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General discussionPossible class-action lawsuit for cdpr(83 posts)(83 posts)
(83 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 20, 2020
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AB2012: Absolutely wrong. 3rd parties get involved all the time in these quality standards disputes. You cannot seriously be that naive that if Sony sets 30fps guidelines / 20fps minimum whilst Adam Kicinsk says "well 9-15fps is my personal authoritative definition of a first-person game that runs "very good, surprisingly good" but we also never said that when we asked you for money", and the game gets booted from Sony store due to a flood of refunds for abnormally poor performance, any lawyer who launches a lawsuit will say "Well Gersen of GOG.com said that Adam's personal feelings are the ultimate authority so that's that. Case closed".
I never said that, I just said that if you want to accuse somebody of lying you have to prove that they are purposely lying and that "surprisingly well" is a vague enough statement that it will be extremely hard to prove it.

There is something very different between saying to investor "give us money and we guarantee that the game will run a 30 FPS on PS4" and saying, when asked the question in some random Q&A section, "the game is running surprising well". At the end of the day neither of us is a lawyer, it's just my personal opinion on the matter.

EDIT : On the other side if, when asking money to the investors, CDPR mentioned that it would be sold on all three major platforms (PC, PS4, XBox) then having it being removed from two of them "could" (again not a lawyer) constitute an argument for a lawsuit.

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BrianSim: LOL. You're right. The reason for removal had nothing to do with the game running at 5-15fps whilst looking like this. No sir, instead the REAL reason Sony removed it was because the Sony CEO caught Adam banging his wife... :-D
My question was simply if it was a fact (i.e. with some official statement) or just speculation ? you seems to confirm it was indeed simply speculation.

As mentioned there are games with much worse performances/bugs being sold on the store that were never removed, if I had to speculate I would guess the reason Sony removed the game (in case it's not at CDPR request) is probably simply because the amount of refund request was giving extra works not to mention the bad press, rather than them giving a damn about its performance, but again, unless we have a official statement this is purely speculation.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by Gersen
Posted December 20, 2020
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ZFR: This is a translation of the post:

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,
My name is Mikołaj Orzechowski, I am a Warsaw attorney at law and a CDPR investor. In connection with recent events - and in particular the suspension of the sale of the product CYBERPUNK 2077, we are currently analyzing, together with the law firm's team, the grounds for filing a class action together with filing a notification of the possibility of committing a crime under article 286 of the Civil Code. - misleading in order to obtain a financial benefit. If you are interested in participating in the above, please contact us at (emailremoved)@4bizzz.com. The contact is absolutely free of charge, my entry is to verify whether to undertake the above activities by yourself or whether there are more people in a situation similar to mine. We are also preparing material, together with one of the Internet portals, about the rights of investors, in case of such a bright, inconsistent with the facts, the attitude of the board - see information about the fact that the game is ready, taking into account several delays in the release, as well as statements in which the said board admits that it did not exercise due diligence in developing the game for the PS4 platform.

I kindly inform you that I will not provide any comments in this thread. Any entries will remain unanswered.

Thank you very much,
with respect,
attorney Mikołaj Orzechowski
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ZFR: This, written as a post on a website forum, is the only source for this.
Keeping his mouth closed, not overblowing the case, this is not some PR stunt. This guy thinks he's onto something.

EDIT: One thing, though, is that the memes of the bugs have been amazing. I'm glad i skipped out on this one, 'cause my rig can't handle it and i would've waited years just to find this out.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by kohlrak
Posted December 20, 2020
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ZFR: This is a translation of the post:

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,
My name is Mikołaj Orzechowski, I am a Warsaw attorney at law and a CDPR investor. In connection with recent events - and in particular the suspension of the sale of the product CYBERPUNK 2077, we are currently analyzing, together with the law firm's team, the grounds for filing a class action together with filing a notification of the possibility of committing a crime under article 286 of the Civil Code. - misleading in order to obtain a financial benefit. If you are interested in participating in the above, please contact us at (emailremoved)@4bizzz.com. The contact is absolutely free of charge, my entry is to verify whether to undertake the above activities by yourself or whether there are more people in a situation similar to mine. We are also preparing material, together with one of the Internet portals, about the rights of investors, in case of such a bright, inconsistent with the facts, the attitude of the board - see information about the fact that the game is ready, taking into account several delays in the release, as well as statements in which the said board admits that it did not exercise due diligence in developing the game for the PS4 platform.

