does. they're 16 people. their methods are opt in. i'm not sure how the detractors even think that works, but it is - not to put too fine a point on it - ridiculous.
Oh Im sure you can prove this whole argumentation easily ;) Forget the fact that MAYBE some people cannot prove AGAINST your theory, but YOU yourself cannot prove in FAVOUR of it either :P Haha :D

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kultpcgames: GOG is still a contact point for “good old games”
I think this stopped being a major selling point years ago :P

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tremere110: essentially being happy they would prevent him from accessing his library of games
As far as I know from both public info, and talking to Valve privately in the past - forum perma-bans ( which are RARE, temp bans are far more likely ), don't affect ability to play the games. There are separate bans for: community ( FORUMS ), VAC, games, trading on community market.
They are all independent, getting one does not affect another.
That is at least my understanding anyway.

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rojimboo: Do you maybe see now why I asked you those eight, admittedly slightly leading, questions? No? Well let me "dumb it down" for you. It was to expose the fact that your own prejudice completely took over you and in a knee-jerk reaction, you went ahead to boycott anything a media source says, based on what you've heard in alternative sources that do conform to your beliefs. As I suspected, you have not used any critical thinking to evaluate the article and source yourself.
You are funny and inaccurate. You seem of belief that just because you attack and accuse me personally, just because of that, you are correct.
You are however mistaken.

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rojimboo: To be honest, at this point, I seriously doubt you ever even read the article, as you nerd-raged frothing at the mouth crusading against "wokeness".
You are hillariously pressed on the "ME" part, meanwhile you fail to prove me wrong.
You are so fixated on ATTACKING ME, that you largely tooned down commenting on the SBI itself, instead attacking ME and some others who may not agree with your POV.

And I simply do not have time to do full blown editiorial. I am already one foot outside of this thread anyway due to lack of RL time.

Maybe calm down your justice boner and focus on facts, instead of virtue signaling and attacking ME personally.
Also, if you think I'm "crusading against wokeness", you must've been skipping my words and not paying attention.
I think I have made it abundantly clear by now that I couldn't give a FLYING F about what kind of character I play as, or who is in the game, AS LONG AS it makes SENSE, and is done NATURALLY - making SENSE in the STORY, and from the perspective of the LORE of the game's universum.
I DO have issue with ARTIFICIAL SOFTWARE SLOP, which doesn't make in-lore sense, and "someone is somewhere JUST BECAUSE 'equality numbers'".
I have issue with artificial bullshit. I don't have issues with "groups of people".
Maybe pay more attention to my words next time.

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rojimboo: 1. You have acategorically dismissed the Kotaku article due to it being from Kotaku.
2. You claimed (many times) that everyone knows it's unreliable, inaccurate and without journalistic integrity. You claimed there is a proven track record of this.
( ... )
I do object to people boycotting a source outright, based on hearsay, and no critical thinking
Based on the HISTORICAL RECORD ( as in: THEIR OWN ARTICLES they provided! ) of their declining accuracy and integrity, you cherry picking comedian-wannabe :P

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rojimboo: It is especially baffling, how people won't even read an article from a source, yet talk about learning about the issue from "both sides". Hell, even I don't dismiss Fox News or the Daily Caller outright, even though they both at the very least portray the issue one-dimensionally, and usually (especially the latter) are full of misinformation and propaganda. It is completely against my beliefs, which follow that everyone should keep learning, and practicing their critical thinking skills.
I don't know about you, but I have limited time in life, therefore I have to cherry pick my activities.
So I tend to prioritize higher on average accurate information source, over trying to give a benefit of a doubt to known piss poor ones.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but it doesn't mean you should reference it constantly.

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rojimboo: The rest of your post is full of you going line by line, being contrarian to every single sentence, whilst inserting CAPS for every third word.
It is certainly an interesting psychological phenomenon when people get so fixated on the WAY someone speaks, that they start prioritizing it over the actual CONTESTS of the message...

( I think I figured it out, it might have been a fault of a broken quote marker )
( part 3 will be sent in 10+ minutes or if someone posts in the meantime )

EDITS are due to issue debugging, as well as fixing some typos
Post edited March 19, 2024 by B1tF1ghter
( PART 3 / 3 )

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rojimboo: anonymous forum
kekw

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rojimboo: But I won't be doing the same "courtesy" to you. Be thankful!
bruh

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lostwolfe: hat's entirely on valve. it is not on sbi. the reason i say that is because valve could [if it wanted to] divorce forum posting/curatorship from game accessing. they have not, and here we are.
Curators and curator pages are LITERALLY quite a new thing on Steam. This is a fairly young feature.
And if you mean "separating game forums into some entirely-diff account required thing" then this will literally never happen.

