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General discussionPlaying GOG games on real Retro DOS PC(16 posts)(16 posts)
(16 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 25, 2020
Hello,

I own a very special RETRO PC for playing my old games:

- AMD K6-3 400Mhz
- 256MB Ram
- 3Dfx Voodoo1 PCI
- 3Dfx Voodoo4 4500 PCI
- LG DVD ROM Drive
- Gravis Ultrasound PNP (8MB Ram)
- Creative SB AWE 32 (8MB Ram)
- Terratec EWS64 (32MB Ram)
- Roland MT32 Module
- Roland SC155 Sound Canvas Module
- All drives emulated via SD2IDE Adapters
- Windows 98SE and DOS 6.22

So I buy many games not yet in my list but also want to play them on the "Real" machine.
I know that GOG is holding 99% of the Single CD games on a file called game.gog which is a normal iso but only renamed.

I tried to rename the file and burn to CDR but only a very few are readable with DOS. Most are not. What do I wrong?

Greetings
Posted April 25, 2020
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darkvamp1976: ...
Sorry I can't help, but if you don't get help here on the GOG forum you could try Reddit, like a retro gaming subreddit maybe.
Posted April 25, 2020
avatar
darkvamp1976: Hello,

I own a very special RETRO PC for playing my old games:

- AMD K6-3 400Mhz
- 256MB Ram
- 3Dfx Voodoo1 PCI
- 3Dfx Voodoo4 4500 PCI
- LG DVD ROM Drive
- Gravis Ultrasound PNP (8MB Ram)
- Creative SB AWE 32 (8MB Ram)
- Terratec EWS64 (32MB Ram)
- Roland MT32 Module
- Roland SC155 Sound Canvas Module
- All drives emulated via SD2IDE Adapters
- Windows 98SE and DOS 6.22

So I buy many games not yet in my list but also want to play them on the "Real" machine.
I know that GOG is holding 99% of the Single CD games on a file called game.gog which is a normal iso but only renamed.

I tried to rename the file and burn to CDR but only a very few are readable with DOS. Most are not. What do I wrong?

Greetings
I think most users here only have experience with modern hardware. Vogons forums is probably a better bet. Judging from that fine retro pc of your's though, I suspect you're already there!

This thread on Vogons may be of interest:

Digital DOS games (GOG, Steam...) Retro PC Compatibility Sheet: We need your input!
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48490
Posted April 25, 2020
For some of those DOS games, you might need to use a floppy disk rather than a CD.
Posted April 25, 2020
avatar
darkvamp1976: So I buy many games not yet in my list but also want to play them on the "Real" machine. I know that GOG is holding 99% of the Single CD games on a file called game.gog which is a normal iso but only renamed. I tried to rename the file and burn to CDR but only a very few are readable with DOS. Most are not. What do I wrong?
All I can think of is:-

1. Make sure that every file actually is an ISO and not perhaps a BIN/CUE or other. Eg, for Quake 1's game.cue and game.gog soundtrack files, the ".gog" file is a renamed BIN image not an ISO file.

2. Make sure you're burning the optical disc file system as ISO 9600 and not just "UDF 1.5". MSCDEX may have issues reading only the latter (that only came out during the post Windows 95 era).

3. Despite being known as "the place to get old games", in reality GOG place zero priority on maintaining actual "archival / preservation" grade releases in their original format. Eg, many 80's / 90's point & click adventure games that can now run under ScummVM have had their .exe's removed by GOG solely to force people to use Windows + ScummVM, so they no longer work at all under under MS-DOS / FreeDOS / DOSBox. I'll be honest here and simply say that if you're good at tweaking and / or finding "No-CD's" and want to run games in DOS, then you may be far better off sourcing original discs off Ebay / "Abadonware" versions than relying on GOG installers "preserving" their original format.
Post edited April 25, 2020 by AB2012
Posted April 25, 2020
avatar
darkvamp1976: So I buy many games not yet in my list but also want to play them on the "Real" machine. I know that GOG is holding 99% of the Single CD games on a file called game.gog which is a normal iso but only renamed. I tried to rename the file and burn to CDR but only a very few are readable with DOS. Most are not. What do I wrong?
avatar
AB2012: All I can think of is:-

1. Make sure that every file actually is an ISO and not perhaps a BIN/CUE or other. Eg, for Quake 1's game.cue and game.gog soundtrack files, the ".gog" file is a renamed BIN image not an ISO file.

