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In every way, we tried to take what people loved about Planescape: Torment and push it even further.

Planescape: Torment has a sequel now (okay, so that feels pretty great to say). Technically it's a "thematic sequel", in practice it is every bit the followup to one of the greatest video game stories ever told.
Just as importantly, both Planescape: Torment and Torment: Tides of Numenera were designed and brought to life by some of the very same creative minds. This week, we had a chat with two of those minds: Colin McComb – Torment's Creative Lead – and Adam Heine – Torment's Design Lead – to explore the connections between the games, as well as their own experiences working on two sister projects decades apart.





Let's start with the most important thing: can you tell us about yourselves, and your roles in Tides of Numenera and Planescape: Torment?

COLIN: I am the creative lead for Torment: Tides of Numenera, which means I’m responsible for the overall narrative, major characters, and vision. That is not to say that I did this all myself, mind you! People like Adam, Chris, George, Kevin, and Nathan were all extraordinarily helpful in the early drafts of the story and in focusing our attention on how to deliver the proper player experience.
On Planescape: Torment, I was the second designer on the project – when the PS:T team was ready to move into production, I came aboard.

ADAM: As Torment's design lead, my primary role is to design, or oversee design, for the various gameplay systems—everything from combat to conversations to items to companion attitudes. I also designed a few areas within the game and, like Colin, wrote a good chunk of conversations.

On Planescape: Torment, I was a scripter responsible for implementing the areas of the game, including combat AIs and scripted cutscenes.





So, what's the coolest thing you got to work on for either game?

COLIN: Well, getting to shape the story for Torment: Tides of Numenera was definitely the high point. Being involved from start to finish was a huge privilege and a great treat. For PS:T? I’d say either writing the Smoldering Corpse bar or writing Trias’s final dialogue.

ADAM: My favorite part of working on Planescape: Torment was figuring out how to make cranium rats smarter and more deadly as more of them appeared on-screen.

On Numenera, the coolest thing I got to work on was Pat Rothfuss's character Rhin. She intentionally breaks several RPG companion tropes, and it was really interesting trying to figure out how to make her fun and sympathetic without frustrating the player's expectations of her. Discussing story, character, and games with Pat was an additional, extremely pleasant bonus.





Planescape: Torment asked “What can change the nature of man?” Torment: Tides of Numenera asks "What does one life matter?" So why these questions, and what makes the answers important?

COLIN: These are fundamental philosophical questions. Chris created the thematic question for Planescape: Torment, and it resonated strongly with our players. We thought that was one of the strongest appeals for our game – the question that would help our players explore the issues in their own lives. These are ongoing questions – they don’t require you to find the answer and then live by it for the rest of your life. You can come back at different stages of your life and find new nuances and fresh perspectives each time you ask, and each time the question will reward you.






The two Torment games explore morality decades apart from each other. So what's your take on how morality has changed in video games, and did you bring any of these modern ideas into Tides of Numenera?

ADAM: Tides of Numenera absolutely explores morality and shades of gray. One of our conventions from the very start—for both conversations and quests—is that there should almost never be an obvious "best solution." If there's a crazed lunatic holding open a portal to hell, maybe you can kill him, trick him into killing himself, or convince him to live with the pain that caused him to open the portal in the first place, but there's no easy option where he realizes he's wrong and becomes a good, happy person.

I think Torment: Tides of Numenera takes morality a step further than Planescape: Torment in that there is no good/evil dichotomy built into the system. Whether it's explicit or not, a lot of RPGs are subconsciously built around D&D's alignment system—I've yet to meet an RPG designer whose first inclination is not to think in terms of good/evil/lawful/chaotic. That inclination is something we had to fight against on TTON as well, and certainly you'll find situations here and there where you're asked to make a choice between right and wrong, but much more often you will find your choices are more nuanced than that, where you're forced to make hard decisions about people's lives.






Are there parts of Tides of Numenera that you see as a direct evolution of Planescape: Torment? Anything you set out to do better?

COLIN: We explicitly drew our major design pillars from PS:T – a world unlike any other; a deep, personal story (not an epic save the world quest, but a personal narrative); and choice, consequence, and reactivity. We wanted to honor the strange and alien feel of a living world that is unlike anything else on the market today, and we wanted to ensure that the player would feel the story’s direction is a direct consequence of the choices he or she made throughout the game.