I kindly inform you that I will not provide any comments in this thread. Any entries will remain unanswered.

Thank you very much,
with respect,
attorney Mikołaj Orzechowski
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ZFR: This, written as a post on a website forum, is the only source for this.
So basically some no name lawyer thinks he could make it big and brags about it on the Internet.

And as always people blow it up for no reason than just to fuel the flames of drama.
Posted December 20, 2020
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Gersen: My question was simply if it was a fact (i.e. with some official statement) or just speculation?
Sony removed it due to the volume of refunds. And that was caused by obviously bad and universally slammed performance issues. They're hardly unrelated. The real on topic issue though (and answer to your original reply to me of "if I expect a game to run at 2 FPS on my computer and it runs at 10 FPS then I can say that it runs "surprisingly well"), is this:-

November : CDPR CEO was boasting "surprisingly good, very good performance" for the PS4
https://www.dualshockers.com/cyberpunk-2077-last-gen-consoles/
https://youtu.be/eSneA4ZNPhg?t=258

December : CDPR are apologizing for deliberately withholding footage of above and "for not making it play better on PS4 and XBox"
https://twitter.com/CyberpunkGame/status/1338390123373801472/photo/1

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Gersen: I never said that, I just said that if you want to accuse somebody of lying you have to prove that they are purposely lying and that "surprisingly well" is a vague enough statement that it will be extremely hard to prove it.
Even without Sony's statements, CDPR's own second statement (whilst positive to gamers as an apology) is also an admission that the first statement made by CDPR's CEO to investors was an incorrect / misleading statement (and an admission that CDPR themselves deem the PS4 version of the game to run objectively badly enough to apologise for and refund overall that arguments like "Well I'm sure Adam meant 10fps is good compared to expected 2fps" to defend not admitting that Cyberpunk runs like cr*p on the PS4 in the investor call have already gone straight out of the window). I certainly hope they don't get sued, and I've no idea of whether a lawsuit is even brewing or just hot air from "some guy in a forum", but it's not hard to see how CDPR's own apology contradicts CDPR's own CEO's statement from an investor point of view.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by AB2012
Posted December 20, 2020
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Gersen: My question was simply if it was a fact (i.e. with some official statement) or just speculation?
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AB2012: Sony removed it due to the volume of refunds. And that was caused by obviously bad and universally slammed performance issues. They're hardly unrelated. The real on topic issue though (and answer to your original reply to me of "if I expect a game to run at 2 FPS on my computer and it runs at 10 FPS then I can say that it runs "surprisingly well"), is this:-

November : CDPR CEO was boasting "surprisingly good, very good performance" for the PS4
https://www.dualshockers.com/cyberpunk-2077-last-gen-consoles/
https://youtu.be/eSneA4ZNPhg?t=258

December : CDPR are apologizing for deliberately withholding footage of above and "for not making it play better on PS4 and XBox"
https://twitter.com/CyberpunkGame/status/1338390123373801472/photo/1

