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General discussionQUESTION: CD Projekt. (77 posts)(77 posts)
(77 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 24, 2017
Goody!
Posted August 24, 2017
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Alaric.us: Umm... no?

Very few. Same reason there are so few Linux games: because the demand is LOW. Linux most certainly has its uses, but the desktop market is not something it is very competitive in.

I don't suppose you are very well familiar with software development?

I would like to (once again) remind everyone that I use Linux too.
Just so that I don't get accused of hating Linux, its users, Trovalds personally, etc.
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richlind33: Please name the retail chains that sell PC's without Windows.

Re software development, would you say that it's just as easy to develop software for Windows as it is for open-source platforms?
I remember that one store with a giant silver apple above the doors.

In the states we have a place called Best Buy that sells some chrome os computers.

Linux will rule the world one day. Skynet will use it.

Edot: autocorrupt changed best to destroyed.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by Tallima
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Please name the retail chains that sell PC's without Windows.
I think I saw some at Microcenter some years ago. But yes, I completely agree, there are very few of them. And the reason for that is the lack of demand. If people wanted Linux machines, stores would sell Linux machines. This isn't a conspiracy, it's just business. Would be quite silly to carry stuff that nobody wants to buy, no?

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richlind33: Re software development, would you say that it's just as easy to develop software for Windows as it is for open-source platforms?
The principles of programming are obviously the same. What we are talking about is the availability of good tooling, trained developers, and potential customers.

If you and I decided to open a game development studio tomorrow, we would find that it's cheaper to develop for the platform, which has been the target for most game development in the past. This isn't because the platform itself is necessarily amazing, but because so much has been done already. We wouldn't need to blaze a new trail, we'd ride down an already built highway.

We would also find it easier to hire developers who have experience in developing games for that prevalent platform. Once again this is simply because with so much development there are more people involved in it and so the talent pool is larger.

Lastly, with a platform the users of which take up 96% of the users of the most popular distribution service, we would find it substantially easier to reach potential customers and recoup our losses (and make money too.) This wouldn't be because we are evil, support monopolies, want to resurrect Hitler, etc. It's purely a business decision.

So no, I don't think that Windows is the best OS ever. I really don't think that. I also don't think that MacOS or Linux are. No OS is the best, they all have their uses, their strong sides and their weak sides. I think the key is knowing when to use which. It is really, honestly WEIRD for me when people turn this into a religious war.
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: How certain can you be that Windows is an ideal gaming platform?

And surely you can see that the ramifications extend far beyond the gaming industry. Right?
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Alaric.us: TL:DR - something being overwhelmingly popular is not necessarily a bad thing. And in particular Windows being prevalent doesn't actually stifle game developers' creativity at all.
Popularity is only as good as the extent to which it is informed, and I think we both know very well how that shakes out in reality.

You're implying that there *is* a monopoly, but that it exists because there is only marginal demand for alternatives, and that's logically absurd. The most you could reasonably assert is that it's a possibility -- and an unlikely one at that.
Posted August 24, 2017
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tinyE: Goody!
Thanks for laughs! :)
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Please name the retail chains that sell PC's without Windows.
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Alaric.us: I think I saw some at Microcenter some years ago. But yes, I completely agree, there are very few of them. And the reason for that is the lack of demand. If people wanted Linux machines, stores would sell Linux machines. This isn't a conspiracy, it's just business. Would be quite silly to carry stuff that nobody wants to buy, no?

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richlind33: Re software development, would you say that it's just as easy to develop software for Windows as it is for open-source platforms?
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Alaric.us: The principles of programming are obviously the same. What we are talking about is the availability of good tooling, trained developers, and potential customers.

If you and I decided to open a game development studio tomorrow, we would find that it's cheaper to develop for the platform, which has been the target for most game development in the past. This isn't because the platform itself is necessarily amazing, but because so much has been done already. We wouldn't need to blaze a new trail, we'd ride down an already built highway.

We would also find it easier to hire developers who have experience in developing games for that prevalent platform. Once again this is simply because with so much development there are more people involved in it and so the talent pool is larger.

Lastly, with a platform the users of which take up 96% of the users of the most popular distribution service, we would find it substantially easier to reach potential customers and recoup our losses (and make money too.) This wouldn't be because we are evil, support monopolies, want to resurrect Hitler, etc. It's purely a business decision.