Most of the content of that group also doesn't violate Steam Code of Conduct.
Definitely not the list itself, nor the group's name.

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lostwolfe: all valve would have to do is to say, "hey, these two things are separate. if you do something dumb on the forums, you lose your ability to post on the forums, but you still have access to your games.
This is literally the case and you didn't make your research before making a statement.

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lostwolfe: if you do something dumb in game
"Something dumb in game" is not grounds for a ban. Rest assured Valve aren't raging manchilds the likes of some private game server admins and they won't ban people for "something dumb".
There are specific condictions, such as eg using cheating software.

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lostwolfe: i SERIOUSLY doubt that sbi were involved in a harassment campaign
Dude, the posts are archived for historical sake.
And whatever they "SUPPOSEDLY meant" doesn't matter. What they DID does.

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lostwolfe: because valve are NOTORIOUSLY slow to move on some issues
It is certainly a special kind of irony to say this on a >> GOG << forum...
Also, rest assured, Valve will not remove content which is NOT violating their terms "just because SOMEONE doesn't like it".
( which btw is kinda contrary to GOG, historically speaking )

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lostwolfe: and may have attempted to ask valve to deal with the issue
May this may that. Proof or that didn't happen.

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lostwolfe: so they figured they'd put some more public pressure on valve via twitter
There are ways to put pressure on entities without inticing harrassment. SBI decided otherwise.

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lostwolfe: is that the right thing to do? maybe not.
buuuut, let me tell you, i kind of sympathize with them in a way
Perfect. Nice self expose! ^__^

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lostwolfe: sometimes, you get exasperated and you post that stuff on social media
Harrassment inticement and calls for mass false reports? NO. Certainly no sane people do that.

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lostwolfe: on the other hand: if we're going to talk about harassment campaigns, then the RESPONSE to sbi's issues were...swift and kind of immediate [and yes, basically awful], because if you want to talk about the one campaign, you should certainly bring up the other.
So let me get this straight:
There's this kid on the block who listed the things you were involved with ( that YOU yourself first bragged about publicly ).
You ( SBI ) called for your bully bros to try to bully the kid to leave the block and live elsewhere.
It didn't work, and the kid called his bros and did the reverse UNO card.

And now randos on the internet blidnly defend you ( SBI ) online.

This is comedy and you can't make this shit up.

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lostwolfe: sbi have been harassed, themselves. that's not much fun.
https://c.tenor.com/wIxFiobxxbIAAAAd/tenor.gif
Gee. Actions have consequences.
MAYBE SBI should've thought about it BEFORE they inticed a harrassment campaign :P

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lostwolfe: this is just skating RIGHT past the notion of sbi detected itself
You yourself already admitted you sympathize with SBI's methods. So now no matter what you do people will judge YOU through those words.
Remember that.

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lostwolfe: in and of itself, sbi detected /could/ read [and seem like] a harassment campaign of a sort. it was literally a curated list of games sbi worked on so that other people could steer clear of them for "reasons."
It's called 'free speech' sunshine. It neither breaks Steam TOS, nor CoC, nor does it consitute 'harrassment' in any SANE jurisdiction in the world.
It's really just in public service to have such a list ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Besides, this list merely mirrored PUBLIC INFORMATION, most ( all ? ) of which SBI themselves already provided.

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lostwolfe: urgh. i had to do some googling and now i feel gross.
If you feel disgusted by Alphabet ( the company behind Google ) for some reason, there are alternative search engines available.
Such as for EXAMPLE:
Qwant, DuckDuckGo, Bing, ...

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lostwolfe: sbi had/has every right to not want to be associated with sbi detected
They never were associated.

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lostwolfe: sbi had/has every right to ask valve to remove the group from it's service
Actually they don't. Your bias towards SBI doesn't change that.
If the group doesn't violate Steam rules, nor laws, it stays.

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lostwolfe: again: maybe sbi didn't do this in the right way, but i'd wager that this was just inexperience on their part
So what you are trying to say is:
we SHOULDN'T hire this consultant company because their employees are inexperienced?
Good to know! Your feedback is very valuable!

