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Invasion10: Gonna be funny when everyone burns CDPR to the ground and EA takes over GOG, Witcher series, and Cyberpunk.
Doesnt evidence(*) point to Tencent instead of EA? (Some shady deal in this direction may also be a potential interpretation of those 'financial benefits' in the article.)

(*) Edit: GOGs behavior vs Devotion and the subsequent silence about it.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by Zrevnur
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Makasouls: I never even heard of this game till like last month, but it looked stupid then. Now that i read that article they are a joke and a bunch of clowns. Stellar tactics os made by one person, and for about the same tiime and he has it playable and endless repeatablity with random generations, and i played it arounf 40 houts with 0 bugs. The story id way better 2.

Your telling me these ass clowns had 8 years, and they released tranny simulator, with garbage npc machiancs, garbage fighting, garbage atoey, and all the bugs. The serious f they been doing for 8 years playing with thier balls. I mean even the shitty game star citizen got more done haha.

If I were the leader id fire every one, throw that dumpster pile of a game in the gabage hole, and try to find some compent people. They def should get sued. They should be ashamed to do what they did, hype people up then give them garbage. From the reviews and that article the entire game is medicore garbage even if you fixed the bugs.
Careful not to cut yourself on all of that edge.
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Invasion10: Gonna be funny when everyone burns CDPR to the ground and EA takes over GOG, Witcher series, and Cyberpunk.
and? hopefully there will be another new studio/publisher who will take its place
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Invasion10: Gonna be funny when everyone burns CDPR to the ground and EA takes over GOG, Witcher series, and Cyberpunk.
Not really. Teaching myself to code so i can make games that i can actually enjoy. Using linux to keep away from mainstream.
Fact of the matter is boardgaming is having a resurgence and I'm heavily invested in that; quite comfortably so.

Far as I'm concerned if they abandon the values that are the niche, they deserve everything they get for the malicious psychopathy that is a corporate capitalistic ethos.
If they want to say it's a dog eat dog world, they can't also complain when a dog like steam knocks them down and gobbles them up.
high rated
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NuffCatnip: I doubt anything is going to happen. They're actively working on fixing the game, if you could sue every publisher because of bugs, there wouldn't be such a big industry. Just look at all the other Triple A studios and the stuff they get away with on a daily basis.
The concern is less being sued by gamers and more being sued by investors:-

Q3 2020 Earning Calll Transcript:-

Question: "The game has not been presented on base, not pro console PS4 and Xbox 1 so far. What is the performance of the game on this machine?"

CDPR CEO Adam Kicinski: "Of course, a bit lower than on pros, but surprisingly good, I would say for such a huge world. So, bit lower, but very good. That's the answer."

https://youtu.be/eSneA4ZNPhg?t=258

^ "The game runs very good, surprisingly good on old consoles" said CDP's CEO to investors as documented in an earnings call. That stuff just doesn't get ignored by investors / shareholders...
Post edited December 20, 2020 by AB2012
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NuffCatnip: I doubt anything is going to happen. They're actively working on fixing the game, if you could sue every publisher because of bugs, there wouldn't be such a big industry. Just look at all the other Triple A studios and the stuff they get away with on a daily basis.
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AB2012: The concern is less being sued by gamers and more being sued by investors:-

Q3 2020 Earning Calll Transcript:-

Question: "The game has not been presented on base, not pro console PS4 and Xbox 1 so far. What is the performance of the game on this machine?"

CDPR CEO Adam Kicinski: "Of course, a bit lower than on pros, but surprisingly good, I would say for such a huge world. So, bit lower, but very good. That's the answer."

https://youtu.be/eSneA4ZNPhg?t=258

^ "The game runs very good, surprisingly on old consoles" said CDP's CEO to investors documented in an earnings call. That stuff just doesn't get ignored by investors / shareholders...
hope so he will get what he deserves, lying to the investors is the same as stealing, deserves jail time
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.Ra: Lawyers and investors in Warsaw are circling the situation, contemplating a class-action lawsuit against the company for what one attorney described as potential criminal “misrepresentation in order to receive financial benefits.”
Nothing news, it's the same "lawyer wanting to do class action" that circulated next week, a lot of peoples seems to think it's a scam because the lawyer e-mail address are some sort of "gmail" equivalent and not some real law firm e-mails and the text is written in an "amateurish" kind of way.

