I don't remember saying this.


Being able to recognise differences may be useful in handling reality, but that's not the same as pre-forming biases and making assumptions and acting out on them without proof.

Not giving a direct answer to a direct question is telling.
So, do you?

And putting words in my mouth is not?
Asking vague yet pointed questions in attempts to trap or gain internet debate points is telling too.

Perhaps "Islam does not consider it 'ok' to murder innocent people" is a useful enough reply to you?

You make this very hard, which is quite shocking regarding the tragedy which happened.
I want to have simple and undebatable answers.

Putting words in your mouth would mean there is no question mark and you just accused me of trying to gain internet debate points while I don't give a damn about stuff like this as most people know.

That's not an answer to the question, I asked for your opinion, "Islam's opinion" is debatable as it seems, yours is not
Should I take this as that in your opinion Islam's opinion is "no" and therefore yours too?

So, do you think terrorists have no right to call themselves muslims after killing the authors of Charlie Hebdo or anyone else who likes to make fun of or criticise every religion the same way?

Question marks? I'm sorry, but that's the silliest cop-out ever. So, are you saying you hate ALL blacks?

You asked me if I think their (who? Terrorists?) actions (what? terrorising?) are OK with my religion. Considering the vagueness of the question, I'm pretty sure I answered it fine.

Blacks? Dafuq?
Now he is either gone completely insane or tries to play the racism card or whatever this may mean. Maybe he means Gothics, who knows? It's both completely unrelated.

Well, I'm only some non-muslim and therefore inferior to this master race which worships a warmongering dude with 12 women whose fans are only allowed to marry 4. The youngest one "Aischa" was about 7-8 years old when he married her, what a great guy. So whatever, my moral standards are probably not high enough to understand all this and why nearly everybody in this community is so hesitant when it comes to clearly speaking out against their murdering brothers and their motives. Beats me.
I'm not even paying jizya, so I'm bad and worthless anyway.

For everyone who didn't get this:
The authors killed in the raid where not innocent due to Islam rules because they mocked their Führer, so he basically wrote, that he is fine with the killing of those after avoiding a real answer to my question. At least now it's clear where everyone here stands as it seems.

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
babark was simply trying to say that you were asking a loaded question.

Also - what the hell is going on in this thread? "#yesallmuslims"?

It's all relative man. it's all so fucking relative.

Actually, this is a useful example of speech repression in action. The other thread got locked and as result some of the discussion moved here. Water flows, yadah yadah, trying to catch water with a sieve yadah yadah... Given this derailing into specifically Islamic radicalism has inflamed the discussion (not much honestly, but still obviously so) I'm actually considering requesting thread lock. It was my thread afterall...


Taking the opportunity, I'm going to restate a couple comparisons between jihadism and gamergate, a couple concluding thoughts, and leave it at that. For context, babark himself was the one drawing similar comparisons in past threads, concluding how gamergate has an 'image problem'.

1 not all gamers do gamergate = not all Muslims do jihadism
2 whoever is threatening feminists are pigs = whoever is killing infidel blasphemers are (huge) pigs
3 feminist harassers are anonymous =/= jihad terrorists are crusaders for Islam
4 misogyny is not exclusive to gamers = terrorism is not exclusive to Muslims
5 gamer misogyny does not stand out from overall misogyny =/= Islamic terrorism does stand out from overall terrorism
6 anti gamergate propaganda is not factual =/= anti jihadist propaganda is factual
7 gamergate are gamers = jihadists are muslim
8 gamer culture which includes gamergate is not problematic ?=? Islamic culture which includes jihad is not problematic

Now that #8 is quite the question huh... and quite the taboo nowadays... taboos should be discussed openly and freely. Repression of offense causes prejudice to increase, invisibly at that.

Equivocation between political Islam and religious Islam is dishonest. Other abrahamic religions historically were similarly theocratic, nowadays Islam remains almost uniquely as monotheistic missionary religion without church/state separation. Islamic terrorism is therefore practically unique in being simultaneously religious and political. Until islam reforms in secular directions this will not change. However this need not be a problem as long the radical pigs are fought. Since us fighting them is 'insensitive' and inflammatory it would be desirable that moderate Muslims stand-up. The longer that takes the more jihadism will be conflated with all of Islam. This is not my preference, yet it is a likely unfortunate historic outcome.