ADAM: TTON's combat system represents the greatest departure from Planescape: Torment. It was generally felt that PS:T's combat system was the least interesting part of the game, so we steered combat hard in the opposite direction: turn-based instead of real-time, hand-crafted scenarios instead of filler trash mobs, and the vast majority of fights are avoidable if you say or do the right thing. The result is less combat than you would expect in an RPG, but it's tied to the narrative and far more interesting.

On the other side, conversations and companion arcs will be very familiar to Torment fans. Our conversation system is intentionally designed to look and feel like PS:T, though even there we made a few improvements. The Nano's Scan Thoughts ability, for example, allows you to read the surface thoughts of virtually every NPC you meet, giving you additional insight into their character and story. We pushed companion arcs, too, to the point where a few of them can resolve their storyline—and leave the party forever—before you even reach the end, if you so choose. In every way, we tried to take what people loved about PS:T and push it even further.






Finally, for the biggest fans, the games are connected in so many ways – can we expect any cameos from Planescape: Torment in Tides of Numenera?

COLIN: Yes indeed! We didn’t want the game to be a bunch of in-jokes, but we also seeded a few direct references, and some that were less obvious.

ADAM: Due to IP constraints, there are (almost) no straight-up cameos, but there are a lot of nods to the original. Every single one of our writers is a huge fan of PS:T, and although Colin, George, and I were pretty strict about not letting anyone break the fourth wall, Torment fans will find much to love.
Post edited March 03, 2017 by Konrad
Let's pop this onto the forum.
For everyone saying that PS:T had terrible combat - this game has managed to make it worse.
This is awesome!!
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benzeneboy: For everyone saying that PS:T had terrible combat - this game has managed to make it worse.
Would you please elaborate?
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mecharma: This is awesome!!
[*Paid actor.]
=P
i'd just like to say that the biggest issue i have with numenera is it's title screen. i'm well aware of how goofy that sounds and know it's a total nitpick, but it's true. planescape's title screen was distinct and had an otherworldly-industrial vibe going on with a percussion-heavy main theme. the main menu itself encircled the visage of the lady of pain while rusted pipes and alien architecture filled out the rest of the scene. it set the tone for the game.

numenera's title screen is just blackness with some wavy blue beams of plasma radiating out from behind a very 'unity-esque' looking main menu with a decent but unmemorable song playing in the background.

i think a good, catchy main theme is soooooo much more important than most devs seem to think it is. the music is one of the main things that pushes itself to the forefront of my mind when i think of an amazing gaming experience.
This is amazing!!
Issue has been resolved, nothing to see here.
Post edited March 05, 2017 by MaGo72
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MaGo72: While this person has only the BASE GAME and GETS A KEY UPGRADE TO THE IMMORTAL EDITON

"Originally my backer portal section only had the vanilla key, so I sent support a message asking for the Immortal version. Before I could get a response (or perhaps it was in response), today they added the upgrade. My only other concern is the Backer Outfit Upgrade key that only appears to offer a Steam option. Anyone know what the deal with that is?""
Hm, that sounds exactly like my case. When Torment came out, the only key I had in the torment site was for the backer edition. Later on, they added an immortal upgrade and a backer outfit too. Could that have something to do with the fact that I'm an oddity collector?

The person who posted that didn't say at what level they had backed the kickstarter. All of us started with just the basic backer edition, but those of us with a high enough pledge did get an upgrade.
And after all, you do have access to the items to download and use as you please, just not on GOG.
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fortune_p_dawg: i think a good, catchy main theme is soooooo much more important than most devs seem to think it is. the music is one of the main things that pushes itself to the forefront of my mind when i think of an amazing gaming experience.
Indeed. When I replayed Legend of Grimrock 2 recently that main menu theme music got to me every time. It's totally getting me amped up and excited to go adventuring and beat the shit out of some monsters. Yeah, baby!
Post edited March 03, 2017 by mistermumbles
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MaGo72: While this person has only the BASE GAME and GETS A KEY UPGRADE TO THE IMMORTAL EDITON

"Originally my backer portal section only had the vanilla key, so I sent support a message asking for the Immortal version. Before I could get a response (or perhaps it was in response), today they added the upgrade. My only other concern is the Backer Outfit Upgrade key that only appears to offer a Steam option. Anyone know what the deal with that is?""
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JMich: Hm, that sounds exactly like my case. When Torment came out, the only key I had in the torment site was for the backer edition. Later on, they added an immortal upgrade and a backer outfit too. Could that have something to do with the fact that I'm an oddity collector?

