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General discussionPotentially serious Steam account issues... (179 posts)(179 posts)
(179 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 26, 2015
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Elmofongo: Don't joke about this man. I am serious can I log into Steam to play my games already? I won't even LOOK at the Steam store.
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HereForTheBeer: My son, you have taken the first step on the path to DRM-Free Enlightenment. Though your journey has just begun, you shall face many trials of your willpower. The fruits of the destination will make it all worthwhile.
Do you know who your taking too boy or old man?

To prove I am more for GOG than Steam my current wishlist of GOG games is 30+ while my Steam wishlist is 9.
Posted December 26, 2015
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HereForTheBeer: My son, you have taken the first step on the path to DRM-Free Enlightenment. Though your journey has just begun, you shall face many trials of your willpower. The fruits of the destination will make it all worthwhile.
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Elmofongo: Do you know who your taking too boy or old man?

To prove I am more for GOG than Steam my current wishlist of GOG games is 30+ while my Steam wishlist is 9.
It's a joke, not necessarily directed entirely at you, but instead more at the general comment and its 'solution'. You don't need to prove anything to me - I'm just some random bozo making comments on others' comments.

Have a happy gaming weekend, and I hope the stuff gets sorted out so you can get back to those games. : )
Posted December 26, 2015
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PookaMustard: Except that logging in is MANDATORY for Steam games. If I can't login to GOG Galaxy to play Freedom Planet, no problem because GOG accounts are NOT MANDATORY to play the game, let alone Galaxy. Therefore, if I logged out during this outrage while I was supposedly still on Steam, I wouldn't be able to play games unless I utilized the horrible offline mode, something I wouldn't trust to actually run offline.
If you downloaded it before - I'll get to that below. It's mandatory to login for downloading on GOG / Galaxy, too. If you for whatever reason (time-, bandwith-, network-issues) didn't, you're in the same spot.
As for playing, yes, sry, offline mode. If you don't trust it, that's a completely different beast but you can always just pull the plug on your side of the network.

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PookaMustard: And you can lose access to downloads, that is not far-fetched. Steam can go down for a great while without being able to download anything. You can lose access to your Steam account, be it through forgetting your login details or being changed and stolen by a scammer. It could be because of Steam going down the land of no return.
Once more, same for every digital distributor. Replace Steam with GOG, Uplay, Origin, iTunes, whatever - all come with the same problems.

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PookaMustard: The point is, with HDDs and DVDs, it is your responsibility to keep them safe and sound (which I do with my burned DVDs), but with downloads, your whole reliance is on the distributor being alive and still having access to them.
Sure. I'm not claiming DRM-free isn't the better solution. But I wouldn't want to backup all of my Steam games and the point will come, where that applies to GOG too. Simple reason being, that the effort to do so (time / hardware) doesn't justify it at all.
If this solution works for you, by all means go for it. I'm not claiming you shouldn't. But assuming all newer AAA games would be released on GOG too, each with dozens of GB to backup... how's that a long-term solution for everyone? It certainly isn't for me, sry.

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Siannah: However, if you want to go discuss maximum credible accident scenarios, assume the same for GOG and your DVDs lost / unreadable - everything else is just not valid.
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PookaMustard: Again, with GOG, if the service died, but I happened to have the backups on DVDs, no problem. I can install them and play them for as long as I wish. But when Steam goes down, I can't reinstall or repair the games as many time as I want. And that's all for something that's not in your control. You can't take good care of Steam itself so it'll never go down, as you're not Valve. However YOU can take good care of your own DVDs in order to make them long-lived.
If the service died, if you happen to have backups, if they work. You create a scenario that works in your favor and refuse the possibility that something along the way may go wrong for you. Again, if going with a worst case scenario, do it for both sides or not at all. Everything else throws your comparison as pointless out of the window.
Posted December 26, 2015
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Siannah: If you downloaded it before - I'll get to that below. It's mandatory to login for downloading on GOG / Galaxy, too. If you for whatever reason (time-, bandwith-, network-issues) didn't, you're in the same spot.
As for playing, yes, sry, offline mode. If you don't trust it, that's a completely different beast but you can always just pull the plug on your side of the network.
Its mandatory to DOWNLOAD only, not to PLAY. A mandatory download is fine, as long as I can go off the line without having to be online too in order to play. And sorry, offline mode just can't be trusted, for various broken reasons.

