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Gede: But women aren't equal to men! We are biologically different. Women can give birth, for instance.
Even within the same gender people are different. Forcing equal treatment of everyone to me means either levelling down (e.g. "carry your own wheelchair up the stairs") or an unjustifiable waste of resources (e.g. men having maternity leaves and going to the gynaecologist).

I see gender discrimination as part of the broader problem of lack of empathy, respect and consideration for other people.
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CymTyr: I get what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. While I might view gender as binary, I also view men and women equally, just each gender better at certain things.

I have an extremely logical mind on a good day, where my sister might be one of the most empathic people you'd meet. Equal, good in different respects. You get what I'm selling?
Again with the positive sexism, but now someone different. First women are more competent, now women are more empathic? Where are these women at?
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CymTyr: I get what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. While I might view gender as binary, I also view men and women equally, just each gender better at certain things.

I have an extremely logical mind on a good day, where my sister might be one of the most empathic people you'd meet. Equal, good in different respects. You get what I'm selling?
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kohlrak: Again with the positive sexism, but now someone different. First women are more competent, now women are more empathic? Where are these women at?
I was using that as an example, not a gospel. I am now exiting the thread, thanks.
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kohlrak: Again with the positive sexism, but now someone different. First women are more competent, now women are more empathic? Where are these women at?
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CymTyr: I was using that as an example, not a gospel. I am now exiting the thread, thanks.
Why is it every time here that someone gets called out they "exit the thread?" Heck, a dev did that on talk about censorship when his partisan political views were brought to light. Dont' just make a final claim then immediately leave.
Post edited February 22, 2018 by kohlrak
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dtgreene: somebody who is transgender but doesn't realize it yet .
nuclear facepalm

edit: Nagasaki
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kohlrak: partisan political views
Post edited February 22, 2018 by Starmaker
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CymTyr: I was using that as an example, not a gospel. I am now exiting the thread, thanks.
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kohlrak: Why is it every time here that someone gets called out they "exit the thread?" Heck, a dev did that on talk about censorship when his partisan political views were brought to light. Dont' just make a final claim then immediately leave.
Generally spoken: the required time and effort to explain is not worth it. Just guessing; it would be my reason in such a case. Although I'm not sure I could muster up the same politeness.
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kohlrak: Why is it every time here that someone gets called out they "exit the thread?" Heck, a dev did that on talk about censorship when his partisan political views were brought to light. Dont' just make a final claim then immediately leave.
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anothername: Generally spoken: the required time and effort to explain is not worth it. Just guessing; it would be my reason in such a case. Although I'm not sure I could muster up the same politeness.
If that were so, then why include "i'm leaving this thread," with an actual response? Better yet, why announce you're leaving? If it's not worth the response, why are you then responding and leaving, while also taking the time and effort to announce that you're leaving?
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anothername: Generally spoken: the required time and effort to explain is not worth it. Just guessing; it would be my reason in such a case. Although I'm not sure I could muster up the same politeness.
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kohlrak: If that were so, then why include "i'm leaving this thread," with an actual response? Better yet, why announce you're leaving? If it's not worth the response, why are you then responding and leaving, while also taking the time and effort to announce that you're leaving?
That was the polite part to inform you that you do not need to waste your own time and energy into this; at least not for him.

I hope that this was satisfactory enough of an answer since I'll leaving this thread now ;) (no, not really, but I'm to bored of this specific subtopic to follow that any more).
Can't understand why somebody cannot imagine playing another sex. Come on, guys. Did you never dress up when you where young? VR is not different from RR (real reality).
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kohlrak: Why is it every time here that someone gets called out they "exit the thread?" Heck, a dev did that on talk about censorship when his partisan political views were brought to light. Dont' just make a final claim then immediately leave.
No, he left the thread because people read into his every little statement as "I hate things and wish I could censor them all". People couldn't get past the fact that he didn't like certain content that was added specifically for the shock value rather than artistic integrity. But that's a different discussion. He's bowing out because he doesn't want to have this discussion. Not with you or anyone. It's not the point that "you got him good, mate" but rather that he's not interested in the direction the discussion has taken. That's all. At least, that's why I do it.
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kohlrak: If that were so, then why include "i'm leaving this thread," with an actual response? Better yet, why announce you're leaving? If it's not worth the response, why are you then responding and leaving, while also taking the time and effort to announce that you're leaving?
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anothername: That was the polite part to inform you that you do not need to waste your own time and energy into this; at least not for him.

