Shadowstalker16: Did you forget you argued games companies should market more towards women because they're a larger demographic? That doesn't sound very equal to me. Shouldn't everyone be marketed to equally if the game developers don't want to be sexist?

PoppyAppletree: they completely turn off adult women.

Your concept of sexism also seems a bit lacking in depth, since it bears no relation to a situation which could ever have a place in reality.

Shadowstalker16: Yeah citation needed on that one. Not that I don't trust you speak on behalf of all adult women.

Treating people the same is my concept. What more is there to equality? Its literally the definition of feminism you linked.

PoppyAppletree: Sargon can't read.

PoppyAppletree: It's about responding to those differences in a way which regards all with equal dignity.

As for the stuff about things like T&A and over-the-top bloody violence tending to turn off adult women, that's a marketing issue, which in itself is separate from discussions about feminism (though feminism certainly bleeds into it). It's late here and I don't care to get into it just now. Some women love highly sexualised female characters or gory death scenes, but a lot of women see this stuff and understand that they're not the target demographic, and this isn't meant for them.

(Incidentally, my post never claimed to speak on behalf of all adult women. That's why I use phrases like "in general" and "tend"; it's about broad strokes, not absolutes.)

HereForTheBeer: I'm sure you know it's more of an action game and light on stats RPG. Though I did find that its sandbox-ish nature lets me be a good guy or a bad guy, and in some ways made it easier to play a role.

CharlesGrey: Proof of what? I agree that the entire rep system in its current form could use work

CharlesGrey: I get the impression they just wanted to throw the term "modern feminist" out there, to provoke a reaction from the people who were offended by Beamdog shoehorning modern day politics into a Medieval Fantasy Classic. ( There's been another thread on that very topic recently. )

CharlesGrey: OP is being downvoted for obvious trolling.

tinyE: When given the choice I ALWAYS go female.

PoppyAppletree: I believe you have misunderstood my comments. Adult women represent a very large gaming demographic. As such, if companies wish for this demographic to buy their products, they need to produce and market games which do not push away this demographic. In general, adult women have tended to be pushed away by games which pander (yes, pander) to teenage boys with pseudo-mature content in their games and adverts. Whilst these actions might increase sales amongst teenage boys (as well as some adult men), they completely turn off adult women. Adult women, incidentally, have far greater purchasing power than teenage boys, who generally do not have a meaningful income.

PoppyAppletree: THE BIGGEST GAMING DEMOGRAPHIC IS ADULT WOMEN.

Seriously, that's not pandering, that's just marketing to your audience.

Incidentally, kickass women protagonists are a power fantasy for women in the same way as Arnie or Duke Nukem are for men. They also have the side effect of being hot as hell even without skimpy clothing because confidence is sexy, which appeals to men as well; the ur-example I'd cite is Ripley from Alien. I think it's win-win.

Krimzon14: I bought Shadowrun Returns the other day and I think it could qualify, if you haven't played it yet.

I'm not super far into the game but all the interactions between myself and the other characters have me hooked. I like that the game let's me play as a sympathetic person towards people and their problems through the dialogue choices the game offers you. Any game that let's me make empathetic choices through dialogue is always a big plus for me, and I think a game that let's you show empathy towards people, especially marginalised/downtrodden people, counts towards showcasing feminist themes. The game is also wonderfully diverse so far (there's at least one LGBTQ character who sells you stuff) and I've enjoyed the interactions I've had with non-enemy characters. I bought the DLC earlier and I'm really itching to keep playing, haha.

The combat is also really nice, much nicer than Baldur's Gate, in my opinion. It's turn-based in the way that I wish Baldur's Gate was. It's an overhead perspective but it does so in a much more clear and useful way than Baldur's Gate does, and you can take as much time to decide what to do for each character actions. There's also no level up system in the traditional way. You just earn karma points and spend them on attribute/skill upgrades/unlocks. The character customisation at the start is a bit simple but there's a nice variety of classes and I think the attribute/skill upgrade system is fairly open-ended.

Hope this helps and that you find what you're looking for!

Vitek: It's not much of RPG as it became defined in PC games (mostly games where one improves their stats) but I would say it is much more of role-playing game than most so-called RPGs. ONe can assume many roles. They can make own story, pick own path and craft characters to their liking. Even more so with some nmods where people can be more scummy or moral than in vanilla game. So I'd say it should certainly considered RPG.