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lostwolfe: they simply didn't realize what sort of traction this issue would get and simply didn't realize how it would go nuclear
To quote a certain game character: " Stupidity is not a right ".

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lostwolfe: i understand there's a lot of you that simply don't see this the way i see it. that's totally ok and at some point, i hope you reflect on why you feel the way you do.
Deeep fried irony!

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lostwolfe: a belated edit: i'm going to time myself out of this conversation again.

until then, thanks for the conversation. be safe.
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UrzeTorgos: Now you are overdoing it.
Sealioning and concern trolling is skill to be done in moderation.
Hey, not every troll is self aware :P

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UrzeTorgos: Sealioning and concern trolling is skill to be done in moderation.
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ReynardFox: I don't know why some are engaging so intensely with this guy in this thread, his framing of the situation has been entirely and deliberately dishonest, not to mention patronizing.
You are correct, and seeing that there's almost no sane discussion left here, I am already with one foot outside of this thread.
It's only a matter of time, until I too, ditch it entirely.

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Gersen: There is curated list of all games using Denuvo, so that peoples could steer clear of them for "reasons.", same thing for game being limited at 30Fps or Games that were badly ported, etc... , So I guess all of them are also harassment campaigns and are "not OK" ?
It would certainly be in the best interest of "some individuals" for such info to never see light of day. And considering how exactly on the same page 'lostwolfe' seems to be, it begs a lot of questions about his motives, doesn't it ?
It's a new week, the weekend has passed, and I don't quite have time for this whole conversation anymore. Definitely not as much as I did during said weekend...

For you
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Littermate: ( ... )
you
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Sarang: ( ... )
you
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rojimboo: ( ... )
you
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lostwolfe: ( ... )
you
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kai2: ( ... )
you
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tremere110: ( ... )
you
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UrzeTorgos: ( ... )
you
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ReynardFox: ( ... )
you
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Gersen: ( ... )
and >> EVERYONE ELSE << interested in the SBI situation, I have some links to share below.

Here's the EXACT journalist who wrote the Kotaku article - and when I say exact, you are free to go to Kotaku's site, click the article's author name, go to their on-Kotaku-site bio, and see for yourselves it links to this EXACT Twitter profile.
https://twitter.com/alyssa_merc/status/1765465735822725277

I don't know about you, but if I would see some journalist spew such stuff publicly, I'd immediatelly label them "BIASED", "NOT NEUTRAL", and few other things.
I'd also be extremely cautious reading articles written by such given journalist, if I would even read them at all.

Here's a GDC ( Game Developers Conference ) talk of **THE SBI CEO**.
I encourage you all to watch this IN FULL and draw your own conclusions.
Now You See Me: Representation as Innovation
22,293 views 20 Oct 2021
https://www.youtube.com/@Gdconf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfMsxjWgUbI
29 minute video
the person talking on podium is THE CEO OF SBI btw...

official mirror:
https://gdcvault.com/play/1025717/Now-You-See-Me-Representation

official copy of the PDF from the presentation:
https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1026246/Now-You-See-Me-Representation

Take it all as you will.
I personally feel rather concerned by at least some of the words.
To not say, that some of the words uttered are downright INSULTIVE, and imo the CEO speaking is unworthy of being allowed into the gamedev world...
But this is just my own opinion.
You form your own conclusions...
high rated
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B1tF1ghter: Also, if you think I'm "crusading against wokeness", you must've been skipping my words and not paying attention.
I think I have made it abundantly clear by now that I couldn't give a FLYING F about what kind of character I play as, or who is in the game, AS LONG AS it makes SENSE, and is done NATURALLY - making SENSE in the STORY, and from the perspective of the LORE of the game's universum.
I DO have issue with ARTIFICIAL SOFTWARE SLOP, which doesn't make in-lore sense, and "someone is somewhere JUST BECAUSE 'equality numbers'".
I have issue with artificial bullshit. I don't have issues with "groups of people".
Maybe pay more attention to my words next time.
To many, what you just described is "wokeness". And in your own words, you are against what you described. By definition thus, aren't you therefore "anti-woke"? And crusading against this "wokeness"? It seems clearly to be the case.

