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General discussionPC Build - Ryzen or i7?(45 posts)(45 posts)
(45 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 23, 2019
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pds41: - MadalinStroe - your answer was very clear and I apologise for not reading it in enough detail before posting! If I get a 3600 and a better cooler, given I'm terrified of overclocking, is there a way to get added performance without voiding my warranty?
If you get better cooling for the Ryzen CPUs, you don't have to manually overclock them. The CPUs automatically clock themselves higher when needed. That is one of the innovations brought by the zen+ and zen2 generations. In fact most of the recent manual overclocking efforts for Ryzen 3000 lead to a small decrease in gaming performance, when contrasted to the automatic overclocking.
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pds41: ...Will probably move it into a separate case and use as a spare machine...
That's exactly what I've been considering doing with my current build. I already plan to get a smaller htpc case for it.
I have a Ryzen 1300x and I'm looking to upgrade to ryzen 3600 now, and as an end of life for the platform, a ryzen 4000 when that is launched.
Post edited July 23, 2019 by MadalinStroe
Posted July 23, 2019
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SpeedBo: That being said, whatever you go with it will be a huge difference. A chip from 2012 just isn't going to compare to anything out right now.
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MadalinStroe: So you went from a FX-8350, which is was known to be a sub-par architecture, directly to a i7-8700 and were surprised by the performance difference?
I guess you didn't read what I said about 8350 being old.

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MadalinStroe: It's unfortunate you didn't make the jump to intel sooner, since now Intel is in free fall(and won't have a new architecture until 2021), while zen2+(which is a refresh) will launch next year perfectly backwards compatible with the current AM4 socket.
I have no plans to upgrade within 2 years.


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MadalinStroe: Having said that:
Are the current Intel chips still competitive with AMD? Absolutely!
Are the current Intel chips overpriced like all hell when compared to AMD's CPUs? ...we all know the answer to that.
They're more than just competitive, AMD is just starting to catch up.
Posted July 23, 2019
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pds41: Yep - had it since 2012. Will probably move it into a separate case and use as a spare machine, but it's approaching its last legs - and the VRMs on my motherboard are overheating and causing throttling, despite having huge fans that push air down on to the board. Mainly bought it because at the time I couldn't afford to go intel, and for the price it seems reasonable. Obviously everything is more expensive now (my GTX 660 only cost about £120 at the time as well!)
Golden age of pc building back there. Today a 2060 card will cost 300+.
Those Fx are electric drunk boys. The reason I sold my old Athlon x4 860k + Hd7770 was because I hooked on a Watt meter and saw 200+W playing CSGO. ( cant stand high power wasting)
I can imagine a FX 8 core pulling 250W+ by itself fully loaded... Idling/light load power consumption is probably double a similar Intel cpu at that time. No wonder some FX models fried motherboards...
Nowadays Ryzen are more efficient than Intel fully load or idling, how things change.
Posted July 23, 2019
some people jsut cant take it that AMD is actually doing better than intel, my ryzen is an old one i might upgrade soon if i see how much t hey are, but ive never used intel, i dislike there business practices and them always having rediculous prices for there hardware.

when i get my next GPU i think il go with ATI cos currently i have a 1060 but it seems nvidia and intel are getting very greedy, could be to all these streamers with infinite cash and sponsors making them that way who knows
Posted July 23, 2019
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Dark_art_: The reason I sold my old Athlon x4 860k + Hd7770 was because I hooked on a Watt meter and saw 200+W playing CSGO. ( cant stand high power wasting)
Thats just a bit more than mine idling :P
Posted July 23, 2019
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MadalinStroe: So you went from a FX-8350, which is was known to be a sub-par architecture, directly to a i7-8700 and were surprised by the performance difference?
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SpeedBo: I guess you didn't read what I said about 8350 being old.

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MadalinStroe: It's unfortunate you didn't make the jump to intel sooner, since now Intel is in free fall(and won't have a new architecture until 2021), while zen2+(which is a refresh) will launch next year perfectly backwards compatible with the current AM4 socket.
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SpeedBo: I have no plans to upgrade within 2 years.

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MadalinStroe: Having said that:
Are the current Intel chips still competitive with AMD? Absolutely!
Are the current Intel chips overpriced like all hell when compared to AMD's CPUs? ...we all know the answer to that.
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SpeedBo: They're more than just competitive, AMD is just starting to catch up.
1. Yes, I read what you wrote, which is why I said/tried to say that even when the FX-8350 was new, the benchmarks made it clear that the architecture was sub-par.
2. Now that you have an i7-8700 of course you shouldn't upgrade. You've already placed your chips. The Ryzen 3000 and upcoming Ryzen 4000 are slightly better for gaming than an i7-8700, but they are nowhere near that far ahead to warrant an upgrade. In fact, your i7-8700 should be more than capable to keep you gaming for the next 5 years, if not more.
3. That just isn't true. At least not at the same price, and definitely not when it come to the i7-8700.
Post edited July 23, 2019 by MadalinStroe
Posted July 23, 2019
Eh, my system draws over 400W while playing.... not a good thing at all but worse is well over 100W when idle. I need to move to more modern hardware soon.
Posted July 23, 2019
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Themken: Eh, my system draws over 400W while playing.... not a good thing at all but worse is well over 100W when idle. I need to move to more modern hardware soon.
Or buy a better power supply. :p
Posted July 23, 2019
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PainOfSalvation: Or buy a better power supply. :p
True I could save a bit in power then but the cost is prohibitive with 1% (450W/100=4.5W...) better costing €130. I got this 80+ gold power supply for a mere €50, brand introductionary price I presume now and hoped when I bought it. Price jumped to almost the double just days after I got it. When my current PSU dies, I might go for better than 80+ gold, ie platinum but now it is not worth switching.
Posted July 24, 2019
I chose Ryzen because more and more modern games use the greater threads of those processors, and they're much cheaper than Intel for roughly the same performance otherwise. Especially the new 3000 chips, which are barely behind in games that use less cores/threads. However if you want the absolute best gaming CPU performance you can get in July of 2019 you'll still need to pay up for a high-end Intel chip.

