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Studying the anatomy of space demons.


<span class="bold">Doom 3: BFG Edition</span> is now available, DRM-free on GOG.com, with a 75% launch discount.
Back to reclaim its FPS throne, Doom 3 adds a strong dose of claustrophobic horror into the series' timeless cocktail of explosive action, horrific enemies, and ultra-violent massacre.

The BFG Edition is the game's remastered version, containing DOOM, DOOM II, DOOM 3, and DOOM 3: Resurrection of Evil, as well as The Lost Mission.

Feeling nostalgic or just awfully trigger-happy? Check out our <span class="bold">Bethesda shooters</span> sale.
The 75% discount will last until August 28, 1 PM UTC.
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Digital_CHE: I wonder if it is possible to do a similar thing with Quake 4.
Only if someone changes the released Doom 3 source code to support Quake IV or the official source code gets released. It's possible but very unlikely.
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qwixter: I have the original D3, and thought the BFG version was simply the same thing + some DLC. I guess there must a be real difference after reading a couple pages of liking the original better.
Read back further.

Not everyone thinks the original is better.

The only way you are going to know for sure is to try it for yourself.
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Digital_CHE: I wonder if it is possible to do a similar thing with Quake 4.
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mk47at: Only if someone changes the released Doom 3 source code to support Quake IV or the official source code gets released. It's possible but very unlikely.
Why is Quake 4's source code being released particularly unlikely? The release of the Arx Fatalis source code happened after Zenimax bought Arkane. Doom 3 BFG Edition's source code being released within a month of game's release also happened post-Zenimax acquisition of id Software.

Edit:

In addition the following id Software source code releases all happened post Zenimax acquisition:

1. The original Doom 3 + ROE
2. Return to Castle Wolfenstein
3. Enemy Territory
4. Doom Classic for iOS
5. Wolfenstein 3D for iOS
6. Wolfenstein 3D browser version
Post edited August 27, 2017 by Kristian
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Kristian: (…)
Because John Carmack (the driving force of the source releases) doesn't work at ID anymore and the game was developed by Raven. Remember the drama of the Heretic/Hexen source releases. It took almost a decade (Jan 1999 to Sep 2008) to get them rereleased under an usable license.

They had to release the iOS Wold3d source code because John Carmack based it on a third-party source port (GPL licensed).

Zenimax is already delaying the release of the Commander Keen source code. It was prepared for release several years ago by one employee… and we were sure that it would be a matter of days. I don't think that we will ever get that, either.

Obviously I would be very happy if they proved me wrong.

Edit: Some comments on twitter:

romero

mikerubits

eisnerguy1
Post edited August 27, 2017 by mk47at
"They had to release the iOS Wold3d source code because John Carmack based it on a third-party source port (GPL licensed)."

I know but Zenimax could have insisted that he didn't do that and this wasn't the case for some of the other releases. My point is merely that Zenimax doesn't appear to have a "no source code releases" policy towards its subsidiaries.

As far as Raven developing the game goes, RTCW and RTCW: ET also had external developers and Bethesda publishing Quake IV both here and on Steam would seem to provide a further indication that they have the neccesary rights.

Edit:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Hexen/Heretic relicensing A) Predated Zenimax acquiring id and B) Was done by Activision/Raven, right?
Post edited August 27, 2017 by Kristian
The one thing I remember about the BFG edition is that it had no subtitles, which is something I really like having in games.
There was a mod for the original Doom 3 IIRC, but that of course wasn't compatible with the BFG edition.
Not a great loss because I don't think it's a particularly good game, but still a shame.
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Digital_CHE: I wonder if it is possible to do a similar thing with Quake 4.
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mk47at: Only if someone changes the released Doom 3 source code to support Quake IV or the official source code gets released. It's possible but very unlikely.
And what about Return To Castle Wolfenstein? The source code is on github, but where is a safe Linux executable?
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Smannesman: The one thing I remember about the BFG edition is that it had no subtitles, which is something I really like having in games.
There was a mod for the original Doom 3 IIRC, but that of course wasn't compatible with the BFG edition.
Not a great loss because I don't think it's a particularly good game, but still a shame.
BFG Edition does not have subtitles afaik but the original also does not have any subtitles. The only mod available for Doom 3 which is offering subtitles afai is Doom3CC. This mod however does not work with the actual doom version without an addditional modfix and also it does not only add subtitles but also a quite big radar which I personally find rather annoying. So regarding subtitles both gamnes are flawed with BFG edition being more positive because at least it has multi-language support (still not helpful for people with hearing problems though).
Just a reminder, you can vote for the original Doom 3 here: https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/doom_3_original_1
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HenitoKisou: They are pills, not hearts, Doom2 has new kickass intermission screen, Map31 has these super-zombiemen. Also there's that Betray level. Many source ports including Doom Retro will detect and play BFG Edition wads just fine.

With Doom3 all these changes aren't forced but optional, you don't need use flashlight or ammo (not that I noticed, never found too much of it). I think there's more enemies in some levels, lighting feels more dynamic unlike original game. No hazmat or arcades is minor thing that didn't added a lot to gameplay. Performance is a lot better, I remember need to disable bump mapping and a lot of options down to just play retail without stuttering or lag, here it plays fine on shitty integrated graphics, except that porting to new engine raised RAM requirement to 3GB instead of 2GB because megatextures ragestyle, but it's still playable if you manually fiddle with settings and reduce that LOD.
-You are right about pills. Now it is going to drive me nuts about which censored id game had hearts on the health kits and what specific version as I'm 99% certain one of the classic id games had the crosses censored with a red heart.