And where has Sweet Baby Inc. violated the lore of the fiction of a game, without it making sense, with artificial bullshit? Surely you must have examples, seeing as that is your claim and primary reason to dismiss a news media source outright, without even reading it, and go on a tirade treating the forum as your soapbox about how eviiiil, inaccurate, misinformed, and without journalistic integrity Kotaku is? Do you actually have verifiable evidence that due to Sweet Baby Inc.'s involvement, for example a black female protagonist (the horror! in a purely fictitious setting) was inserted by them, against the lore of its world, to its detriment? Surely you must have examples of this, based on your already made strong claims?

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B1tF1ghter: Based on the HISTORICAL RECORD ( as in: THEIR OWN ARTICLES they provided! ) of their declining accuracy and integrity
Hey B1tF1ghter, what's your reasoning for dismissing and boycotting Kotaku?
"Because REASONS"
Yeah but what are your basing it on?
"REASONS"
Okayyy. But you mentioned the "historical record of their own articles' accuracy and integrity". Can you point to me where I could see that happening? Do you have any examples?
"NOPE, because REASONS"
Right. So did you find any factual inaccuracies in this Sweet Baby Inc. article that made you dismiss it?
"NOPE, I DIDN'T EVEN READ IT"
But why?
"Because REASONS"

And it took you ~147 000 words to reach that reasoned response to my questions. I am truly impressed!

What a stimulating discussion it has been with you, both sides must have learned a lot of new interesting things. Like how some people still use the word "kek" in 2024, or that it's appropriate to miss the entire point of a post, to only comment "bruh" at cherry picked words out of a person's sentences and paragraphs, whilst ignoring relevant questions in the topic directly posed at you. Not even difficult questions - just ones that seek to clarify what you had already claimed.

But as I found out, you based your claims on nothing. You pulled everything out of your ass, trusting alternative news sources blindly whilst boycotting everyone else as biased woke bullshit, due to them not aligning with your worldview. And that's sad. How can you ever develop your critical thinking skills if you never practice them, and are instead fed a lopsided view of things? Isn't that the road to succumbing to misinformation and propaganda?

I don't know why you ran away B1tF1ghter, screaming in CAPS whilst dodging and deflecting simple points and questions directed at you. But in case you come back, I do at least hope your IRL issues work out :)
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Syphon72: I have about 80 hours into GOT and never heard of this till now. lol
I hope you like it, I did. It's different enough from the main game so it doesn't feel redundant.
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rojimboo: But in case you come back, I do at least hope your IRL issues work out :)
I'm not dumb. I can recognise a thinly veiled insult, you know...

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rojimboo: I don't know why you ran away B1tF1ghter, screaming in CAPS whilst dodging and deflecting simple points and questions directed at you.
So you think, you BELIEVE, that you can rag on me to no end, attacking my persona, twisting my words, pulling some exotic unusual definitions of words, that don't align with academia dictionaries, but they surely fit your narrative; you bend reality, ignore common sense, ignore widely known facts, ignore my entire points, ignore my urls, ignore my arguments; you refrain from providing your own argumentation, and instead resort to personal attacks on ME, and "this guy hasn't responded yet, therefore everything he must have said must be incorrect" logic, and THEN you still expect me to 'happy go lucky' jump into this thread and happily respond to you when I have OTHER THINGS TO DO because I HAVE A LIFE?
Amazing.
You just can't make this shit up.

In NO WAY you are entitled to my responses. Furthermore, you cannot tell me how to organise MY time.
For literally any reason whatsoever I can refuse to talk to anyone on this forum for any reason. This is the internet, and an obscure forum at that.
I am not a terminally online brain rotten child. I am an adult, with adult responsibilities, and "adult kind of amount" of free time.
It is entirely up to me when ( IF ) I respond to anyone here.
And I am certainly not going to continue feeding random trolls.
The weekend is over, and I need to focus on other things, than ( cheaply ) entertaining myself with dense takes of ignorant people.

It would seem like you aren't interested in concise discussion and actual argumentation, and instead you would prefer to attack me personally.
Because of your actions, I am going to HIGHLY limit responding to you, if at all, going forward, and WHEN and IF I do that is entirely to my discretion.


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rojimboo: To many, what you just described is "wokeness". And in your own words, you are against what you described. By definition thus, aren't you therefore "anti-woke"? And crusading against this "wokeness"? It seems clearly to be the case.
I disagree with your assessment.