Basically if you're building a mid-range machine with a 2060/70 or AMD 5700 then it makes much more sense to get the Ryzen 3600 or 3700 I think. If you're building a top of the line rig with a 2080ti for 4k gaming, then you might still want to get the i9 9900k or whatever it's called over the Ryzen 3900x.
Posted July 24, 2019
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hedwards: TBH, it really depends what chips you're buying and when you're buying. AMD has been ahead of Intel multiple times over the last 20 years and they always find a way of violating antitrust laws in order to maintain their position.
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MadalinStroe: They who? I think you mean Intel violets antitrust laws, but from your text it comes across, that AMD violets antitrust laws
You're correct, that's an indefinite pronoun where I really should have written Intel for clarity.
Posted July 24, 2019
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Themken: [I might go for better than 80+ gold, ie platinum but now it is not worth switching.
No need to go higher than gold. The efficiency gains are really small and cost is quite high IMHO.

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Themken: Eh, my system draws over 400W while playing.... not a good thing at all but worse is well over 100W when idle. I need to move to more modern hardware soon.
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ignisferroque: Thats just a bit more than mine idling :P
O.o

Dark_art_ leaves the chat...
Post edited July 24, 2019 by Dark_art_
Posted July 24, 2019
You already got ample answers from MadalinStroe, Dark_art_ and AB2012. So you really don't need a X570 mobo for gaming, but look for previous generation, B450 or X470. I would recommend MSI B450 TOMAHAWK or MSI B450M MORTAR (if you want mATX). These are very good boards, with good VRM and good radiator on it, while also having the BIOS Flashback Button function which allows to update the BIOS without a CPU installed. If you are not in a hurry, you might want wait a little bit and get the MAX revision of MSI boards. Here is a reddit thread with more info about B450/X470 mobos and their VRM.

Personally, I would not go for 3700X, or above, just for gaming. The 3600(X) is perfect for that, along with a good aftermarket cooler (be quiet! or Noctua). Here, the price difference between 3600 and 3700X it's exactly a nice 1 TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD.

As for memory, 32GB of 3200MHz CL16 is all you need. Going for more expensive CL14 or CL15 is not worth it, as the difference in games won't be more than a couple of FPS.
Posted July 26, 2019
I've just came across a youtube video with some pretty decent content on the subject.
While is not my style of information, it does have a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF8EuEfKH3Q

For those who prefer not to open youtube, some "youtuber" paired a AMD Ryzen 3600 with a A320 board (Gigabyte A320M-H) and it worked just fine. It's pretty much one of the cheapest Ryzen boards I can find in my country.
It has some drawbacks but it worked pretty good for gaming.
While I woudln't choose this board, I am not a fan of choosing a high-end board for gaming builds, specifically with CPU's that will not be overclocked (most newer Ryzen stuff there is no point to OC).
There are a lot of "features" on higher end boards that may never be used, some of them are even detrimental to performance, like those advertised huge, anti-efficiency VRM's (let's call them that way). They usually don't come in mini-ATX as well.

While is not my point that we all should run the cheapest board we can find, it may open some options for people like the OP, who just want to build a gaming PC. Most "internet" information is to buy a big board, with big VRM and it's not allways the best choice, I guess it's pretty much like asking a hardware question in a random forum where the answer is invariable Get a new PC!
Posted July 26, 2019
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Dark_art_: I've just came across a youtube video with some pretty decent content on the subject.
While is not my style of information, it does have a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF8EuEfKH3Q

For those who prefer not to open youtube, some "youtuber" paired a AMD Ryzen 3600 with a A320 board (Gigabyte A320M-H) and it worked just fine. It's pretty much one of the cheapest Ryzen boards I can find in my country.
It has some drawbacks but it worked pretty good for gaming.
While I woudln't choose this board, I am not a fan of choosing a high-end board for gaming builds, specifically with CPU's that will not be overclocked (most newer Ryzen stuff there is no point to OC).
There are a lot of "features" on higher end boards that may never be used, some of them are even detrimental to performance, like those advertised huge, anti-efficiency VRM's (let's call them that way). They usually don't come in mini-ATX as well.

While is not my point that we all should run the cheapest board we can find, it may open some options for people like the OP, who just want to build a gaming PC. Most "internet" information is to buy a big board, with big VRM and it's not allways the best choice, I guess it's pretty much like asking a hardware question in a random forum where the answer is invariable Get a new PC!
My advice in getting a Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite which should be $250, comes for the following thinking: when I buy a platform, I intend on having it usable for the next 10 years. At one point during that time, things will start dragging down the platform, CPU/GPU/SSD/RAM. It's better to have a stable motherboard/PSU which will allow you the equip an end of life CPU(zen2+) later on, than buying a cheaper motherboard, only to discover that it might end up not supporting future(but same socket) CPUs, because the manufacturer cut some costs.

For example, the older 300 and 400 motherboards have a smaller, 16MB EEPROM chip for BIOS, in order to cut down on costs. And it turns out that 16MB is "barely enough"/"too small" to add support for Ryzen 3000 CPUs. So now the motherboard manufacturers are cutting BIOS features, in order to get Ryzen 3000 CPUs to work on those
motherboards. Who knows what's going to happen when Ryzen 4000 gets launched.
Post edited July 26, 2019 by MadalinStroe
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General discussionPC Build - Ryzen or i7?(45 posts)(45 posts)
(45 posts)