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CymTyr: I keep forgetting this is a thing very much part of the modern world, unfortunately. I was raised to respect women, and while I may be old fashioned, I do respect women in general, unless they give me a reason not to.

I still don't get why women aren't considered equal, in things other than physical strength. Maybe I just answered my own question, though... : /
The only online game I play (currently) is Team Fortress 2. All the characters (classes) themselves are male-only, albeit I suspect the Spy class is gay because they always attack from behind, (flesh)stabbing your ass. Others are more or less hetero classes, I believe.

Anyways, occasionally there are players which by their username appear to be female. I haven't really seen harassment against them there (all messages in the game are public). The worst I recall seeing is one boy awkwardly trying to chat with supposedly female player, but I actually told him to concentrate on the game and stop spamming with his lines.

What I have witnessed though is white-knighting, just because someone is supposedly female. I might sometimes tell other players quite harshly what I think of their (lack of) playing, and I don't care about the gender, I don't use silk gloves just because someone is called "Natalie" or whatever, especially as I can't even be sure of their gender.

That sometimes wakes up some white knights who apparently feel it is wrong to treat female players as harshly as male players. What ever happened to treating them equally, both in good and bad? If I want to (figuratively) punch someone in the face, should gender matter?
Post edited February 19, 2018 by timppu
"Yeah, you got tits man!"

https://youtu.be/4VVrWi0Q3q0?t=7m25s
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KasperHviid: So I'm a bit confused about the whole deal. Am I misleading the other player? And do I even want to play the opposite sex when I'm that close to the character? Weird stuff!
It's basically a VR pong, I doubt anybody care whenever you are a man, woman or a four headed agender unicorn.

Also men playing women avatar or women playing with men avatar is nothing new on multi-player games and VR doesn't change anything to that. If you look a VR chat, which for some reason seems to be popular nowadays, 99% of the anime girl there are actually dudes and nobody care or is surprised by it.
Post edited February 19, 2018 by Gersen
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CymTyr: You're also forgetting that I see gender as binary, dt. I thought we unofficially agreed to disagree a while back. If I was mistaken, sorry.
Guess you never read the Ringworld series. They have a trigender alien in there.

Just to mess with your morning. :)
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timppu: The only online game I play (currently) is Team Fortress 2. All the characters (classes) themselves are male-only, albeit I suspect the Spy class is gay because they always attack from behind, (flesh)stabbing your ass. Others are more or less hetero classes, I believe.
The spy is at least bi given he regularly sleeps with the Scout's mother.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR4N5OhcY9s
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bler144: "I blew up 5 planets and killed a billion zombies as an 8-armed space alien, and I totally get that. It's pretty much in line with my every day experience IRL. But now this game asks me to take on physical features of a human being of another gender - ZOMG what do I do!!?!?! It's completely unfathomable!"
I think the point here is it's far easier and more comfortable to suspend disbelief for things that are way out of whack. This gets into the uncanny valley though. The space between "totally coudn't ever be real" and "it's totally real". There's an area there that's close enough to reality, but just a little off, and your brain doesn't know how to handle it. This is close to that, and the reaction isfrom your brain's confusion on how to handle it. Is it fiction that we can dismiss as totally fun, but not real, or is it reality with real risks and such.

It's like playing a VR game that makes you jump off a building. That can be too much for many people. Some people can separate it out as fiction and woudn't hesitate to jump. Most though have a hesitation as they have to remind themselves it's not real.
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CymTyr: You're also forgetting that I see gender as binary, dt. I thought we unofficially agreed to disagree a while back. If I was mistaken, sorry.
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drmike: Guess you never read the Ringworld series. They have a trigender alien in there.

Just to mess with your morning. :)
Never read Ringworld :) I hear I'm missing out. Might have to fix that.
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bler144: "I blew up 5 planets and killed a billion zombies as an 8-armed space alien, and I totally get that. It's pretty much in line with my every day experience IRL. But now this game asks me to take on physical features of a human being of another gender - ZOMG what do I do!!?!?! It's completely unfathomable!"
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paladin181: I think the point here is it's far easier and more comfortable to suspend disbelief for things that are way out of whack. This gets into the uncanny valley though. The space between "totally coudn't ever be real" and "it's totally real". There's an area there that's close enough to reality, but just a little off, and your brain doesn't know how to handle it. This is close to that, and the reaction isfrom your brain's confusion on how to handle it. Is it fiction that we can dismiss as totally fun, but not real, or is it reality with real risks and such.