And I REPEAT ( what is it, THIRD time now? Forth? ), that I couldn't give a single s**t what skin color, ethnicity, nationality, etc, my playable-character is in a game I play. Same for NPCs. I DON'T CARE.
I do however care, to play games with believable stories, WELL WRITTEN stories, which make SENSE in the game's own lore. And for characters to MAKE SENSE within the story / lore.
If someone is shoved into the game, "JUST TO BE THERE" to serve as a pseudo-placeholder "EXAMPLE" of "representing" something or someone, and their presence doesn't make SENSE from LORE perspective, and they stick out like a sore - I have a problem with that.
It's NOT about any skin colors or anything else.
You can have a game full of nobody but exact same group of people, and then there's some character ( from said group ) who is LAZILY WRITTEN - I WILL have a problem with that.
Because my problem isn't with skin colors, nationalities, etc - it's with whether it makes SENSE or NOT in the LORE.
If it doesn't, I'm ABSOLUTELY going to point it out.

I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy lazily written books, or lazily written movies. Accordingly, I don't want to play lazily written games.
It's simply a waste of my time.

And if MOST of a game is made like this, I'm just not going to play such game.


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rojimboo: But you mentioned the "historical record of their own articles' accuracy and integrity". Can you point to me where I could see that happening?
Here:
https://kotaku.com/

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rojimboo: "NOPE, I DIDN'T EVEN READ IT"
These are YOUR words. Not mine. I have never said that.

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rojimboo: And it took you ~147 000 words to reach that reasoned response to my questions. I am truly impressed!
( ... )
Like how some people still use the word "kek" in 2024, or that it's appropriate to miss the entire point of a post, to only comment "bruh"
( ... )
CAPS
Attacking the FORM of speaking, is a domain of people who have lost argumentation points.
And attacking amount of text, is just pathetic - you aren't making ME look bad, just yourself.

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rojimboo: for example a black female protagonist (the horror!
This sounds like you are projecting tbh. I personally have zero problem with "a black female protagonist", and for ME this ISN'T a "horror".

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rojimboo: But as I found out, you based your claims on nothing. You pulled everything out of your ass, trusting alternative news sources blindly whilst boycotting everyone else as biased woke bullshit, due to them not aligning with your worldview. And that's sad. How can you ever develop your critical thinking skills if you never practice them, and are instead fed a lopsided view of things? Isn't that the road to succumbing to misinformation and propaganda?
This sounds even more like a projection...

...

I have provided a direct url to a post the very same "journalist" who wrote the related Kotaku article, has written publicly online with intent for the world to see.
You seem to have completely glanced over this fact, PERHAPS you haven't even checked the url.
The subject of the post in question isn't about "personal OPINION".
Racism, defines activities, and it applies to ANY race against ANY other race.
If you believe otherwise, you don't have a "different opinion", you are just IGNORANT.
And if you are doing this KNOWINGLY then you are BIASED.

The "journalist" in question did this knowingly, even more so considering that when she got called out, she doubled down on it.
Therefore she IS BIASED.
If I know a given journalist is BIASED, I am not going to have much faith, if any, in the accuracy of the works they put out.
I'm just going to seek a different source at that point.

I categorically dismiss Kotaku as a valid source of information when better sources are available.
You may decide to cover your eyes and plug your ears, but the fact is, they have been declining in quality, accuracy, and journalistic integrity in their activities, for past many years.
They have dropped way below the bar of still giving them the benefit of the doubt.
If there's an expectation of bias, sloppiness, and inaccuracy, it's not worth THE TIME to manually fact-check their articles by comparing with other sources.
It's just better to go to other, more "reliable on average" sources of information.


You are focusing on the wrong things. It doesn't matter all that much whether they HAVE or HAVEN'T pushed some of their agenda into projects.
If they negatively affect a project, that would be detrimental to the project, sure.

What is more important however, is that this company, who SUPPOSEDLY wants to be for equality, representation, "FAIRNESS" and whatnot - the words of their employees, their actions, in public, don't quite align with what the company separately spews in it's PR.
Their employees have been highly unprofessional. It's been public. And it HAS been archived too.
They have also called for false reporting, and "cancel culture"-like activities.
It's precisely because of what their employees did in public, that this company is getting backlash for, rightfully so, and IMO they should not be trusted to partake in ANY project - because they are CLEARLY UNPROFESSIONAL, arguably BIASED, and there's debatably conflict of interest here.

