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General discussionRegional Locked Games on GOG(743 posts) (743 posts) 
(743 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2015
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mrkgnao: It has other options of following the law, such as:
a) Asking me to click on a checkbox that I am not living in Australia when I come to buy the game.
b) Not selling the game.
Wouldn't option b) promote and enforce censorship even more?
Posted February 26, 2015
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mrkgnao: That's a French court and a commercial dispute.

Who knows what another court would rule, or whether the Australian government would even want to take this to court.

But I am not in GOG's shoes, so it's easy for me to come up with "bell the cat" solutions.

I respect their decision and adapt myself to it.
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Grargar: Assuming they decided to implement your a) solution, they would be breaking their contract with the publisher, which is what also got them into trouble with Namco. How would Devolver Digital be moving from then on, is another matter.
When I suggest (a), I mean doing so after receiving the developer/publisher's silent approval. If they don't agree (and at least the developer sounds like he's pretty open to "inventive" solutions) that leaves option (b).
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mrkgnao: It has other options of following the law, such as:
a) Asking me to click on a checkbox that I am not living in Australia when I come to buy the game.
b) Not selling the game.
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PaterAlf: Wouldn't option b) promote and enforce censorship even more?
Not to me. I believe I discussed it in post #85.
Post edited February 26, 2015 by mrkgnao
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: Any reasonable person can see that GOG is not doing this to exploit its customers.
And no one is saying that, so why would you bring that up? Still, I hope they release a statement to explain their decision.
Posted February 26, 2015
this will set something off for sure other publishers and developers might demand regional limits taking this example which will lead to
1) either gog giving into it
2) loosing the chance to bring more games here

I cant imagine how much worse this can get in the future where gog galaxy client will be much popular than the old style method now.
Posted February 26, 2015
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mrkgnao: Not to me. I believe I discussed it in post #85.
Ok, but I don't think I follow your conclusion.

If all stores would stop selling games just because it is banned in one single country, it wouldn't lead to an outcry that would change the policy of that one country. It would just lead to several broken developers and publishers that would immediately stop making games with such content. Other developers would self-censor their games to not share the fate of the bankrupt ones.

So in my eyes not selling a game that is banned in one country would lead to even more censorship.
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: Any reasonable person can see that GOG is not doing this to exploit its customers.
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realkman666: And no one is saying that, so why would you bring that up? Still, I hope they release a statement to explain their decision.
So that we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. I felt it would be useful to keep things in perspective after reading some other comments here.

GOG's explained its decision in an edit to the pre-order thread.
Post edited February 26, 2015 by ForgottenTrope
Posted February 26, 2015
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realkman666: And no one is saying that, so why would you bring that up? Still, I hope they release a statement to explain their decision.
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ForgottenTrope: So that we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. I felt it would be useful to keep things in perspective after reading some other comments here.

GOG's explained its decision in an edit to the pre-order thread.
They'll have to be clearer than that regarding the implications of selling a game to an Australian.
Posted February 26, 2015
"Though we have no plans to officially challenge the ruling, we stand by our developers, their creative vision for the storyline, its characters and the game and look forward to delivering Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number to fans very soon.

- Devolver Digital and Dennaton Games" (http://www.devolverdigital.com/blog/view/hotline-miami-2-australian-classification)

And that is the real reason this game is restricted. Simply because the publisher, although acknowledging that the classification ruling was wrong, won't be bothered to fight it.

In turn, that means by restricting the title on GOG, GOG aren't preventing "AU censorship" from being forced on everyone, but are instead endorsing publisher decisions to not sell in certain regions. This is no different to a Japanese publisher refusing to sell in Japan simply because.

GOG may as well just go all the way now and start selling Steam keys.
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: So that we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. I felt it would be useful to keep things in perspective after reading some other comments here.

GOG's explained its decision in an edit to the pre-order thread.
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realkman666: They'll have to be clearer than that regarding the implications of selling a game to an Australian.
What else is there for them to say? The Australian government made it illegal to sell the game to Australians, and a legal business decided it would not break the law.


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bansama: "Though we have no plans to officially challenge the ruling, we stand by our developers, their creative vision for the storyline, its characters and the game and look forward to delivering Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number to fans very soon.

- Devolver Digital and Dennaton Games" (http://www.devolverdigital.com/blog/view/hotline-miami-2-australian-classification)

And that is the real reason this game is restricted. Simply because the publisher, although acknowledging that the classification ruling was wrong, won't be bothered to fight it.

In turn, that means by restricting the title on GOG, GOG aren't preventing "AU censorship" from being forced on everyone, but are instead endorsing publisher decisions to not sell in certain regions. This is no different to a Japanese publisher refusing to sell in Japan simply because.

GOG may as well just go all the way now and start selling Steam keys.
That's a bit of a jump. Keep in mind that the publisher makes less money by not being able to sell to Australians, so they wouldn't be enjoying this outcome. It's simply a massive imbalance of power. GOG also makes less money from not being able to sell the game to Australians. What would you expect them to do that's not illegal?
Posted February 26, 2015
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gunsynd: They can BAN what they want,we'll just go Pirating....
You could on the other hand just access the store using the IP from another country and purchase the game on your account. I don't see an issue with that, and you still support GOG.
Posted February 26, 2015
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Rixasha: I guess if you blatantly violate laws and get sued for it, you will lose and there will be consequences.
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mrkgnao: One does not fight wrong laws by capitulating to them. One at least attempts to resist them.
Not to sound like the devil's advocate, but the term "wrong" is very subjective. I am sure a lot of the Australian parents would disagree if their children would be able to purchase this without their consent, or even just receive it as a gift.