It's like playing a VR game that makes you jump off a building. That can be too much for many people. Some people can separate it out as fiction and woudn't hesitate to jump. Most though have a hesitation as they have to remind themselves it's not real.
This brings up an interesting point when it comes to being triggered. If somebody is triggered by certain types of violence, for example, that person is likely to be triggered only by realistic or near-realistic depictions of such. Somebody who is triggered by gunshots might, for example, be able to play Contra or Metroid without being triggered. However, have them play a more realistic FPS, and that person would likely be triggered to the point of not being able to play the game. Of course, when you start including things like laser guns and other futuristic weapons, the trigger might again disappear; perhaps such a person might be able to play a game like Star Wars: Jedi Acadmeny. (Or perhaps not; it depends on the person.)

Another example of the uncanny value factor comes with the later Elder Scrolls games. Here, you have the combination of realistic graphics with, in some cases, unrealistic gameplay, which can be quite jarring. I remember seeing a video where the player, with at least 100% Reflect Damage, was being attacked. The player kept being hit, but didn't flinch at all, and then the enemies suddenly dropped dead.

I remember seeing a video from a game with realistic graphics, only to see some vehicles popping in/out of view, which was, again, jarring.
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dtgreene: This brings up an interesting point when it comes to being triggered. If somebody is triggered by certain types of violence, for example, that person is likely to be triggered only by realistic or near-realistic depictions of such. Somebody who is triggered by gunshots might, for example, be able to play Contra or Metroid without being triggered. However, have them play a more realistic FPS, and that person would likely be triggered to the point of not being able to play the game. Of course, when you start including things like laser guns and other futuristic weapons, the trigger might again disappear; perhaps such a person might be able to play a game like Star Wars: Jedi Acadmeny. (Or perhaps not; it depends on the person.)

Another example of the uncanny value factor comes with the later Elder Scrolls games. Here, you have the combination of realistic graphics with, in some cases, unrealistic gameplay, which can be quite jarring. I remember seeing a video where the player, with at least 100% Reflect Damage, was being attacked. The player kept being hit, but didn't flinch at all, and then the enemies suddenly dropped dead.

I remember seeing a video from a game with realistic graphics, only to see some vehicles popping in/out of view, which was, again, jarring.
By the same token, the same thing happens to us in real life. Think about a time where something happened that you really thought would never happen. That surreal feeling people describe from it is the same thing. That feeling of disbelief that it's really happening to you because it's something you've only ever seen happen to others, whether it is good or bad. There's a few moments where your head is spinning, and you're having trouble grasping the idea thatit's really happening. That's the same uncanny valley effect: your brain doesn't know whether this momentous event is real or is fiction as you're more accustomed to it being, and thus doesn't know how to react.
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dtgreene: [...[
Another example of the uncanny value factor comes with the later Elder Scrolls games. Here, you have the combination of realistic graphics with, in some cases, unrealistic gameplay, which can be quite jarring
[...]
The term you are looking for is "Uncanny Valley", and what you describe here is not it

What you describe is more like ludonarrative dissonance.
Post edited February 19, 2018 by amok
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morolf: I think you should, just to experience the sexual harassment you're likely to get and see things from a woman's point of view. It might help you to get rid of any residual toxic masculinity in your personality.
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CymTyr: I keep forgetting this is a thing very much part of the modern world, unfortunately. I was raised to respect women, and while I may be old fashioned, I do respect women in general, unless they give me a reason not to.

I still don't get why women aren't considered equal, in things other than physical strength. Maybe I just answered my own question, though... : /
I play Monster Hunter as female, only got hit on by a guy once. I also got hit on by a chick, though, but she knew I was a male. It was awkward getting a message from the dude saying "i know you might be a guy, so if you are, please don't tell me" or something along those lines. I figured i'd just nip it in the bud and ruin his day anyway. It wasn't even me he was into, but my black leather pants and the hellhunter jacket on this female avatar. I don't see where women feel sexually harassed all the time. The few i see complaining are usually women who come off as easy lays. Usually they're complaining about how they hit on everyone but then get harassed by "fuckboys." Protip: you won't find a pheonix when you're surrounded by vultures.
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bler144: "I blew up 5 planets and killed a billion zombies as an 8-armed space alien, and I totally get that. It's pretty much in line with my every day experience IRL. But now this game asks me to take on physical features of a human being of another gender - ZOMG what do I do!!?!?! It's completely unfathomable!"
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paladin181: I think the point here is it's far easier and more comfortable to suspend disbelief for things that are way out of whack. This gets into the uncanny valley though. The space between "totally coudn't ever be real" and "it's totally real". There's an area there that's close enough to reality, but just a little off, and your brain doesn't know how to handle it. This is close to that, and the reaction isfrom your brain's confusion on how to handle it. Is it fiction that we can dismiss as totally fun, but not real, or is it reality with real risks and such.