It could be easily argued, that because of the actions of their employees contrasting their internal PR, the company in question cannot be reasonably trusted to be making an UNbiased, NEUTRAL job.
Their ACTIONS differ from their PR.
Anyone with more than 2 braincells, would see a problem here.
high rated
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rojimboo: But in case you come back, I do at least hope your IRL issues work out :)
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B1tF1ghter: I'm not dumb. I can recognise a thinly veiled insult, you know...
Wow, how was that an insult, never mind thinly veiled? We may disagree on certain topics, but there's no need to be rude or even cruel!

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B1tF1ghter: In NO WAY you are entitled to my responses. Furthermore, you cannot tell me how to organise MY time.
For literally any reason whatsoever I can refuse to talk to anyone on this forum for any reason. This is the internet, and an obscure forum at that.
...
It is entirely up to me when ( IF ) I respond to anyone here.
I thought you were under a strict legal obligation and mandate to respond to video gaming forum comments. If one is not, then my life will drastically change (for the better).

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B1tF1ghter: It would seem like you aren't interested in concise discussion and actual argumentation
Bruh. Kek. Look who's talking. This was the first funny thing you've said in this entire thread full of your walls of text packed with inane, rambling drivel.

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B1tF1ghter: Because my problem isn't with skin colors, nationalities, etc - it's with whether it makes SENSE or NOT in the LORE.
Again, when has Sweet Baby Inc. inserted character, especially from marginalised groups of people, into games to its detriment, in so-called "lazy writing" techniques that don't fit their fictitious universes? Since you're boycotting them, surely you must have examples of them doing so, and evidence that they did so? That it was specifically Sweet Baby Inc. that resulted in the "forceful insertion" of characters that don't make sense? It would only make sense if such cases actually existed. Otherwise you're just scared of boogeymen and succumbed to jumping on a hate bandwagon and misinformation from dubious sources. Something incidentally you talk at length about.

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B1tF1ghter: Here:
https://kotaku.com/
Where exactly? What are you basing this on? Your fee-fee-feelings? How very reasonable of you. Or perhaps another forum user somewhere on the interwebz sounded really clever when they went full anti-woke, and told you to boycott them? I could totally see you doing that.

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rojimboo: "NOPE, I DIDN'T EVEN READ IT"
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B1tF1ghter: These are YOUR words. Not mine. I have never said that.
Everything you said, said that, no worries. Even now you don't deny it. Mind boggling how you can go on about something for so long of which you know so little about.

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B1tF1ghter: Attacking the FORM of speaking, is a domain of people who have lost argumentation points.
Ah yes, points in the contest. What's this contest about again? Losing face in the eyes of the video gaming community due to how weak your arguments are? How many points do I have again? How old are you again?

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B1tF1ghter: This sounds like you are projecting tbh. I personally have zero problem with "a black female protagonist", and for ME this ISN'T a "horror".
I'm now positive you don't actually know what projection means.

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B1tF1ghter: I have provided a direct url to a post the very same "journalist" who wrote the related Kotaku article, has written publicly online with intent for the world to see.
Wow. A personal Twitter account. That's conclusive evidence that the article is full of factual inaccuracies. Otherwise you'd be admitting to boycotting a source based on your worldview, something you said you don't do.


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B1tF1ghter: You may decide to cover your eyes and plug your ears
Pot. Kettle. Black.

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B1tF1ghter: but the fact is, they have been declining in quality, accuracy, and journalistic integrity in their activities, for past many years.
If this is a fact that you keep stating, then you'll surely have some examples of this or proof, or anything to back you up? Like I asked in my very opening post in this dreadful exchange.

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B1tF1ghter: It could be easily argued, that because of the actions of their employees contrasting their internal PR, the company in question cannot be reasonably trusted to be making an UNbiased, NEUTRAL job.
Why would you think a creative writer should be "unbiased and neutral"? How does that even work in fiction?

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B1tF1ghter: Their ACTIONS differ from their PR.
Oh you sweet summer child. That's the whole point of PR. If that's their main crime, then be prepared to boycott most companies in the world.