2. Make sure you're burning the optical disc file system as ISO 9600 and not just "UDF 1.5". MSCDEX may have issues reading only the latter (that only came out during the post Windows 95 era).

3. Despite being known as "the place to get old games", in reality GOG place zero priority on maintaining actual "archival / preservation" grade releases in their original format. Eg, many 80's / 90's point & click adventure games that can now run under ScummVM have had their .exe's removed by GOG solely to force people to use Windows + ScummVM, so they no longer work at all under under MS-DOS / FreeDOS / DOSBox. I'll be honest here and simply say that if you're good at tweaking and / or finding "No-CD's" and want to run games in DOS, then you may be far better off sourcing original discs off Ebay / "Abadonware" versions than relying on GOG installers "preserving" their original format.
WOW ! Thx a lot !
Posted April 25, 2020
avatar
darkvamp1976: So I buy many games not yet in my list but also want to play them on the "Real" machine. I know that GOG is holding 99% of the Single CD games on a file called game.gog which is a normal iso but only renamed. I tried to rename the file and burn to CDR but only a very few are readable with DOS. Most are not. What do I wrong?
avatar
AB2012: All I can think of is:-

1. Make sure that every file actually is an ISO and not perhaps a BIN/CUE or other. Eg, for Quake 1's game.cue and game.gog soundtrack files, the ".gog" file is a renamed BIN image not an ISO file.
I think the DOS games are ALL ISO because the mounting in DOSBOX is only working with pure ISO files?
Posted April 25, 2020
I always had problems with CD-R plates, never with CD+R. Burn with a low speed, ISO9660, and never with plates higher/longer than 700MB/70min or with CD-RWs/CD+RWs (re-writeables).

Actually, your best option by miles is to find a DOS archive on torrent or some other place to get the original files. Like AB2012 wrote, GOG removes the original exe/com/bat files needed to run them on an original Win9x/DOS box.
Post edited April 25, 2020 by sanscript
Posted April 25, 2020
It will probably depend of the game. A lot of them only consist in a renamed ISO to GOG and it should be enough, but other could be a BIN CUE couple, and it should be both renamed accordingly.

But the problem is that some titles have the music tracks deleted from the isos and dosbox runs the music from a MUSIC folder, so, it could be a problem to run the game in an original retro computer, or a problem for the correct detection of the iso.

greetings
Posted April 25, 2020
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Gudadantza: But the problem is that some titles have the music tracks deleted from the isos and dosbox runs the music from a MUSIC folder, so, it could be a problem to run the game in an original retro computer, or a problem for the correct detection of the iso.

greetings
DOSBOX is DOS. It will not call music for games like Quake from a music folder. A third party client such as Quakespasm or one of the many others will and even that can vary where you have to put it.

DOSBOX will call music for Quake like DOS does from the CD or an image only. Sadly the current GOG version does not have this as they had to remove the music due to licence issues. (Unless they added it back, I don't keep up with it.)
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darkvamp1976: I think the DOS games are ALL ISO because the mounting in DOSBOX is only working with pure ISO files?
DOSBOX the program works with BIN/CUE images. You just have to mount the CUE image.

Native DOS is a different ballpark. For games like Redneck Rampage which is an enhanced audio CD ill always say get an original copy of the game and don't rely on GOG's versions as its been said above GOG tend to go out of their way to make them not work usually.

Also such as Quake the music got removed anyway so if you are using a newer GOG release then the music is not on there anyway. Where as the original retail CD will always have it.
Posted April 25, 2020
avatar
Gudadantza: But the problem is that some titles have the music tracks deleted from the isos and dosbox runs the music from a MUSIC folder, so, it could be a problem to run the game in an original retro computer, or a problem for the correct detection of the iso.

greetings
avatar
RoboPond: DOSBOX is DOS. It will not call music for games like Quake from a music folder. A third party client such as Quakespasm or one of the many others will and even that can vary where you have to put it.

DOSBOX will call music for Quake like DOS does from the CD or an image only. Sadly the current GOG version does not have this as they had to remove the music due to licence issues. (Unless they added it back, I don't keep up with it.)
avatar
darkvamp1976: I think the DOS games are ALL ISO because the mounting in DOSBOX is only working with pure ISO files?
avatar
RoboPond: DOSBOX the program works with BIN/CUE images. You just have to mount the CUE image.