It's like playing a VR game that makes you jump off a building. That can be too much for many people. Some people can separate it out as fiction and woudn't hesitate to jump. Most though have a hesitation as they have to remind themselves it's not real.
This is a scary prospect, too, since games help us normalize behaviors (as Jordan Peterson points out), which is why we often hear violent people were violent with other children, a lot of young women pick up sexual orientation from playing house (this is based on anecdotal evidence from talking to several bisexual women, while science itself seems to lean towards suggesting all women are bisexual regardless of experiences [i have to mention this to be intellectually honest]), boys hunting as children have a much, much easier time hunting deer, etc. While controlling a gun with a stick or mouse in GTA won't make it easier to shoot real people, a very real looking parkour course could lead to overestimation of some out of shape kid's abilities. I don't think we should censor the material or anything, because that's the parent's job, but it is something to keep our eyes peeled for.

EDIT: There comes a time where we have to ask ourselves when the level of realism actually could impact our thinking. Those who say we shouldn't play violent video games are obviously wrong, according to the science, but they have a legitimate question based on other science to question if there's a point where something becomes real enough to start justifying the question again.
Post edited February 19, 2018 by kohlrak
I always play as a female. I think it results in part from when I was a kid watching David Bowie get up on stage and push the limits of androgyny and being totally in awe with his ability to play with gender rolls so beautifully and seemingly so easily. That's part of it, the other part being the fact that (sexist statement incoming) in my experience, women are all around more competent human beings than men. I feel safer with a female leading the way, more assured. I envy that in them and use games to vicariously live with that ability and aura.
Post edited February 19, 2018 by tinyE
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tinyE: I always play as a female. I think it results in part from when I was a kid watching David Bowie get up on stage and push the limits of androgyny and being totally in awe with his ability to play with gender rolls so beautifully and seemingly so easily.
Hormones ultimately make up the majority of our differences, which can be acted away when the physical differences are hidden. The violence and rape statistics show that suppressing hormone driven behavior is relatively easy, too.
That's part of it, the other part being the fact that (sexist statement incoming) in my experience, women are all around more competent human beings than men. I feel safer with a female leading the way, more assured. I envy that in them and use games to vicariously live with that ability and aura.
Where you meeting these women!? Or are you confusing overall competence with competence to tasks? One of the big things that came out on the science supported google memo was high neuroticism on the part of women, which leads to over-competence on tasks, simply because, on average, they don't challenge themselves (and why should they we men do it for them when having the opposite problem of overestimating their own ability?).
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KasperHviid: (Disclaimer: I'm not talking about transgender stuff here. Someone who identifies as a female and also plays a female is a totally different thing.)

I have just discovered Sparc, a multiplayer sports game for VR. Trailer here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRf7kVFAmUc

The game lets you customize your character. Not as detailed as those big-ass RPG's, but here you're inside VR, customizing while you look at yourself in the mirror. You can pose yourself by, well, posing. Check out the attachment. Notice that I'm better at posing when my character is female. Dudes don't pose.

This is a duel game, an evolved version of softball for two players. And before the game start, the two players are standing only a few meters from each other. And I feel it would be a bit much, having another player looking directly at me and seeing a female. Kinda like I'm impersonating a woman, rather than playing a female character.

So I'm a bit confused about the whole deal. Am I misleading the other player? And do I even want to play the opposite sex when I'm that close to the character? Weird stuff!
Weird indeed.

I usually prefer female characters in games which gives the option (and usually avoid game which does not entirely, but that is another topic); but I never see them as "myself" but rather the protagonist of the game I'm playing i.e. just like I watch Ripley shooting stuff in Alien(s). With a little more of a tamagotchi feeling to it (I think, never had or wanted one). I like that distance between myself as "invisible guide/protector" (or pervy voyeur as some of my chars would describe me :P ) and my characters. All of the sudden to BE them? I think I would prefer male on such a game; but I don't think it will keep me for long.
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tinyE: I always play as a female. I think it results in part from when I was a kid watching David Bowie get up on stage and push the limits of androgyny and being totally in awe with his ability to play with gender rolls so beautifully and seemingly so easily.
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kohlrak: Hormones ultimately make up the majority of our differences, which can be acted away when the physical differences are hidden. The violence and rape statistics show that suppressing hormone driven behavior is relatively easy, too.
In some cases, it could be whether the person't hormones align with the brain. Give a cisgender person cross-sex hormones (see Alan Turing and David Reimer for examples of this happening), and the result can easily lead to depression and suicide. Withholding such hormones from a transgender person has a similar effect as well.

It's also worth noting that it is common for transgender people to take hormones corresponding to their gender identity; this, aside from the mental effects, will cause them to be physically more like that gender, including such things like physical strength, breast growth, facial hair, and voice dropping. (Obviously, not all for the same people.)