Frankly, I've expected NAFALT (Not All Feminists Are Like That) more...
As for radicalism, I've seen this pervasive idea of GG's "hidden agenda". It's one thing to be a bigot based on inductive reasoning ("Some Xes are Y, therefore I'll expect all Xes to be Y until proven wrong"); it's another thing to tune out certain pars of reality and fixate on a narrow sample of "evil"... but it's a whole different category to reject the reality you face in favor of what you believe to be actually going on.
Hell - we've seen the above time and time again. "4chan gives money to charity? The charity must be evil, since 4chan is evil, and evil entities commit only evil acts." "Women disagree with us on what is good for women? They must either be actually evil men or confused about what's good for them." "People want to discuss ethics? Hurr durr, that's just a distraction we should ignore, since they actually want to harass women." "Over 10 000 people are on a list of most dangerous harassers? I guess there is much evil in the world, just like we said."
I haven't really seen too many aGGros theorizing that gamers are misguided, but overall acting out of good will. It's trivial for me to imagine the opposite: someone hears about a movement about harassment, says he's against the movement. Logical, though likely based on terrible, one-sided journalism.
In contrast - someone for GG will almost inevitably be thought to act out of deliberate malice. It's a discussion-ender. Once the pro-GG stance of an individual is revealed, as far as I can tell, in the eyes of most antis they become DEFINED by this allegiance. They cease to be a fellow human being and become "the enemy". THIS IS RADICALISM. I'd be glad to be mistaken, because I like seeing people TALKING and trying to understand their differences. You know - like civilized people allegedly do.
As far as I can tell - the source of all this is ideology. Nihilists are boring, but blind zealots are mostly sad to watch. I think I've mentioned blind zealots already, so I might as well leave things at this.

I'm sorry for the derailing Brasas, yes it's thanks to taboos and speech repression in the other thread which didn't even got the chance to get heated, I don't blame GoG for that at all, unfortunately it's still a cultural thing of our times.

Radicalism is shit and everybody who thinks it's ok to oppress opinions, enslave creatures or kill others for some ideological or religious purpose shall look for psychologial help and think about his lifestyle and perspective.
I try to be more moderate in many ways although sometimes I stumble because of great injustice and massive dishonesty.

Thanks, and don't mention it. GOG and derailing go hand in hand... I think we were getting a bit heated up, and obviously being passionate about something does come at a cost of increased emotional attachment to the topic, whihc may prevent empathy and different perspectives.

I think radicalism is both a ideological and an emotional approach, in fact I'd say its power over us comes precisely from how balanced it is between those two spheres. That said, assumption of bad faith plays a part, as does denial of counter evidence, yes. Both of these can be subconscious, hence I try to tone down my emotional reaction to people that exemplify either. Keyword being try. And I'm sure I fall into those same errors myself.

I already answered this in a previous post.
As a side note, Christianity is seen by many Muslims as the main competitor to Islam, hence the "latching onto" makes sense to state a point. A restaurant owner in Aswan Egypt who solicited me about religion despite me telling him that I'm not interested the least bit said the following: "The Jews have book, It's ok book. Then Christians made book. It's newer and better book. But then Muslims have book, it's newest and best book, and last book, from God."
He literally said that, and I've had quite a few RL conversations that went pretty much the same way. I told him I only believe in what I see, and I see food. And want to eat that food (which I paid him for) in peace, and had no intention to ever convert to any religion and that the very suggestion offends me. He eventually got the idea and left me alone.
Of all the religious groups that have solicited *cough* I mean tried to save my sorry soul most in real life, here's the top 3:
1.) Islam
2.) Jehovah's Witnesses
3.) LDS Church (Latter Day Saints movement)

I haven't seen any Hindus recently massacre 2000 civilians in Nigeria or burn 45 churches like the peaceful people in Niger just did, so Hinduism currently doesn't concern me much, sorry...

After trying to explain logical fallacy to you 3 times in a row in previous posts, I'm afraid there is no hope any time soon.

If my kuffar opinion isn't good enough, perhaps you can find it in your heart to listen to some fellow Muslims who of course aren't allowed or willing to imply that Islam is wrong in any way but are at least capable of seeing fault in their fellow believers. One must take note that having self-critical views like the following ones is nothing out of the ordinary for Westerners but having such critical views is seen as controversial or downright sensational on TV stations from Muslim countries. I found these interviews very interesting and these people do a much better job to de-demonize Muslims than you do, considering your way of discussing only reinforces negative stereotypes. Anyway, please do watch these videos as they are quite enlightening and could help you overcome false pride and perhaps even open your eyes towards progress. Take this as an arrogant underhanded method of pushing my evil confirmation bias on you via Trojan Horse method, or see it as constructive criticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Xve4O4rF0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XuPWvsbxfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36W7MKdE9Cw - she's wrong about Switzerland having the strongest defense army but other than that she has good points. Note the scary music...apparently making common sense is shockingly controversial in some parts of the world. For example, I was shocked to find out that Miss Lebanon publicly apologized to her fans for being on the same photo as Miss Israel. Seriously? Not even kindergarten is like that. Such things are really sad. Anyway, this Lebanese singer has common sense at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGsvzhrp1M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8coZIHX2mg0

In case you think people in the West generally dislike Muslims, the ones being interviewed in these videos would be seen in a very positive way by pretty much anyone here. It's unfortunate that many Westerners only get to see turds like Anjem Choudary on TV, who is a nasty and as radical an Islamist as you can get before turning into a hands on full blown (no pun intended) terrorist.

But sometimes even Islamists are right about things, here's an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pk2-vr4sSw

He's inaccurate with his numbers though, the GDP of Spain is "only" as big as the top 3 Arab countries combined (Saudi Arabia, UAE and Egypt), not bigger than all 22 Arab countries, Spain's GDP is bigger than the combined GDP of ranks 4-22 of Arab countries though.