Pretty much :P

I love Paris, I love France, I love European moral and ideal identity, + I feel bloody sad and outraged for the victims, but also: seeing the solidarity to France and affirmation of our value of freedom of ideas, of press feels most comforting.

Any European, atheist or believer, is in any case influenced by the enlightenment - that was in itself based on critical spirit of reformation.

I dare think "the wrong with me" is just my disapproving of your blanket "Muslims=extremist" in your view, mainly. And really, I even think you would quite love it to be so, really!

So did any of "them" ever do anything to "you" actually?


Ps: this does not say that the eventual lack of free theological debate and emancipation by women would not be a personal concern for me with Islam - but I also think this is hardly an issue with the typical islamophobe, eh! ;-)

Why did you write more than this anyway?
It was crystal clear that you saw red when someone criticised Islam in general and that you would put me in this box, just like you have put me in the box "Christian", probably only because I'm German. You like your prejudices and fast assumptions, right?

You still didn't answer why you thought I'm a christian and a bigot.
And have you read the quran or are you talking about it without?

No, I don't "would love it to be so", you don't know me at all so stop pretending.
And to your other false presumption: No, I do not only know all this from far away, I'll just quote myself here from the other thread and leave you to your boxes, you'll have plenty enough for dozens of more prejudices.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/terrosrist_attack_at_charlie_hebdo_office/post123

Finally a black ribbon with google.ch - in solidarity, as it should have been quite some earlier (two days or so), methinks, but better late than never, eh!

Meanwhile, rejoice away - I trust the strongly motivated do not particularly need the legality, eh!

From this and the other thread i can only shake my head. Racism and hate is taught to us, not something we inherently have. Children early on have no idea of racism, but pick it up from their parents, media, etc. So many times the kids are bewildered while the adult community is filled with hate over something that honestly makes no sense. Same thing with the Bigotry of religion is it's force fed to children at a young age, and they just accept it because they don't know better and accept it blindly as truth because if they don't they were punished and would go to hell, and need to be baptized to get their foot into heaven, or whatever other beliefs they have.

And honestly, shrugging off some beliefs that were forced on you at a young age is hard. A few years ago i came to my own conclusions why i clutched a belief i didn't believe in, and came to the ultimate conclusion: To make my parents happy. Because of that i lied to myself for the better part of 20 years.

If we really want racism to go away, government, education and parents have to be removed from the equation, or everyone has to swallow all of their racism pride and teach their children not to hate, not to want to hate, not to believe in something unless they see it with their own two eyes, and make it with their own two hands, then one day when the children are the adults the cycle will be broken.

And that's my 2 cents.

Italics are yours. Mine was a "as-matter-of-fact" statement.

Regarding "Christian" & "bigot" topic - "Klumpen" appears to me as "native" German - which also implies your value-base is that of European enlightenment - or Christian, even if you do not believe.

So why this particular zeal about Islamic sacred texts, before Old or New Testament? Trust me, Jesus had quite some challenging ideas about love of our neighbours, and such like.


Edit: reply double posted.

No, I don't trust you and I know this already since I most likely studied way more religious texts than you including different translations of the bible.

PS: My value-base is relatively far away from my heritage.
You should stop assuming to much.

Strong words, weak argumentation.
The Charlie Hebdo illustrators treated everyone with equal disrespect but what do you do? You immediately point out that the Bible is just as bad when anyone criticizes the Quran but when someone criticizes the Bible, we aren't going to ever hear from you that the Quran is just as bad. All we are going to hear is the chirping of crickets, just like in that anti-McDonalds Burger King TV ad. In other words, complete silence because you don't want to be seen as an "Islamophobe". Every time someone tries to pull the "Islamophobe" card, I laugh them out of the room. Do you think another card in the politically correct deck makes any impression? (sexist card, racist card, etc etc) It's only politically correct people who are afraid of being shown such cards, anyone who's just discussing topics rationally isn't affected or impressed in the least bit. Because when one has real arguments, half-hearted shaming attempts by politically correct folks aren't particularly scary.

Btw, I wonder how many of the people doing the #JeSuisCharlie thing right now (on Twitter etc) are willing to take a clear stand against the actual problem - radical Islamism - and how many are just bandwagon activists/hipsters and are going to forget about the whole thing after a couple days when it's no longer "hip". Actually, I don't wonder who is who as one can tell from 10 miles who understands the issues at hand and who just does a little sanitized solidarity candle holding vigil stuff. Or makes a post saying they respect the caricaturists but forgets to mention they condemn radical Islamism.