So no, I don't think that Windows is the best OS ever. I really don't think that. I also don't think that MacOS or Linux are. No OS is the best, they all have their uses, their strong sides and their weak sides. I think the key is knowing when to use which. It is really, honestly WEIRD for me when people turn this into a religious war.
Business plans are almost by definition a conspiracy, and it's a fact that MS has engaged in heavy-handed tactics over the years -- I'll provide cites if you insist. It's also a fact that linux distros are significantly cheaper than Windows. So I think it's far more likely that the unavailability of linux PC's at retail chains is due to an unwillingness to market them because it's almost a certainty that MS would respond by raising the cost of OEM licenses.

I'll rephrase the question I asked you: does MS provide developers enough source code to produce optimal software?
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Please name the retail chains that sell PC's without Windows.

Re software development, would you say that it's just as easy to develop software for Windows as it is for open-source platforms?
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Tallima: I remember that one store with a giant silver apple above the doors.

In the states we have a place called Best Buy that sells some chrome os computers.

Linux will rule the world one day. Skynet will use it.

Edot: autocorrupt changed best to destroyed.
Chrome PC's without Windows?

I guess that makes sense, Google being another monopolistic monolith. Yay Google. o.O
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: You're implying that there *is* a monopoly, but that it exists because there is only marginal demand for alternatives, and that's logically absurd. The most you could reasonably assert is that it's a possibility -- and an unlikely one at that.
Reading comprehension. I am not only not implying there isn't a monopoly, I actually openly stated that. The word monopoly, as many words do, actually has a definition. The current situation does not fit that definition. Therefore...

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richlind33: So then...
* Business plans are almost by definition a conspiracy
* You'll provide cites
* MS would raise prices in response to a demand for free Linux
* MS needs to provide developers with source code
You know... I would like to apologize to you. Please forgive me for wasting your time. You are, of course, right and I am, therefore, inevitably wrong. I clearly lost this argument and would like to formally concede.

So that my apology is not just words, I would like to offer to contribute to your endeavors of dismantling the evil Microsoft (and/or Google) conspiracy of business plans and promote the widespread acceptance of Linux as a desktop. If you open a development studio that focuses on Linux, or if you open a store that sells Linux desktops please do let me know. I will then see how I can help.

Have a most wonderful, delightful, magnificent day! (And thank you once again!) <3
Post edited August 24, 2017 by Alaric.us
Posted August 24, 2017
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USERNAME:richlind33#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:49#Q&_^Q&Q#You're implying that there *is* a monopoly, but that it exists because there is only marginal demand for alternatives, and that's logically absurd. The most you could reasonably assert is that it's a possibility -- and an unlikely one at that.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:49#Q&_^Q&Q#
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USERNAME:richlind33#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:51#Q&_^Q&Q#So then...
* Business plans are almost by definition a conspiracy
* You'll provide cites
* MS would raise prices in response to a demand for free Linux
* MS needs to provide developers with source code#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:51#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Uh oh, looks like someone thinks a standard dictionary definition is applicable to a term that is clearly being used in an economic context, which suggests that they don't grasp practical economics because absolute monopolies are *extremely* rare.

It's more practical definition is: having control of a commodity or service to an extent that market prices can be manipulated, and this is the standard that applies in gov't regulation pertaining to monopolies and trusts -- a good example of which is the breakup of Standard Oil, which was not an absolute monopoly.

Re conspiracy, the term doesn't necessarily reference illegality, and can be applied to people acting together secretively for dubious or harmful purposes. So yes, business plans are frequently conspiratorial in nature, and may or may not be illegal.

Also, please stop altering my quotes. And for the record, I don't run linux. Windows only. K?
Post edited August 24, 2017 by richlind33
Posted August 24, 2017
low rated
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Johnathanamz: No never...
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richlind33: I think you're full of shit and here's why: I see it as an opportunity to stand up and say fuck you to a monopoly that should never have been tolerated in the first place, because monopolies are antithetical to free market economics, primarily because they stifle innovation by minimizing competition.
Windows and DirectX never stifled innovation.

MicroSoft developed DirectX in the 1990's after there was nGlide and OpenGL, because nGlide while good and OpenGL at the time didn't even offer all of the good things for video games that DirectX now has like better documentation and sound libraries and all that other software.

Fact is OpenGL sucks and still sucks and has a lot of cruft. Yes MicroSoft started not doing much improvements to DirectX for years after at least 2004 or so only until AMD revealed Mantle.