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mistermumbles: Yet they're still selling Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude, Postal 1 & 2, Phantasmagoria, and Risen to Australians. All of these are still banned in Australia. I call major bullshit. I also blame fucking Playstation for this hot mess because that's the reason they bothered to get the game classified in the first place.

There are plenty of indie games that probably would get banned in Australia if it wasn't for the fact that digital-only games on PC don't actually need classification ratings.
It is indeed bullshit, but you simply can't blame Playstation for allowing Devolver Digital to sell the game on their system. In the end, you could say you are blaming the dev for wanting to gain as much profit as possible by making the game available to a much wider audience.

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Lifthrasil: All this talk about Australia remindet me of a joke:

A man wants to move to Australia and is asked in the immigration office:
"Do you have any criminal record?"

He answers: "Oh, I didn't know, that that is STILL a requirement!"
Haha. Thank you for this! It genuinely made me laugh.
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: That's a bit of a jump. Keep in mind that the publisher makes less money by not being able to sell to Australians, so they wouldn't be enjoying this outcome. It's simply a massive imbalance of power. GOG also makes less money from not being able to sell the game to Australians. What would you expect them to do that's not illegal?
Not a jump at all. The publisher could have appealed. They made the decision not to. They actively chose not to make a profit from that market. They are just using censorship as an excuse. Japanese publishers refuse to sell in Japan all the time, not even with the excuse of censorship. This is just what companies do. They decide who they want profit off of. Likewise, GOG should have stuck to their principles and refused to sell the game at all. Or, as many have pointed out already, simply carried on selling it - as they are already happy to do so with other games banned in Australia.
Post edited February 26, 2015 by bansama
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: That's a bit of a jump. Keep in mind that the publisher makes less money by not being able to sell to Australians, so they wouldn't be enjoying this outcome. It's simply a massive imbalance of power. GOG also makes less money from not being able to sell the game to Australians. What would you expect them to do that's not illegal?
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bansama: Not a jump at all. The publisher could have appealed. They made the decision not to. They actively chose not to make a profit from that market. They are just using censorship as an excuse. Japanese publishers refuse to sell in Japan all the time, not even with the excuse of censorship. This is just what companies do. They decide who they want profit off of. Likewise, GOG should have stuck to their principles and refused to sell the game at all. Or, as many have pointed out already, simply carried on selling it - as they are already happy to do so with other games banned in Australia.
Why would a business choose to make less profit? They even went to all the trouble of applying for a rating, which they wouldn't need to do if they weren't planning on selling in Australia.

The Japanese publishers not selling in Japan thing sounds interesting. What do they get out of it? Is it some sort of monopoly thing, like they run all the arcades or something?
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: Why would a business choose to make less profit? They even went to all the trouble of applying for a rating, which they wouldn't need to do if they weren't planning on selling in Australia.

The Japanese publishers not selling in Japan thing sounds interesting. What do they get out of it? Is it some sort of monopoly thing, like they run all the arcades or something?
Ask the businesses that make that choice. Start with Ubisoft* who choose not to release the Prince of Persia DLC on the PC for "business reasons". Ask Nintendo of America who choose not to release already localised games for "business reasons". Pretty much all business make such choices. You'll have to ask them why -- and then hope they actually give you a truthful and meaningful answer.

What do Japanese publishers get out of not selling here? Again, ask them. Don't expect an answer though. They don't like to bother with such niceties as responding to feedback and requests from customers.

* While you're at it, why not ask Ubisoft why they're fucking around with the PC release of Far Cry 4 in Japan. Again, don't expect an answer. They won't answer the many other people who have been asking the same question.
Post edited February 26, 2015 by bansama
Posted February 26, 2015
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ForgottenTrope: Why would a business choose to make less profit? They even went to all the trouble of applying for a rating, which they wouldn't need to do if they weren't planning on selling in Australia.

The Japanese publishers not selling in Japan thing sounds interesting. What do they get out of it? Is it some sort of monopoly thing, like they run all the arcades or something?
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bansama: Ask the businesses that make that choice. Start with Ubisoft* who choose not to release the Prince of Persia DLC on the PC for "business reasons". Ask Nintendo of America who choose not to release already localised games for "business reasons". Pretty much all business make such choices. You'll have to ask them why -- and then hope they actually give you a truthful and meaningful answer.

What do Japanese publishers get out of not selling here? Again, ask them. Don't expect an answer though. They don't like to bother with such niceties as responding to feedback and requests from customers.

* While you're at it, why not ask Ubisoft why they're fucking around with the PC release of Far Cry 4 in Japan. Again, don't expect an answer. They won't answer the many other people who have been asking the same question.
In all those examples, the corporations' decisions appear to be profit-driven. That's why I think the Hotline Miami 2 issue is different. They seemed to have genuinely wanted to release the game in Australia but couldn't. That's why I would blame the Australian government as the decision-maker and not the publisher.

It sounds like the issues in Japan are corporate-driven. In Australia, some availability issues are corporate-driven, but many are due to government censorship. The circumstances in this case seems to be due to the latter. Would you really want a political matter in another country to determine what media you have access to in Japan?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionRegional Locked Games on GOG(743 posts) (743 posts) 
(743 posts)