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timppu: So are any of the games on the list on GOG, and does the GOG version have the same?
yes, Kerbal Space Program
iirc we even had some talk about it here in the forum when the last update and the new DLC arrived.
so far SQUAD and 2k seem to simply ignore any complaints in the official forum
Post edited June 15, 2018 by immi101
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Pheace: Is this much different from google/facebook tracking?
Yes, google/facebook tracking is restricted to your browsing. This additionally extends to your playing, probably comparable to using a Unity based game.
Post edited June 15, 2018 by Trilarion
Hmmmm... honestly not sure whether this breaks GDPR or not.

https://redshell.io/gamers

They don't take personal info, just computer fingerprint stuff (which I'm not sure is covered).

I'm too keen on the idea, but the fact they do give you a complete opt out on their website is pretty good considering. The opt out doesn't even require any info, so presumably it just logs a do not track against your computer's specific fingerprint. Admittedly that probably doesn't stop games sending back telemetry data, but I'm sure you can use a firewall to prevent that if you really want to.
Post edited June 15, 2018 by adaliabooks
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adaliabooks: Hmmmm... honestly not sure whether this breaks GDPR or not.
redshell talked about it in a blog post a while back
https://blog.redshell.io/gdpr-and-red-shell-57f9c03b5769

but the biggest issue is that in almost all cases this is integrated into game without informing the consumer about it.
Which makes the available opt-out rather useless.
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adaliabooks: Hmmmm... honestly not sure whether this breaks GDPR or not.
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immi101: redshell talked about it in a blog post a while back
https://blog.redshell.io/gdpr-and-red-shell-57f9c03b5769

but the biggest issue is that in almost all cases this is integrated into game without informing the consumer about it.
Which makes the available opt-out rather useless.
Depends on how you look at it. They're still presumably getting the info from the games (unless the games include their own opt out) but not storing it or doing anything with it.
Whether that is acceptable to people is down to their individual views.
low rated
It's data-mining for marketing purposes; a very small evil compared to a lot of the others
It's always been a known and accepted (at least for my generation)

The GOG and Valve client's themselves are 'all seeing eyes' and I'm pretty sure they work just like a hacker's shell

"Oh, bloody hell - Carnival's been in sitting in KAT all day long downloading forensic soft bait; did he loose his job again? This week's sale features everything he just downloaded to screw with his conscience."
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liquidsnakehpks: That is disturbing thanks for that info , i found a opt out link to red shell and opted out.

https://redshell.io/optout
This is only for the web tracking. Games will continue collecting and sending data. Apparently, as that very same page says, you have to ask by email (wtf?) how to disable it for each particular game.
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liquidsnakehpks: That is disturbing thanks for that info , i found a opt out link to red shell and opted out.

https://redshell.io/optout
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nepundo: This is only for the web tracking. Games will continue collecting and sending data. Apparently, as that very same page says, you have to ask by email (wtf?) how to disable it for each particular game.
Presumably they give you instructions on what to block with a firewall or which files to delete, which may be different for each game. So it may be easier to email that info on a case by case basis (assuming they don't actually get many requests) then have it somewhere accessible online.

Of course they probably want to make the process difficult and time consuming too, to put people off.
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immi101: redshell talked about it in a blog post a while back
https://blog.redshell.io/gdpr-and-red-shell-57f9c03b5769

but the biggest issue is that in almost all cases this is integrated into game without informing the consumer about it.
Which makes the available opt-out rather useless.
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adaliabooks: Depends on how you look at it. They're still presumably getting the info from the games (unless the games include their own opt out) but not storing it or doing anything with it.
Whether that is acceptable to people is down to their individual views.
how does that matter if the consumer does not even now any data tracking is happening in the first place ?
do you suggest that people should search the internet for every data mining company and opt-out as a precaution so that they are on the safe side if some game does implement data tracking without telling them ?
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adaliabooks: Depends on how you look at it. They're still presumably getting the info from the games (unless the games include their own opt out) but not storing it or doing anything with it.
Whether that is acceptable to people is down to their individual views.
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immi101: how does that matter if the consumer does not even now any data tracking is happening in the first place ?
do you suggest that people should search the internet for every data mining company and opt-out as a precaution so that they are on the safe side if some game does implement data tracking without telling them ?
But are they not informing the consumer? Or are they just informing them in the small print of a EULA?
I imagine if they are genuinely not informing people then that is illegal.

And in this day and age, if you are bothered by that kind of thing then yes you probably should... or have a firewall or similar to block connections.
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liquidsnakehpks: That is disturbing thanks for that info , i found a opt out link to red shell and opted out.
https://redshell.io/optout
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nepundo: This is only for the web tracking. Games will continue collecting and sending data. Apparently, as that very same page says, you have to ask by email (wtf?) how to disable it for each particular game.
Damn..
Btw, the site is down now.. I guess that Reddit killed it lol.
Post edited June 15, 2018 by phaolo
What dpes GOG say about this?
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immi101: how does that matter if the consumer does not even now any data tracking is happening in the first place ?
do you suggest that people should search the internet for every data mining company and opt-out as a precaution so that they are on the safe side if some game does implement data tracking without telling them ?
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adaliabooks: But are they not informing the consumer? Or are they just informing them in the small print of a EULA?
I imagine if they are genuinely not informing people then that is illegal.
at least with KSP there is no way to know about Redshell unless you track your outgoing connections and play detective to find out whats behind those.
The problem with the EULA is that it is formulated as broad and vague as possible, like "we may collect your data x,y and z...". And since it's one EULA which covers every game and service offered by 2k there is no way to know what data is actually collected when I buy game xyz in the store. It also does not name any involved 3rd party trackers.
On top of that, like every other EULA, it is written in that "beautiful" legal-speak which is simply painful to read and often hard to understand for us normal people.
As a tool to actually inform consumers, (most) EULAs are totally useless. They only exist to provide some fun for the involved lawyers.
Post edited June 15, 2018 by immi101
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StingingVelvet: Assuming this is true it's very common stuff that 95% of people don't care at all about or see as "private information," so it's not likely to change. It is what it is.
It's not private. At all. Not really. It is personal and you should have the choice to keep it private though. Once it's out, it's out. That's what sucks. They get your data, it's too late to fix the problem...
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adaliabooks: Hmmmm... honestly not sure whether this breaks GDPR or not.

https://redshell.io/gamers

They don't take personal info, just computer fingerprint stuff (which I'm not sure is covered).
"Personal data" is not just your name or ID number. E.g. IP address is also considered as personal data by GDPR, as far as I recall. Same for device finger printing, especially considering that nowadays many devices connected to the internet are quite personal. Think of your phone for example, and most likely you are also the only user of e.g. your laptop.

Pseudonymized data (data that doesn't directly reveal who you are, but can reveal it with additional information from somewhere else) is also considered as personal data. I presume that is why even dynamic IP addresses are considered as personal data: if I knew your current dynamic IP address, I wouldn't be able to outright say who you are, BUT if I somehow got that information from your ISP (ie, who was using that IP address at this exact time), then I would. Hence, it is personal data.

Also if I recall right, a name alone might not either be considered as personal data, if it is a very common name with no extra information. So, "John Smith" is not necessarily considered as personal data, but "John Smith who works at the company Tellus Labs" might well be.