Vulkan though also still sucks compared to DirectX, there is like two video game developers at least one person from the Khronos group as well who said that Vulkan will not provide better results than DirectX 12, that it will be better to develop PC versions of video games to have DirectX 12 support then port them to Vulkan.

A Khronos group member said that PC versions of video games should be developed with DirectX 12 first can you believe it? A Khronos group member.

You can read about it on some article Liamedawe wrote on his gamingonlinux.com website. I think it was in late 2015 or one day in 2016.

What can also be said for OpenGL even though OpenGL is still being supported along side Vulkan and OpenGL 5 is going to be released in 2018 or so, OpenGL still has a lot of cruft most AAA video game development companies and AAA video game publishing companies don't want to deal with.

Reading the store page on Steam for a lot of video games released for sale and releasing for sale at least over 65+ PC versions of video games have DirectX 12 support.

PC versions of video games that have Vulkan support on both Windows and on Linux is like nine PC versions of video games only.

Here are the PC versions of video games on PC on both Windows and on Linux that have Vulkan support.

Ballistic Overkill on Linux

Dota 2 on both Windows and on Linux.

DOOM on Windows

HITMAN on Linux

Mad Max on Linux

Like three Serious Sam video games on Linux.

And The Talos Principle on Linux

All AAA PC versions of video games published by Electronic Arts (EA) on PC will use DirectX 11 and DirectX 12 from now on.

All AAA PC versions of video games published by Ubisoft now or from now on PC will use DirectX 11 and DirectX 12.
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: I think you're full of shit and here's why: I see it as an opportunity to stand up and say fuck you to a monopoly that should never have been tolerated in the first place, because monopolies are antithetical to free market economics, primarily because they stifle innovation by minimizing competition.
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Johnathanamz: Windows and DirectX never stifled innovation.

MicroSoft developed DirectX in the 1990's after there was nGlide and OpenGL, because nGlide while good and OpenGL at the time didn't even offer all of the good things for video games that DirectX now has like better documentation and sound libraries and all that other software....
No, Windows doesn't stifle innovation; Microsoft, however, does. The question is, when did MS become dominant enough that it negatively impacted the development of competitive alternatives to the Windows platform.

Microsoft has certainly made some significant contributions re innovation, but those contributions are overshadowed by it's well-documented efforts to suppress competition, and I think it's overall impact has been quite negative. And quite frankly, MS should be paying people to use it's platform because it's primary purpose is to access personal information for pecuniary benefit.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by richlind33
Posted August 24, 2017
While I am not a fan of linux, (negative personal experience)

I do believe that if linux gamers want a game, they should have it, choice is good.

So yes linux gamers should have equal access to the games they want to

so if linux gamers want witcher 3 they should get it.

fuck the market. or percents,
you still make money, just make a linux and a windows version combine the profits and bam stop worrying.
Post edited August 24, 2017 by Lord_Kane
Posted August 24, 2017
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Johnathanamz: A Khronos group member said that PC versions of video games should be developed with DirectX 12 first can you believe it? A Khronos group member.

You can read about it on some article Liamedawe wrote on his gamingonlinux.com website. I think it was in late 2015 or one day in 2016.
Source link, please, or it didn't happen.
What you are doing right now is spreading FUD, my green friend. :-)
Posted August 24, 2017
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richlind33: Doesn't Microsoft have a controlling interest in Apple?
They sold what little they had in 2003:

https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/20/what-ever-became-of-microsofts-150-million-investment-in-apple/
Posted August 24, 2017
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Lord_Kane: While I am not a fan of linux, (negative personal experience)

I do believe that if linux gamers want a game, they should have it, choice is good.

So yes linux gamers should have equal access to the games they want to

so if linux gamers want witcher 3 they should get it.

fuck the market. or percents,
you still make money, just make a linux and a windows version combine the profits and bam stop worrying.
The only reason they are around is the lack of real competition in AAA gaming space and they work tirelessly to keep it that way. They know that windows 10 is a bust but hey; no competition. Steave Ballmer called Linux a cancer but what that really means is that his own company just become one at that time.

I just wish devs embraced Linux more for it is truly friendly and open source PC operating system. (:

Edit: I don't recall using Linux in my high school. Oh and this video:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.windows.com/business/2016/04/14/kent-school-district-starts-rolling-out-windows-10-to-24000-devices/amp/
Post edited August 24, 2017 by NovumZ
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionQUESTION: CD Projekt. (77 posts)(77 posts)
(77 posts)