-Intermission screen: Huh? Don't recall one. Can you be specific? Video on youtube you've seen with it? I checked a youtube playthrough but only checked the first intermission screen about Dead Simple and it had the usual brick background.

-Betray level: Its glitched. Using the exit reloads the level. Unless you use cheats. Having original XBOX version of Doom 3 and RoE that come with versions of Doom 1, 2 & Master Levels and having played PC ports of it Betray is NOTHING to be excited for anyway.

-Map 31: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snCRIl16ks
Pretty sure they are standard zombiemen.

-Source Ports: Indeed. I have no reason to play the censored version of Doom 2 though. I only ever launch the nerve.wad with source ports and I've only played through BFG versions of Doom 1 & 2 for the achievements.

-Doom 3: Not forced. If you have to use the flashlight you use the suit flashlight... period. The gameplay mechanic of a carried weapon flashlight is removed. There is no 'optional' to that. Same with the ammo. Why would you NOT pick it up?

-Doom 3: More enemies: Almost certain you are wrong. Plan on replaying some classic id titles in the not to distant future and I'll double check then. If you're so certain of it perhaps you can produce a youtube video showing more enemies?

-Doom 3: Shadows: They're better in old Doom 3, unless they patched BFG edition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPSVLI6lEoI
^ Seriously... the lighting and shadows are so much better in Doom 3 vanilla. It's oppressively dark.

Really, the only positive I can say for BFG Edition is that out of the box the textures look better and it supports modern operating systems, resolution and wide screen. Most of that can be achieved with tweaking or downloading mods though. BFG Edition is for console gamers or PC gamers who missed Doom 3 and want to see what the fuss was about... not for fans of Doom 3 has a horror shooter... with emphasis on horror.
Post edited August 27, 2017 by GreasyDogMeat
Oppressively dark is always nice, LOVE oppressively dark, but then why did the devs spend all that time designing and programing those really cool monsters if you can't even see the fucking things? :P

I'm not being silly here and I realize it is a tricky situation, at least for me. I was watching a horror film the other night, and it was a very dark horror film. The makers obviously had the idea that dark is scary, which it can be, but it was so damn dark it went from scary to "Uhhhh, what am I watching? For all I know that girl could be getting chased by one of the Care Bears."

Love dark, love shadow, but you have to give me something to work with. I'm not Daredevil; I can't figure out where someone is and what he looks like just from the sound of his breathing, and I can't be expected to be freaked out either; just confused, frustrated, and looking for another game to play.
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tinyE: Oppressively dark is always nice, LOVE oppressively dark, but then why did the devs spend all that time designing and programing those really cool monsters if you can't even see the fucking things? :P

I'm not being silly here and I realize it is a tricky situation, at least for me. I was watching a horror film the other night, and it was a very dark horror film. The makers obviously had the idea that dark is scary, which it can be, but it was so damn dark it went from scary to "Uhhhh, what am I watching? For all I know that girl could be getting chased by one of the Care Bears."

Love dark, love shadow, but you have to give me something to work with. I'm not Daredevil; I can't figure out where someone is and what he looks like just from the sound of his breathing, and I can't be expected to be freaked out either; just confused, frustrated, and looking for another game to play.
Just take a look at the video above during the scene with the two men at the table. You can clearly see that the documents under the lamp are missing all the texuture because of too much light. Imo it's easy to see that this is not the level of brightness that was intended by the devs. Regarding the monsters you cannot see. That simply is not true. You can see them but mostly just for a short moment when they do show under your flashlight or any other lightsource. Then you will have to switch to your weapon and go anywhere were you can shoot the monster and also see it. This makes a lot of tension and atmosphere.
who made the BFG?

i keep hearing, "not what the devs intended". Was it a totally different group? Did the original devs ever voice their ire over what was done?

Serious questions and with Marko's post I think I need to go back and rethink what rethought. :P
Even right on the beginning on medium difficulty I get repeatedly attacked with more monsters than ever happened, 5 instead of 3, 3 in two sequences that counts to 6, in later parts up to 10 split in 3 sections so definitely there's more.

Lighting is subjective thing but for me it looks better, the only thing I miss is lack of better shadows so that's probably why you consider lighting to be better in original, because when it got improved, shadows stayed on the same level making them worse.

Zombiemen on IDKFA level are on par of SSnazi but they lack their health and weapon, still their attack is almost the same speed so feels like they are turbo dudes. ;p

I have reason to play every new or different copy of IWAD from scratch. I did the same with DOS versions, Collector's Edition and the same will happen with BFG ones and new Nerve episode which is alone worth getting it for me. Similar thing is with F.E.A.R. I played that game countless of times but every new copy needs to be replayed from beginning to end.

You are that type of person that will deny any fun and optional content for other people even if you personally will never use it but existence of it alone is triggering and infuriating. Don't get it, don't use it if you don't need it, it's not hurting anyone.
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Post edited August 27, 2017 by HenitoKisou
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tinyE: who made the BFG?

i keep hearing, "not what the devs intended". Was it a totally different group? Did the original devs ever voice their ire over what was done?

Serious questions and with Marko's post I think I need to go back and rethink what rethought. :P
Maybe I should have used other wording. "What the devs originally intended". It seems as if the devs dropped some of their visions when creating the BFG edition. The things that have been changed imo show that they were simply listening to feedback and tried to appeal to a borader audience by making the game easier. I don't say thaht the BFG edition is a bad game per se but I don't think that it still shows what the devs wanted when they created Doom 3.
Post edited August 27, 2017 by MarkoH01