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Siannah: If the service died, if you happen to have backups, if they work. You create a scenario that works in your favor and refuse the possibility that something along the way may go wrong for you. Again, if going with a worst case scenario, do it for both sides or not at all. Everything else throws your comparison as pointless out of the window.
Keep in mind that this scenario 'in my favor', while true, is still hurdled with the trouble of taking good care of your DVDs (should be nothing bigger than store them in a bag or a suitable location that you won't forget easily and keep unwanted hands out of them) if you want them to live long. However, the point is, it is YOUR will that you want to keep your data alive, not a corporation's will. It is all up to you to take care of it, and you have the full responsibility of keeping them alive (or killing them off if you wish so). You're not sharing it with a more powerful party whose decisions are automatically applied to the smaller party (you), and that's where I come from.

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Siannah: Once more, same for every digital distributor. Replace Steam with GOG, Uplay, Origin, iTunes, whatever - all come with the same problems.
If you just so happen that you were on GOG, or if what I heard is true, that iTunes MP3s are not DRM'd, losing access to the downloads would be the only problem. Any other service you mentioned though, if they go down or you lose access to them, you lose access to not just them but your bought and DOWNLOADED material. That's like Wal-Mart shutting down and the HDTV you bought from them vanishing from existence (or continue playing until a certain date). But with GOG, that's like RadioShack for example vanishing and the tablet you bought from them continuing to run independent.

If this solution works for you, by all means go for it. I'm not claiming you shouldn't. But assuming all newer AAA games would be released on GOG too, each with dozens of GB to backup... how's that a long-term solution for everyone? It certainly isn't for me, sry.
This is when backup harddisks come into play, to play nice with those big games. I agree that it isn't a really accessible long-term solution, but at least I gain the benefits that A) I don't have to redownload the whole game again (think GTA V), and B) they'll be in my possession as long as the hard disk is okay. So the lack of ease of this is simply a tradeoff for securing your own game data without third party reliance.
Post edited December 26, 2015 by PookaMustard
Posted December 26, 2015
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PookaMustard: snip
We've gone in circles long enough. I answered to security issues / concerns about the recent happenings on Steam. I have no intention, to turn this into the (at least) 357. "Steam is teh evil / no it's not" discussion around here. So I'm bailing out.
Posted December 26, 2015
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PookaMustard: snip
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Siannah: We've gone in circles long enough. I answered to security issues / concerns about the recent happenings on Steam. I have no intention, to turn this into the (at least) 357. "Steam is teh evil / no it's not" discussion around here. So I'm bailing out.
Well then. I myself want to take a break from that too. Thank you for being civil in your opinions though.
Posted December 26, 2015
Steam's not evil, and quite frankly, not that bad, it's just that as soon as you FORCE somebody to do something, it's human nature to automatically hate it. It can otherwise be a fairly useful tool for chatting, organizing games, etc.
Post edited December 26, 2015 by zeogold
Posted December 26, 2015
TotalBiscuit made a long response about the whole situation:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so3l3c
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so3l6a

Read those in 1st order
Posted December 26, 2015
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zeogold: Steam's not evil, and quite frankly, not that bad, it's just that as soon as you FORCE somebody to do something, it's human nature to automatically hate it. It can otherwise be a fairly useful tool for chatting, organizing games, etc.
Well said. Maybe I wouldn't have hated it from the start if most PC games would not suddenly have tried to force me to use it. Instead of obeying, I stopped buying PC games for some years until I got to know about the DRM free alternatives.