Even without Sony's statements, CDPR's own second statement (whilst positive to gamers as an apology) is also an admission that the first statement made by CDPR's CEO to investors was an incorrect / misleading statement (and an admission that CDPR themselves deem the PS4 version of the game to run objectively badly enough to apologise for and refund overall that arguments like "Well I'm sure Adam meant 10fps is good compared to expected 2fps" to defend not admitting that Cyberpunk runs like cr*p on the PS4 in the investor call have already gone straight out of the window). I certainly hope they don't get sued, and I've no idea of whether a lawsuit is even brewing or just hot air from "some guy in a forum", but it's not hard to see how CDPR's own apology contradicts CDPR's own CEO's statement from an investor point of view.
I hope they do. On one hand, we don't know who's coming in, but, remember, it's not like we're talking about it getting sold to epic or tencent or something like that. It's basically in-house vs in-house. I think a change of management is absolutely necessary at this point after all the debacles. Perhaps the new management will make their positions more clear to the customer base if it is the case that it's the investors are overwhelmingly pushing too hard. Either way, this is a chance to stir the pot.
Posted December 20, 2020
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Gersen: I never said that, I just said that if you want to accuse somebody of lying you have to prove that they are purposely lying and that "surprisingly well" is a vague enough statement that it will be extremely hard to prove it.
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AB2012: Even without Sony's statements, CDPR's own second statement (whilst positive to gamers as an apology) is also an admission that the first statement made by CDPR's CEO to investors was an incorrect / misleading statement (and an admission that CDPR themselves deem the PS4 version of the game to run objectively badly enough to apologise for and refund overall that arguments like "Well I'm sure Adam meant 10fps is good compared to expected 2fps" to defend not admitting that Cyberpunk runs like cr*p on the PS4 in the investor call have already gone straight out of the window).
Exactly. "It's going to be difficult to prove that the 'PS4 version runs very good' statement is a lie". No dude. The proof is there (points to CDPR's own apology admitting that the PS4 version of the game runs abysmally). They were barely 2 weeks apart and nothing had massively changed over that time.

Speaking of which, Damn Keano, you don't look well at all...
Post edited December 20, 2020 by BrianSim
Posted December 20, 2020
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Dark_art_: unless you're stating the general "gaming" population are brain dead robots in big corps mind control?
Browsing through the GOG forums, im beginning to wonder if thats not actually the case.
Posted December 20, 2020
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Yeshu: So basically some no name lawyer thinks he could make it big and brags about it on the Internet.
It's not even known if he's a lawyer. This is from a forum where anyone can sign up and say he's the Queen of England.
The fact that no official lawyer's office, on their official facebook profile for example, made mention of this, and judging by the dodgy email, I'm wondering if it's not just a scam aimed at people who reply to him. If it *is* a real lawyer, he's a highly unprofessional one.

I read about it 2 days ago on a Polish news site that mentioned "an alleged lawyer". I love it that by the time it reached the OP's NYTimes it turned into "Lawyers and investors". This is priceless.
Posted December 20, 2020
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Yeshu: So basically some no name lawyer thinks he could make it big and brags about it on the Internet.
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ZFR: It's not even known if he's a lawyer. This is from a forum where anyone can sign up and say he's the Queen of England.
The fact that no official lawyer's office, on their official facebook profile for example, made mention of this, and judging by the dodgy email, I'm wondering if it's not just a scam aimed at people who reply to him. If it *is* a real lawyer, he's a highly unprofessional one.

I read about it 2 days ago on a Polish news site that mentioned "an alleged lawyer". I love it that by the time it reached the OP's NYTimes it turned into "Lawyers and investors". This is priceless.
Well, nothing surprises me with the old gray lady. She got senile.

But, this is pretty standard behavior for boomer lawyers, and this case is likely to be mostly of concern to boomers, as they seem to be more worried about pensions on average than young people.
Posted December 20, 2020
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Abishia: I find it logical the game feels a little like a scam that they try to get away with.
dont get me wrong the game it self is nothing wrong with but it looks like they intentionally wanna drop stocks for reasons to get rich on a filthy way

so the law suit makes sense they should not get away with a scam like this.
That's an interesting conspiracy theory, one that I haven't heard yet.
It has one big problem though. It only works if they can later, after having purchased those cheap stocks, somehow make the stock value rise again.

Unless they have something like a perfectly working game waiting in the vaults, that's a huge gamble that is most likely going to fail.

A nice conspiracy theory though. If it's even remotely true, those guys sure would be patient. Even preparing the stock value drop took what, like, eight years?
Posted December 20, 2020
So cyberpunk is put out early for shareholders but no they are suing

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PixelBoy: A nice conspiracy theory though. If it's even remotely true, those guys sure would be patient. Even preparing the stock value drop took what, like, eight years?
The stock increases happened at different periods.
Posted December 20, 2020
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Abishia: I find it logical the game feels a little like a scam that they try to get away with.
dont get me wrong the game it self is nothing wrong with but it looks like they intentionally wanna drop stocks for reasons to get rich on a filthy way

so the law suit makes sense they should not get away with a scam like this.
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PixelBoy: That's an interesting conspiracy theory, one that I haven't heard yet.
It has one big problem though. It only works if they can later, after having purchased those cheap stocks, somehow make the stock value rise again.