---

A note, as it's really a nasty tactic of yours. Initially, this wasn't much of an issue. Now, I don't know if it's just because of lack of time or you're annoyed at not being able to back up anything you say, but you have ramped up your cherry-picking ludicrously. To the point where you not only ignore direct simple pertinent queestions posed to you (which you did from the start) but you started to cherry-pick not just sentences out of paragraphs to which you only respond to (everyone kinda does that to some extent), ignoring the rest, pretending it's not there. But also, phrases or words out of sentences out of paragraphs! Only to make it easier for yourself to argue against it. Because apparently otherwise it's too difficult for you. This is a really nasty tactic, and indicates to me that you aren't discussing in good faith, as it distorts the truth and what was said initially.

If you don't want to have a reasonable discussion and are content with your circle-jerk bubble of anti-wokeness in a world full of misinformation where you are drip-fed alternative facts, then just say so.
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B1tF1ghter: Here:
https://kotaku.com/
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rojimboo: Where exactly? What are you basing this on? Your fee-fee-feelings? How very reasonable of you. Or perhaps another forum user somewhere on the interwebz sounded really clever when they went full anti-woke, and told you to boycott them? I could totally see you doing that.
See it all started in the wee year of 2014...... Some with functioning memories remember when "gaming journalists" showed their true colors. Not that they weren't full of shit beforehand, but this was the exact moment most people who actually played games and were into the hobby started considering "gaming journalist" the lowest form of life on this planet and considering gracing anything they spew out with even a speck of relevancy akin to lunacy.

If you want a refresher course, here you go. Probably the best I could find with a ton of links to various sources:
https://newdiscourses.com/2020/09/gamergate-gamers-first-stand-up-against-grievance-social-justice/

Some more reading, for the knowledge hungry reader:
https://archive.is/FOY9O
https://www.cinemablend.com/games/NotYourShield-Video-Shows-All-Different-Faces-Behind-GamerGate-67173.html

Not that anything anyone posts is going to change any minds, nobody should be that naive. I am willing to bet you can bombard me with articles and sources that will claim the exact opposite (most of the mainstream media coincidentally), so whatever....

Just know that the backlash is happening precisely because political BS got imported into the hobby by grifters in the guise of "gaming journalists" and most normal people who play games would prefer to not give a shit about it. But it keeps getting shoved in our face non-stop, more and more so in the recent years.

Further arguing would most likely be against the forum CoC, so I can only wish everyone good luck with their own research on the topic, should they wish to pursue it further. Nobody will do your research for you.

EDIT:
Oh look
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/kotaku-editor-in-chief-resigns-after-criticising-management/

Talk about convenient timing. Kotaku about to drop writing gaming news and reorienting on game guides...

:P
Post edited March 22, 2024 by idbeholdME
So is it the game woke or not?
Sony has a very good track record of woking up.
Post edited March 22, 2024 by NotMyGOG
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NotMyGOG: So is it the game woke or not?
Sony has a very good track record of woking up.
The Ragnarok sequel is (due to the involvement of Sweet Baby Inc), while this one apparently is not:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_god_of_war_with_a_50_discount_6d307/post2
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_god_of_war_with_a_50_discount_6d307/post27
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rojimboo: your circle-jerk bubble of anti-wokeness in a world full of misinformation where you are drip-fed alternative facts, then just say so.
You are free to misinterpret my words to no end. But it won't make you look any smarter.
People who are interested in the factual accuracy of your "anti-woke" accusations against me can easily back-track into my previous posts to read my exact words, devoid of any of your misinterpretations.

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rojimboo: Wow. A personal Twitter account.
Linked directly in the bio on the webpage of the employer.
This being a "personal" account doesn't change anything - people have been fired in all kinds of industries based on far lesser offences, on, YOU GUESSED IT, "personal / private time OUTSIDE of work hours".
And yes, people SHOULD be judged based on what they say publicly on platforms such as Twitter, if they are so eager to even insert their current employer on said "personal" account.

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rojimboo: That's conclusive evidence that the article is full of factual inaccuracies.
No. That, and NUMEROUS OTHER TWEETS, are evidence that this person is BIASED, NOT NEUTRAL, and therefore the chances of them projecting their own mind onto the articles they write, is way above average, and greatly above "zero".
Tweets such as that one, simply undermine public trust in such person.
Ofc excluding people who echochamber her views...

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rojimboo: Why would you think a creative writer should be "unbiased and neutral"? How does that even work in fiction?
So why even hire "a consultant on REAL WORLD subjects" if "it's ALL fiction"?
Oh, that's right, because it's not.
And the moment they want to put real-life stuff in, you know, an average person would "probably" want that stuff inserted to be accurate and neutral, not a biased take.