Atm I'm just wary of GoG-Galaxy, but you can guess what my stance towards it would be, if it becomes mandatory for anything that is not related to online multiplayer.

Forcing people to do something always raises a big fat "enemy" sign for me.
Post edited December 26, 2015 by Klumpen0815
Posted December 26, 2015
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zeogold: Steam's not evil, and quite frankly, not that bad, it's just that as soon as you FORCE somebody to do something, it's human nature to automatically hate it. It can otherwise be a fairly useful tool for chatting, organizing games, etc.
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Klumpen0815: Well said. Maybe I wouldn't have hated it from the start if most PC games would not suddenly have tried to force me to use it. Instead of obeying, I stopped buying PC games for some years until I got to know about the DRM free alternatives.

Atm I'm just wary of GoG-Galaxy, but you can guess what my stance towards it would be, if it becomes mandatory for anything that is not related to online multiplayer.

Forcing people to do something always raises a big fat "enemy" sign for me.
I was actually going to mention Galaxy, but feared the backlash which might happen if I mentioned it in the midst of all these GOG fanboys. Seeing as somebody else is here to back me up, I'll go ahead and do so:

I was here when Galaxy came out, and there was no huge backlash over it. Nobody seems to complain about it and most people who use it seem to enjoy it. However, couldn't it be used for the same thing? When I first saw it, I was almost ready to abandon the site, saying "Great, they're about to become Steam.", but thankfully they haven't gone down that road with it yet. But take a moment to consider the similarities:
- both companies started out making games
- both companies branched out to build a site to sell games
- both companies now have remarkably similar devices which you can play/store the games you buy and use a bunch of nifty tools on
The main differences so far are that:
- Galaxy isn't mandatory, Steam is
- GOG is committed to DRM-free games, Steam is used specifically FOR DRM, making it much easier for companies to implement nowadays.
Now, I don't know whether Galaxy tracks your game collection or not (I haven't used it), but all that needs to happen is for CD Projekt to release a game which can only be played using Galaxy, or otherwise contains Galaxy-exclusive features, and suddenly, we're on the same path as Steam.
Posted December 26, 2015
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zeogold: [...]
- both companies started out making games
[...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Projekt#Games_development

Read the history part.
Posted December 26, 2015
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zeogold: - both companies started out making games
GOG made a game? o0
Posted December 26, 2015
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zeogold: - both companies started out making games
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fishbaits: GOG made a game? o0
GoG is part of CD Project Red and they made the Witcher series.
Posted December 26, 2015
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zeogold: [...]
- both companies started out making games
[...]
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amok: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Projekt#Games_development

Read the history part.
Well, ok, they didn't technically start out making games from the very beginning, but I meant more in terms of they did so right before they opened up GOG.
Posted December 26, 2015
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Siannah: Yes you can keep playing GOG games, as long as you already downloaded the game before. Apparently, you're not in a position where the amount of drivespace needed to do so, is so big that it sooner or later becomes just not feasible anymore. Others have reached that point.
Not feasible? Are you needlessly exaggerating or woefully uninformed? Hard drives are extremely inexpensive nowadays. I can buy 5TB Toshiba drives for less than $120, 8TB Western Digital drives for less than $245 and 4 bay USB 3.0 enclosures for less than $100 on Amazon. I have 2 Ubuntu Raspberry Pis setup at separate locations running 16TB NAS RAIDs. I don't know about you, but I don't foresee myself filling up 16TB with GOG installers anytime soon...

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PookaMustard: Oh and before you say "Steam will be DRM-free on its death", just don't forget that installing registries pain-free and whatnot, or restoring backups using Steam after that won't work.
This is a very good point, if a company becomes insolvent to the point that they are bought out, go into receivership or declare bankruptcy whoever promised to remove the DRM are most likely not going to be in the position to do so. In fact Shamus Young has already explained it much more eloquently than I could have.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionPotentially serious Steam account issues... (179 posts)(179 posts)
(179 posts)