Unless they have something like a perfectly working game waiting in the vaults, that's a huge gamble that is most likely going to fail.

A nice conspiracy theory though. If it's even remotely true, those guys sure would be patient. Even preparing the stock value drop took what, like, eight years?
seen more crazy things when it comes to stock manipulation.
thats reason why i suggest that the FBI should look this cause because it feels like stock crash on purpose
Posted December 21, 2020
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MaceyNeil: Not really. Teaching myself to code so i can make games that i can actually enjoy. Using linux to keep away from mainstream.
Fact of the matter is boardgaming is having a resurgence and I'm heavily invested in that; quite comfortably so.

Far as I'm concerned if they abandon the values that are the niche, they deserve everything they get for the malicious psychopathy that is a corporate capitalistic ethos.
If they want to say it's a dog eat dog world, they can't also complain when a dog like steam knocks them down and gobbles them up.
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kohlrak: Careful: bullshit is coming to coding. I recommend that if you're not using C (which is most likely the case), be prepared to port to it over the next 10 years, and even then that doesn't protect you, but I imagine C is least likely to get affected. C++ is about to turn into hell, java already is, and the writing's on the wall that Google's going to play with everything else when their shit with C++ causes and exodus.
That might make me care if i wasn't interested mainly in the application of basic mathmatics and parser adventures that can handle an external card based system.

As it is i don't use crap like rpg maker or unity; what i use is as simple as html and i don't believe linux will lose functionality in that regard any time soon.

Besides they are going to have to pry windows 7 from my cold dead fingers so even if all the mainstays in the OS world start planning a forced obsolescence (defective by design) I'll still have all the good ol' programs from the non subscription model era i'll be continueing to enjoy.
Posted December 21, 2020
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kohlrak: Careful: bullshit is coming to coding. I recommend that if you're not using C (which is most likely the case), be prepared to port to it over the next 10 years, and even then that doesn't protect you, but I imagine C is least likely to get affected. C++ is about to turn into hell, java already is, and the writing's on the wall that Google's going to play with everything else when their shit with C++ causes and exodus.
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MaceyNeil: That might make me care if i wasn't interested mainly in the application of basic mathmatics and parser adventures that can handle an external card based system.

As it is i don't use crap like rpg maker or unity; what i use is as simple as html and i don't believe linux will lose functionality in that regard any time soon.

Besides they are going to have to pry windows 7 from my cold dead fingers so even if all the mainstays in the OS world start planning a forced obsolescence (defective by design) I'll still have all the good ol' programs from the non subscription model era i'll be continueing to enjoy.
Linux itself is in danger by this, but i doubt it'll completely disappear because of it.

As for HTML, it has changes and deprecation issues. Good luck.

But, that's also why i suggest C: it's the glue that holds everything together, and it's also all that's really what you need for basic mathematics and parsers. It's also one of the more basic programming languages out there.

what exactly are you using for an external card based system?
Posted December 21, 2020
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MaceyNeil: That might make me care if i wasn't interested mainly in the application of basic mathmatics and parser adventures that can handle an external card based system.

As it is i don't use crap like rpg maker or unity; what i use is as simple as html and i don't believe linux will lose functionality in that regard any time soon.

Besides they are going to have to pry windows 7 from my cold dead fingers so even if all the mainstays in the OS world start planning a forced obsolescence (defective by design) I'll still have all the good ol' programs from the non subscription model era i'll be continueing to enjoy.
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kohlrak: Linux itself is in danger by this, but i doubt it'll completely disappear because of it.

As for HTML, it has changes and deprecation issues. Good luck.

But, that's also why i suggest C: it's the glue that holds everything together, and it's also all that's really what you need for basic mathematics and parsers. It's also one of the more basic programming languages out there.

what exactly are you using for an external card based system?
What are you referring to with the C++ / Linux comments? You somehow make it sound like end of world is coming but I have no idea what you mean...
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionPossible class-action lawsuit for cdpr(83 posts)(83 posts)
(83 posts)