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rojimboo: A note, as it's really a nasty tactic of yours. Initially, this wasn't much of an issue. Now, I don't know if it's just because of lack of time or you're annoyed at not being able to back up anything you say, but you have ramped up your cherry-picking ludicrously. To the point where you not only ignore direct simple pertinent queestions posed to you (which you did from the start) but you started to cherry-pick not just sentences out of paragraphs to which you only respond to (everyone kinda does that to some extent), ignoring the rest, pretending it's not there. But also, phrases or words out of sentences out of paragraphs! Only to make it easier for yourself to argue against it. Because apparently otherwise it's too difficult for you. This is a really nasty tactic, and indicates to me that you aren't discussing in good faith, as it distorts the truth and what was said initially.
This is such a nonsense take ( but what else should I expect from a sensational troll ).
You will have a hard time finding people online who respond to EVERY SINGLE sentence out of a long message.

And yes, I lack time. If YOU'd have a life outsie of forums, perhaps you'd know what that means :P
Also, like I ALREADY said, I am heavily limiting responding to YOU.

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rojimboo: If you don't want to have a reasonable discussion
Go ahead and provide your own argumentation defending the actions of SBI on social media. Including but not limited to their very public, very archived, Twitter posts.
ALSO feel free to defend the CEO of SBI after their GDC talk ( assuming you even watched it ).

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rojimboo: Otherwise you'd be admitting to boycotting a source based on your worldview, something you said you don't do.
Do you honestly believe what she said in that EXACT post I linked "is about worldview"?
What, like, DO YOU agree with her take ?!

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B1tF1ghter: It would seem like you aren't interested in concise discussion and actual argumentation
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rojimboo: Bruh. Kek. Look who's talking.
Ah yes, hypocrisy, the internet classic...

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B1tF1ghter: This sounds like you are projecting tbh. I personally have zero problem with "a black female protagonist", and for ME this ISN'T a "horror".
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rojimboo: I'm now positive you don't actually know what projection means.
Get a dictionary.

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B1tF1ghter: Attacking the FORM of speaking, is a domain of people who have lost argumentation points.
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rojimboo: Ah yes, points in the contest. What's this contest about again? Losing face in the eyes of the video gaming community due to how weak your arguments are? How many points do I have again?
Get a life.

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rojimboo: How old are you again?
Grow up.

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idbeholdME: Nobody will do your research for you.
THIS. I don't know how " rojimboo "'s memory works - but certainly, when I read things, I memorize the MEANING and the gist of most important bits, that still retain overall information quality. I DON'T memorize things word for word.
And I certainly don't have the TIME in LIFE to go and make full blown EDITORIAL, fact checking the living s**t out of an article, because some troll on the internet demands it, and when I don't provide he resorts to slander and personal attacks, seemingly unaware of his clown behaviour.
I don't have TIME to go, and take every word Kotaku ever uttered and PROVE to " rojimboo " that their accuracy and neutrality have gone to the crapper.
Especially when I can clearly see that "somebody" is constantly WAITING for an EXCUSE to personally attack me even more. Even more so seeing how that somebody bends the reality to their own narrative at the moment; how he keeps misrepresenting my words, and putting words into my mouth I never spoke.
That somebody also making theories about what I do, did, or want, or my worldviews, based on things I HAVEN'T said.
From my POV, it is simply not worth it, to be a "volunteer journalist" just because some provocateur is death-gripping Kotaku's proverbial REDACTED, and cannot form argumentation of his own, unless it's personal attacks, then he's got plenty.
I AM NOT GETTING PAID FOR THIS S**T.
:P
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Yigdboz: The Ragnarok sequel is (due to the involvement of Sweet Baby Inc), while this one apparently is not.
So, they couldn't help themselves...again.
It was to be expected, sadly.
high rated
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Yigdboz: The Ragnarok sequel is (due to the involvement of Sweet Baby Inc), while this one apparently is not.
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NotMyGOG: So, they couldn't help themselves...again.
It was to be expected, sadly.
So let me get this straight: they made Thor fat and designed one fantasy creature (giantess) Angrboda as black person (couldn't find any more exaples) and this is woke? And now we should boycott the developers / designers? In strange world we living...