Also I am no specialist of Polish law or even of any laws, but does class action even exists there ? I thought it was mostly a US invention and not really something existing in Europe.
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NuffCatnip: I doubt anything is going to happen. They're actively working on fixing the game, if you could sue every publisher because of bugs, there wouldn't be such a big industry. Just look at all the other Triple A studios and the stuff they get away with on a daily basis.
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AB2012: The concern is less being sued by gamers and more being sued by investors:-

Q3 2020 Earning Calll Transcript:-

Question: "The game has not been presented on base, not pro console PS4 and Xbox 1 so far. What is the performance of the game on this machine?"

CDPR CEO Adam Kicinski: "Of course, a bit lower than on pros, but surprisingly good, I would say for such a huge world. So, bit lower, but very good. That's the answer."

https://youtu.be/eSneA4ZNPhg?t=258

^ "The game runs very good, surprisingly good on old consoles" said CDP's CEO to investors as documented in an earnings call. That stuff just doesn't get ignored by investors / shareholders...
Thanks!
Man, talk about crappy business practices.

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My 3am brain couldn't 'decipher' the article in the OP this morning, so thanks for that link and the input. :)
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Orkhepaj: hope so he will get what he deserves, lying to the investors is the same as stealing, deserves jail time
Yeah it doesn't look good. It's one thing to be vague like the question "Q. What percentage were GOG sales", "A. Well, uh, we don't normally release that information", but to literally say that vs investors who could be major financial institutions with well funded legal teams... Hopefully no-one at CDPR was dumb enough to sell stock around the same time at that call then buy it back after the recent drop (literal insider trading)...
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AB2012: CDPR CEO Adam Kicinski: "Of course, a bit lower than on pros, but surprisingly good, I would say for such
The thing is that "Surprisingly well" doesn't really mean anything, if I expect a game to run at 2 FPS on my computer and it runs at 10 FPS then I can say that it runs "surprisingly well" or even that it's very good (compared to what I expected). If they had said "the game will run at a constant 30 FPS on basic PS4" then yes it could be used against them but here it's like saying that something is going to be released "soon" it can be in one day or in 20 years.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by Gersen
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Makasouls: If I were the leader id fire every one
You understand that if you were the leader, you'd be the one responsible right?
Oh, and BTW, people only got hyped because they want it, unless you're stating the general "gaming" population are btain dead robots in big corps mind control?
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AB2012: CDPR CEO Adam Kicinski: "Of course, a bit lower than on pros, but surprisingly good, I would say for such
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Gersen: The thing is that "Surprisingly well" doesn't really mean anything, if I expect a game to run at 2 FPS on my computer and it runs at 10 FPS then I can say that it runs "surprisingly well" or even that it's very good (compared to what I expected). If they had said "the game will run at a constant 30 FPS on basic PS4" then yes it could be used against them but here it's like saying that something is going to be released "soon" it can be in one day or in 20 years.
You're absolutely correct. It would be 'surprising' if this case goes anywhere, although I'm no expert on Polish law.

For his comment to be misleading, you would want to be able to establish his baseline for unsurprising performance and to show that his baseline had been communicated to the investors.

Note that at this point, CDPR is still trading at the level it traded at a year ago - given that the WIG index in Poland is currently trading below the 2019 level (we're in the middle of a global pandemic/economic slowdown), it would be a difficult to really prove any loss beyond "Oh no, I didn't cash in on the speculative gains just before release by selling my shares based on the hype surrounding the product and buying them back a week later.
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Gersen: The thing is that "Surprisingly well" doesn't really mean anything, if I expect a game to run at 2 FPS on my computer and it runs at 10 FPS then I can say that it runs "surprisingly well" or even that it's very good (compared to what I expected). If they had said "the game will run at a constant 30 FPS on basic PS4" then yes it could be used against them but here it's like saying that something is going to be released "soon" it can be in one day or in 20 years.
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pds41: You're absolutely correct. It would be 'surprising' if this case goes anywhere, although I'm no expert on Polish law.