Native DOS is a different ballpark. For games like Redneck Rampage which is an enhanced audio CD ill always say get an original copy of the game and don't rely on GOG's versions as its been said above GOG tend to go out of their way to make them not work usually.

Also such as Quake the music got removed anyway so if you are using a newer GOG release then the music is not on there anyway. Where as the original retail CD will always have it.
I can give you the example of Fantasy General.
Dosbox mounts game.gog and a game.ins being the respective bin cue combo in the xxxxsingle.conf configuration file. inside the game folder there is a MUSIC folder as well with ogg files.
If I delete that folder the game does not run at all. t crashes at launch. If I keep the folder, the game runs fine and plays the music.

So, DOSBOX uses that MUSIC folder in any critical way.
Posted April 25, 2020
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Gudadantza: I can give you the example of Fantasy General.
Dosbox mounts game.gog and a game.ins being the respective bin cue combo in the xxxxsingle.conf configuration file. inside the game folder there is a MUSIC folder as well with ogg files.
If I delete that folder the game does not run at all. t crashes at launch. If I keep the folder, the game runs fine and plays the music.

So, DOSBOX uses that MUSIC folder in any critical way.
Edit:

Rephrased

That game might be calling a music there originally and might not be an enhance audio CD. I ment it more that you cannot just create a new folder called music for games like Quake and expect it to work.

As Quake will not even in DOSBOX call music from C:\Quake\Music.

Edit 2:

Also OP i've just tried to open GOG's Redneck Rampage as a BIN/CUE and its not working at all. (Redneck has music which reads from the CD, so its a enhanced audio CD so a iso will not work with it.)

Where as my BIN/CUE of my original CDs work fine.
Post edited April 25, 2020 by RoboPond
Posted April 25, 2020
This is the text inside the game.ins in the Fantasy General title. It is Only an example. there is a lot of gog games like this.

FILE "game.gog" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "MUSIC\Track02.ogg" MP3
TRACK 02 AUDIO
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "MUSIC\Track03.ogg" MP3
...
...
... etc

Apparently the bin/cue or gog/ins mounting is just for technical reasons, without them, the game can not run.
The cue/ins file calls to a physical folder called MUSIC with ogg digtal tracks inside, emulating the original redbook audio or audio tracks.
Posted April 25, 2020
avatar
Gudadantza: This is the text inside the game.ins in the Fantasy General title. It is Only an example. there is a lot of gog games like this.

FILE "game.gog" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "MUSIC\Track02.ogg" MP3
TRACK 02 AUDIO
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "MUSIC\Track03.ogg" MP3
...
...
... etc

Apparently the bin/cue or gog/ins mounting is just for technical reasons, without them, the game can not run.
The cue/ins file calls to a physical folder called MUSIC with ogg digtal tracks inside, emulating the original redbook audio or audio tracks.
Yes so that's how it originally reads it.

What I from you was just slapping the music into a folder called music will work. It will not.

However you might be able to create your own using GOGs Quake (as an example) as a base. Using that system, and add the music back yourself.
Posted April 26, 2020
avatar
Gudadantza: This is the text inside the game.ins in the Fantasy General title. It is Only an example. there is a lot of gog games like this.

FILE "game.gog" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "MUSIC\Track02.ogg" MP3
TRACK 02 AUDIO
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "MUSIC\Track03.ogg" MP3
...
...
... etc

Apparently the bin/cue or gog/ins mounting is just for technical reasons, without them, the game can not run.
The cue/ins file calls to a physical folder called MUSIC with ogg digtal tracks inside, emulating the original redbook audio or audio tracks.
avatar
RoboPond: Yes so that's how it originally reads it.

What I from you was just slapping the music into a folder called music will work. It will not.

However you might be able to create your own using GOGs Quake (as an example) as a base. Using that system, and add the music back yourself.
The GOG DOS version of quake makes use of the traditional mode of reading tracks from the image directly. No Music folder needed. But of course it could be possible by editing the cue sheet and pointing to a music folder instead to the image tracks.

Of course, a simple music folder called MUSIC without the mounting of the respective cue sheet calling to that folder and files should not be enough, so if is that what you meant, you are right.

The advantange of using the MUSIC Folder method is just for compression and space reasons. And for easily editing of the tracks. But the tradeoff is more cpu use in the dosbox emulation.
Post edited April 26, 2020 by Gudadantza
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionPlaying GOG games on real Retro DOS PC(16 posts)(16 posts)
(16 posts)