You might also put some 12.99 USD or such like to Michael Tomasello ("Why we cooperate") - US original in case you have doubts about source criticality etc.;-)

Nor you, nor I, are quire so young, as the test subjects of Tomasello's study that I do think show that the human intrinsic nature is kindly disposed for the main ... but afterwards, there is the social cohesion, or pack mentality, that pushes us to conform.

This picture of essentially a child murdered made me cry as much as reading about Charlie Hebdo;

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maywand_District_murders#mediaviewer/File:Young_Afghan_farmer_boy_murdered_by_US_soldiers.jpg]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maywand_District_murders#mediaviewer/File:Young_Afghan_farmer_boy_murdered_by_US_soldiers.jpg[/url]

(Further reading here, if you wish: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-kill-team-20110327)

These oversees military personnel did not see this boy as a citizen, as a person, as a son, brother of someone....

I shake my head too, but also, rode to Basel airport today to buy French printed media for about 15 Euros (Deutch - ich arbeite daran, lol). Did something.

I wonder more and more sometimes if being half autistic is a curse or a blessing. I can't feel emotions most of the time, and yet sadness grips my heart and wrenches it from me, be it from a joke that i can't remember that is tugged on, emotional cords, or if it's music so beautiful i can't play a game because of it and break out into tears.

Two halves, half a heart that feels nothing so i can survive... so i can do what i need to. And half a heart that bleeds and is so very innocent and can't cope with cries and suffering, real or imagined... I begin to wonder when the world became my own personal hell to torment me.

In many ways this is why i stopped watching movies and anime and reading books, sticking with what's familiar rather than what's exciting and new... I don't think my heart can withstand a pet dying in my arms again... Or anyone i cared about...

Your lack of trust is pretty okei, actually - but your selective "demand answer - "reply to" - "quote" is less so. The intolerant can demand a degree of tolerance from the tolerant - as long as they do not require too many unfair privileges in terms of engagement.

I do not perso mind your value base, nor do I think reading any volume of religious texts matters, unless there be unkindness or harshness drawn out of it (when opposite should be true).

Cabu, Wolinski, Tignous, Charb, Honoré (+3) died for plurality of opinions, for the authoritative and protective powers of the state (2 policemen), freedom of press (12). I admire them, and feel sad yet empowered at the same time.

Just state what you feel, fair n square.

:-D for the cheek of this,

+ :'( for the substance of child killing.

But maybe your "non-autistic half" should only engage discussions that it feels like engaging to - and leave the shaking of head to the ones that do not involve much feeling or opinion - that other half, you know.

I love this one in particular::

http://www.rts.ch/galeries/6438121-hommage-des-dessinateurs-de-presse-apres-l-attaque-contre-charlie-hebdo.html?image=6438146

"What's this little weapon, which hurt us so much?"


And here some more:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/201501080090839_ul.shtml


I meanwhile think your question is wrong.

Should it not be: how many of us would die to defend fundamental freedoms, such as freedom of press?

I do not think the twelve of Charlie Hebdo massacre wanted specifically to sacrifice their impassioned lives for this - but so they did, in practice.

And an issue of Charlie will come out next Wed printed at 1 million copies (vs 30k normal) - to honour the fallen, and more.

Of course, because all life and death are banal. Thinking otherwise is human arrogance. We are dust. Tragic really.

That's not what you are asking though, right? You just want to use their deaths as a symbol of something 'bigger' than them. Something that matters to you, like non violence and multiculturalism. And yet you suspect I'm your 'enemy'.

As you may know others have different agendas, but will be perfectly happy to raise the same bloody flag as you. For violence and nationalism. My understanding is mosques in France have already been shot at, grenaded and bombed. Can you say that reaction is banal?

I can.

Whoever did that is as radical as the pigs that raided Charlie Hebdo. And they may both (the Islamist commandos certainly) share something with you; this refusal to see reality, instead considering the reflections of individual ego over it. Objectivity, always objectivity... we keep coming back to lack of objectivity... in gaming journalism of course ;)

Humor aside, here's the serious point. The more I live and talk with others, the more I see my liberal / libertarian political preferences as a reflection of my belief human life and human individuals are banal, and so fragile. But what else is there? I hated emotionally to read existentialists, Camus was physically painful, but well... not everything one hates is false or wrong... and my life and property is just a little nugget of shit, but it's all I got. It's worth fighting for, and I'll fight for yours as well because I'm no better than you. Humility and banality =/= human worth being zero.

May that give you comfort, sometimes it does me.

Can you say that's banal?

I can. I am banal.

We all are. Who the hell do you think you are?


Ps: since you are in Europe, I'm assuming your Christian heritage, as you may have noticed I alluded to 'scripture' re "from dust to dust" as well Lucifer's fall from heaven. Arrogance is teologically a huge 'problem'. Would you agree?