The person who posted that didn't say at what level they had backed the kickstarter. All of us started with just the basic backer edition, but those of us with a high enough pledge did get an upgrade.
And after all, you do have access to the items to download and use as you please, just not on GOG.
The point is, many companies are quite volatile and it is good to have your stuff in one place where you know that it will be there for a long time. The second point is, I do not want to collect my stuff from several sites if I need to download them again. It bugs me like hell that I would have probably had to spend only 4-5 € more to get a key with my rewards here on GOG.

And with owning six from nine rewards the closest edtion would be the Immortal Edition, not the base game.
Post edited March 03, 2017 by MaGo72
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MaGo72: Instead of spreading visibility for your 1 year + overdue game which finally hit the shelf, you should perhaps sort your upgrade policies for backers out.

I wrote to the InXile support that I have only the base version of the game on GOG, but backed a bundle of strategy guide etc etc. and like to have an upgrade so that I have game and other items in on place.

Support answer:
"...we can't offer our rewards on Steam or GOG directly, we have to give them out as the closest store package, but not all our backer rewards map 1:1 with the store versions.".

Well I look at the editions and I own 6 of 9 items of the Immortal Edition only missing map, novel and concept arts. So I wrote again to the support if they could please upgrade my key since I own most of the stuff in the immortal edition and it is the closest edition.

Support answer:
"Thanks for asking! Unfortunately, we do not have any store editions that match up with your reward level. That said, you can still get all of your rewards on our backer web site."

While this person has only the BASE GAME and GETS A KEY UPGRADE TO THE IMMORTAL EDITON

"Originally my backer portal section only had the vanilla key, so I sent support a message asking for the Immortal version. Before I could get a response (or perhaps it was in response), today they added the upgrade. My only other concern is the Backer Outfit Upgrade key that only appears to offer a Steam option. Anyone know what the deal with that is?""

Seriously, I backed a game with serveral Items AND DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THOSE IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

Eat my .... My last game I backed for InXile.

Yeah I can upgrade my base key here and pay 45€ for 9 items from which I HAVE 6. F You Mr. E

Be aware guys if you ever back an InXile game that ths can happen also to you - you get a base game key and that is it, the other stuff is somewhere on another site, if you back three games you get probably 3 base keys and have 3 sites to get your other stuff from. While other people who do not have that many rewards get their upgrades.
I also want to say that maybe your anger towards InXile is misplaced:

I backed on a level called Lore Seeker (to my information, that was equivalent of "Complete Digital Collection"), and I got the Immortal Edition upgrade, just as others.

Actually Lore Seeker contains few items more than Immortal Edition (ringtones and some such) so I was more than applicable for this edition.
Reason why I got the upgrade is that this IS the closest edition - meant as "closest rounded down" - of course they won´t give you key with items you haven´t paid for - you said it yourself, that you were missing few items to have full Immortal Edition, therefore you didn´t get the key.

Also, you might have noticed that InXile has actually learned from their mistakes some time ago - both campaigns for Bard´s Tale and Wasteland 3 didn´t had so many different editions like Torment did - exactly for same reason - it would be easier to offer coherent editions to different backers later on.

Obsidian actually announced it during their Fig campaign for PoE II that there would be Complete Digital Edition, making it clear to people that if they would back the game at this level, they would get everything.

So I would say you´re not applicable for Immortal edition, but for the Legacy Edition.
I would ask InXile about upgrade for that one.
Post edited March 03, 2017 by Tarhiel
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MaGo72: Instead of spreading visibility for your 1 year + overdue game which finally hit the shelf, you should perhaps sort your upgrade policies for backers out.