For his comment to be misleading, you would want to be able to establish his baseline for unsurprising performance and to show that his baseline had been communicated to the investors.

Note that at this point, CDPR is still trading at the level it traded at a year ago - given that the WIG index in Poland is currently trading below the 2019 level (we're in the middle of a global pandemic/economic slowdown), it would be a difficult to really prove any loss beyond "Oh no, I didn't cash in on the speculative gains just before release by selling my shares based on the hype surrounding the product and buying them back a week later.
I think that's not how it works in law, it doesn't matter what his baseline is, what matters what an average person expects as baseline.
You can't make misleading statements, and then deny you were lying by saying oh for you, it means other than what it means for the majority.
In this matter saying surprisingly well for 15 fps is clearly a lie.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by Orkhepaj
I find it logical the game feels a little like a scam that they try to get away with.
dont get me wrong the game it self is nothing wrong with but it looks like they intentionally wanna drop stocks for reasons to get rich on a filthy way

so the law suit makes sense they should not get away with a scam like this.
i personally think FBI should also look into this case
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Gersen: The thing is that "Surprisingly well" doesn't really mean anything, if I expect a game to run at 2 FPS on my computer and it runs at 10 FPS then I can say that it runs "surprisingly well" or even that it's very good (compared to what I expected).
They can try and "argue" that but that 1. Sony themselves have force-removed the game from their store for "inadequate performance and quality expected of the platform" (a platform with fixed specifications that have been known for nearly 10 years), and that 2. The context of what most people deem "surprisingly well" for frame-rates in first person games would be an average of what other games run like on that console (I doubt many would agree that 10-15fps average in some areas is so low that textures don't even load in properly or that vehicle turning becomes near impossible to control), is "surprisingly well". Likewise "they run a bit lower than on pros", can probably get away with 40-50 vs 60fps, but no-one's going to say an 80% reduction of 10-15fps is "a bit" lower than 60fps without the whole room bursting out laughing.

The issue with older consoles is that the whatever changes they've added to the engine since Witcher 3 has made it far too heavy for the CPU (8x Jaguar cores are literal "Intel Atom" class CPU's, ie, all 8x cores combined still perform less than a several year old Haswell i3 dual-core desktop, which is far below what CDPR have labelled "minimum" even for the bottom-rung barely playable PC). There's just no way the game would have run on those consoles with rewriting major parts of the engine, and there's no way that CDPR didn't know this all throughout given the static hardware nature of the console. They gambled on PS5 replacing PS4 quickly yet due to numerous factors (lockdown, scalpers, manufacturing yields, etc), hardly anyone can buy one. So PS4 still is "current gen" not last gen (and will remain so well into 2021 until people can buy PS5 in large numbers) placing CDPR in an unpleasant situation.

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pds41: For his comment to be misleading, you would want to be able to establish his baseline for unsurprising performance and to show that his baseline had been communicated to the investors
See above. You are correct a "baseline" will need to be established, but part of what makes consoles different to PC's is the closed ecosystem. You could make a 10fps PC game and claim it's "relatively better than 2fps" and there's nothing to stop you. With consoles though, you are given fixed API specific development tools that come with developer documentation that will almost certainly state exactly what is baseline / recommended, purely as insurance against a lawsuit by the developer vs Sony in the event it gets force-removed from the store for not meeting them. Like Sony just did with Cyberpunk 2077 - for clearly not meeting PS4's baseline expectations (and it is Sony that has the final say on what's "baseline" on their own store / platform / console...)
Post edited December 20, 2020 by AB2012