babark: I was never really interested in a debate. It wasn't my intention, because to me, such an activity in such an activity in such a place at such a time in such company is quite pointless to me.
If you're not here for debate then what are you here for? Looking at your posts, it seems you're here because of hurt ego, unable to let go and getting nothing out of it other than frustration.
I'm using this thread to improve on organizing and verbalizing my opinions, expressing them more concisely. I have a tendency to be too lengthy and I need to really work on that to improve efficiency. I still write walls and they're still too long. It would be better if you were a verbal sparring partner instead of a simple static punching bag that provides little more than a reflective surface. It's still training though, otherwise I wouldn't get anything out of it. But I'm getting less and less out of it with you because you make me repeat myself over and over, so I'm not getting any new challenges. Now you're going to call me a racist again because I compared you to a bag which contains sand.
babark: See, for example, I engaged with Klumpen before in some previous thread, responding to his bag of misquoted and mangled verses, but he didn't care, he just posted them again and asserted I have no response to them. If I respond to them again, that isn't going to change anything.
If you didn't effectively neutralize his arguments and he brings the same points again, the fault lies with you, not him.
I looked up the quotes (plus cross referenced various sources and translations) as I didn't know them all so I learned something from that.
babark: Perhaps you're not following me very well. You made the assertion that attacks on muslims simply because they're muslims is not racist. I was providing you with a ton of examples showing that in almost all cases, since religion is not always an outwardly showing trait of a person, racism ends up playing a huge part of islamophobia.
Big time logical fallacy here on your part. My point was that I did not make any racist attacks in this thread nor have I seen anyone else making any racist attacks in this thread.
If a dark skinned Muslim in France gets attacked and the motive of the perpetrator is proven to be racially driven, then it is a racist attack. If he just gets mugged, it's robbery and not racism. If he gets mugged because he is dark skinned, then it's both a robbery and a racist attack. If the victim gets attacked for being a Muslim, then it is a hate crime. If the victim gets attacked for being dark skinned -and- for being a Muslim, then it is both a racist attack and a hate crime. All racist attacks are hate crimes but not all hate crimes are racist attacks.
If you would claim that an attack on a brown Muslim (for being a Muslim) is automatically not only a hate crime but a racist attack and on the other hand don't equally lament racist attacks on white Muslims (for being Muslims) then you're being racist towards white Muslims. Just saying, since you're playing up racism as being a big part of your cherished
"Islamophobia" A nonsensical, illogical and ultimately powerless term, Pat Condell nicely explains why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ6FpabknY A couple quotes from the video:
"Muslims who find that their religion is viewed negatively should have the good grace to stop skulking behind this slanderous word"
"and every time we hear the word Islamophobia, the divide gets wider and the mistrust grows."
"that word is just so discredited and so provably statistically false that anyone still using it with a straight face merely shows the depth of their own dishonsty and their absolute contempt for the intelligence of everyone else"
babark: Hahahahahha...and here I thought you had relatively good reading comprehension. Why don't you go back to what I was referring to when you quoted what I said? Where YOU were the one who accused ME of having years of brainwashing and a defective education because you saw "Pakistan" as the location set under my name.
Your posts alone are sufficient reason to recognize brainwashing and defective education, the Pakistan tag just allows me to be fair enough and shift the burden of responsibility away from you and towards government and society at large. But now that you're a grownup with access to the internet and the opportunity to engage with people who have different ideas, the circumstances that would have excused you (or any of us in your shoes) as a child no longer apply, hence I can't take it easy on you. If I would, it would be racism of lower expectations.
babark: What should I have absorbed? Like I said before, and like I keep saying, I have absolutely zero interest in a religious debate, I just wished to correct misinformation that I saw.
Your wish is understandable, but the way you're going about it is not working, mainly because your replies are too disconnected from the statements you're trying to correct.
babark: Like I said to Brasas, you're not going to logic a racist out of being a racist, so engaging in that is pointless.
Since you have displayed the logic capacity of a punching bag, of course you're not going to logic anyone out of being a racist. And considering the fact that the racists you are supposedly fighting in this thread are imaginary, it is a pointless occupation indeed.
Anyway, here's an tounge-in-cheek instructional video on how to be a "racist", very relevant to this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY_DqzLGpCk babark: See, right there is your problem. The Blasphemy law in Pakistan was derived from english common law, not some Islamic ruling.
Here's a most important detail you missed in your argument:
The maximum punishment for blasphemy under the English laws ranged from one year to 10 years in jail, with or without a fine. No mention of life in prison or even death sentences there. That was later on added by Islamists using religious interpretations as justification. Which makes current blasphemy laws in Pakistan an Islamist thing, regardless of who first codified earlier laws.
And that's not even taking into account all the extrajudicial blasphemy related vigilante murders by unofficial Sharia courts and individual civilians in Pakistan which I guarantee you have nothing to do with any English laws but very much to do with superstition (aka religion) and/or personal vendettas using religion as a pretext to kill. Which, unfortunately, makes it a religious issue in both cases whether you like it or not.
In order to prevent religion from being a pretext - at least for state sanctioned punishments, state and religion need to be separated as much as possible, ideally 100%. That would take care of part of the problem but you would still have all the vigilante violence and societal suppression using religion as justification.
Who and what to blame to what exact amount is complicated but religion is the one common factor in the equation any way you look at it, therefor it makes no sense to categorically defend religion by sabotaging any necessary debate with deflections and get all worked up and throw around with claims of racism. It's entirely counter productive, and it's exactly what you are doing.
babark: But I digress. You call it "deflections" when I point out something is wrong, and then you're engaging in debates I'm not interested in. The answers to all your "legitimate concerns and criticisms" is available easily enough to you, I'm not arguing about them. We seem to be operating on different levels:
eg.
You're giving me statistics on black people committing more crime and asking why black people are more prone to criminal activity, I'm saying your essential question is misguided and wrong- I'm not debating crime statistics, and have no interest in doing so.
Oh really, where? Post a link if you're trying to "quote" people like that. It's not a successful distraction attempt otherwise.
A link is necessary so one can see exactly how you're twisting things around this time, might be quite educational.