I wrote to the InXile support that I have only the base version of the game on GOG, but backed a bundle of strategy guide etc etc. and like to have an upgrade so that I have game and other items in on place.

Support answer:
"...we can't offer our rewards on Steam or GOG directly, we have to give them out as the closest store package, but not all our backer rewards map 1:1 with the store versions.".

Well I look at the editions and I own 6 of 9 items of the Immortal Edition only missing map, novel and concept arts. So I wrote again to the support if they could please upgrade my key since I own most of the stuff in the immortal edition and it is the closest edition.

Support answer:
"Thanks for asking! Unfortunately, we do not have any store editions that match up with your reward level. That said, you can still get all of your rewards on our backer web site."

While this person has only the BASE GAME and GETS A KEY UPGRADE TO THE IMMORTAL EDITON

"Originally my backer portal section only had the vanilla key, so I sent support a message asking for the Immortal version. Before I could get a response (or perhaps it was in response), today they added the upgrade. My only other concern is the Backer Outfit Upgrade key that only appears to offer a Steam option. Anyone know what the deal with that is?""

Seriously, I backed a game with serveral Items AND DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THOSE IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

Eat my .... My last game I backed for InXile.

Yeah I can upgrade my base key here and pay 45€ for 9 items from which I HAVE 6. F You Mr. E

Be aware guys if you ever back an InXile game that ths can happen also to you - you get a base game key and that is it, the other stuff is somewhere on another site, if you back three games you get probably 3 base keys and have 3 sites to get your other stuff from. While other people who do not have that many rewards get their upgrades.
avatar
Tarhiel: I also want to say that maybe your anger towards InXile is misplaced:

I backed on a level called Lore Seeker (to my information, that was equivalent of "Complete Digital Collection"), and I got the Immortal Edition upgrade, just as others.

Actually Lore Seeker contains few items more than Immortal Edition (ringtones and some such) so I was more than applicable for this edition.
Reason why I got the upgrade is that this IS the closest edition - meant as "closest rounded down" - of course they won´t give you key with items you haven´t paid for - you said it yourself, that you were missing few items to have full Immortal Edition, therefore you didn´t get the key.

Also, you might have noticed that InXile has actually learned from their mistakes some time ago - both campaigns for Bard´s Tale and Wasteland 3 didn´t had so many different editions like Torment did - exactly for same reason - it would be easier to offer coherent editions to different backers later on.

Obsidian actually announced it during their Fig campaign for PoE II that there would be Complete Digital Edition, making it clear to people that if they would back the game at this level, they would get everything.
It is great that they have learned for their later kickstarters, but that does not change the fact that I only got the base game although I have the soundtrack, wallpapers, ringtones etc.. Guess it is a bad time to argue with me, I am pissed like hell.
Post edited March 03, 2017 by MaGo72
avatar
Tarhiel: I also want to say that maybe your anger towards InXile is misplaced:

I backed on a level called Lore Seeker (to my information, that was equivalent of "Complete Digital Collection"), and I got the Immortal Edition upgrade, just as others.

Actually Lore Seeker contains few items more than Immortal Edition (ringtones and some such) so I was more than applicable for this edition.
Reason why I got the upgrade is that this IS the closest edition - meant as "closest rounded down" - of course they won´t give you key with items you haven´t paid for - you said it yourself, that you were missing few items to have full Immortal Edition, therefore you didn´t get the key.

Also, you might have noticed that InXile has actually learned from their mistakes some time ago - both campaigns for Bard´s Tale and Wasteland 3 didn´t had so many different editions like Torment did - exactly for same reason - it would be easier to offer coherent editions to different backers later on.

Obsidian actually announced it during their Fig campaign for PoE II that there would be Complete Digital Edition, making it clear to people that if they would back the game at this level, they would get everything.
avatar
MaGo72: It is great that they have learned for their later kickstarters, but that does not change the fact that I only got the base game although I have the soundtrack, wallpapers, ringtones etc.. Guess it is a bad time to argue with me, I am pissed like hell.
I understand.

Though from what you said, I would say you´re eligible for the Legacy Edition.
I would ask InXile about upgrade for that one.