I hope that this was satisfactory enough of an answer since I'll leaving this thread now ;) (no, not really, but I'm to bored of this specific subtopic to follow that any more).
Leave me nothing, and i'll have nothing to respond to. Weak argument, but good effort.

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kohlrak: Why is it every time here that someone gets called out they "exit the thread?" Heck, a dev did that on talk about censorship when his partisan political views were brought to light. Dont' just make a final claim then immediately leave.
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paladin181: No, he left the thread because people read into his every little statement as "I hate things and wish I could censor them all". People couldn't get past the fact that he didn't like certain content that was added specifically for the shock value rather than artistic integrity. But that's a different discussion. He's bowing out because he doesn't want to have this discussion. Not with you or anyone. It's not the point that "you got him good, mate" but rather that he's not interested in the direction the discussion has taken. That's all. At least, that's why I do it.
Then there's no point in mentioning that you're leaving the discussion. One can leave the thread without announcing their grand departure, and making a final argument. Rather, it's more like "i have an argument, and i want it to be the last word, don't you dare hold issue with it, form a counter, etc, because I'm leaving." At least, that's how I see it, since there's absolutely no reason why you would continue even that little bit if you felt it wasn't worth responding to or continuing. And why is it worth mentioning that you're leaving a thread? Do people do this with all threads? Is this even normal practice for threads? AFAIK, "it isn't," "no," and "no." I would really hope their magesties actually felt it important for every thread to announce their departure so their royal subjects could leave with them, but sometimes it appears that some people get left behind.
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Trilarion: Can't understand why somebody cannot imagine playing another sex. Come on, guys. Did you never dress up when you where young? VR is not different from RR (real reality).
Dressing up isn't something everybody does, and it's not something that everyone is comfortable doing, either.

In particular, a strongly gendered cisgender person (that is, one who feels strongly about their gender) is not likely to crossdress, and is not that likely to play as the opposite sex. On the other hand, people who don't care about their gender are likely more willing to experiment with this sort of thing, as are transgender people who are still in the egg or questioning phase.

Of course, there are likely counterexamples to claims like the ones I am making here; humans are *really* diverse when it comes to things like this. (Even when I posted about preferred pronouns in another thread, someone came in and said it wouldn't mind being called "it".)

Edit: "particularly" -> "particular" ("particularly" ain't a word)
Post edited February 22, 2018 by dtgreene
why somebody cannot imagine playing another sex.
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Trilarion: Can't understand why somebody cannot imagine playing another sex. Come on, guys. Did you never dress up when you where young? VR is not different from RR (real reality).
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dtgreene: Dressing up isn't something everybody does, and it's not something that everyone is comfortable doing, either.

In particularly, a strongly gendered cisgender person (that is, one who feels strongly about their gender) is not likely to crossdress, and is not that likely to play as the opposite sex. On the other hand, people who don't care about their gender are likely more willing to experiment with this sort of thing, as are transgender people who are still in the egg or questioning phase.

Of course, there are likely counterexamples to claims like the ones I am making here; humans are *really* diverse when it comes to things like this. (Even when I posted about preferred pronouns in another thread, someone came in and said it wouldn't mind being called "it".)
Interesting, claims without data, then mention of exceptions. How do we know all "exceptions" are so, and that none of them are rule of thumb? Confirmation bias?
Going down a completely different path here, my thought was, "If VR gets to be truly accurate, you may have to completely relearn how to throw a softball if you play as a different gender."

Due to the differences in anatomical structure down to the skeletal level, the movement patterns to complete an action can be quite different. That's why the makers of Senua's Sacrifice didn't choose to use a male actor for motion capture, but a female actor (aka actress). The animation wouldn't look right on a female character model unless the base data was captured from a female. (I suppose a lot of post-processing might solve it, but the faster/cheaper way is just to use a female.)
Post edited February 22, 2018 by Luned
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tinyE: Here is some more:

A karma hit my dogma.
I hate that I'm smiling at this wordplay and can't stop no matter how hard I try.