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General discussionOn RPGs and Walkthroughs(50 posts)(50 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 29, 2015
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Kardwill: I played Baldur's Gate one without a walkthrough, and it's one of the few RPGs I finished. sure, I did some exploity stuff (like rerolling if my HP gain for a level was too low), and it's a game where you will totally abuse the save/reload function, but it can be done without any kind of guide.
Huge part of problem here, is that if you use walkthrough and be done with party setup asap, you will avoid big part of those save/loads because of insufficient stats. I also played it first without guide and I was quite upset when people were leaving my party on a whim, because I didn't rush to save Dynaheir or decided that Nashkel can wait.

Playing with walkthrough also means you can use less "exploits" (aka turning your group into 6 archers and summon nuking) and play more of actual game. Going through spiders' zone, where single poison can kill your character in seconds, +-Max HP and proper proficiencies mean difference between 40-60 reloads and 2-3 reloads.
Posted October 29, 2015
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Kardwill: I played Baldur's Gate one without a walkthrough, and it's one of the few RPGs I finished. sure, I did some exploity stuff (like rerolling if my HP gain for a level was too low), and it's a game where you will totally abuse the save/reload function, but it can be done without any kind of guide.
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Sarisio: Huge part of problem here, is that if you use walkthrough and be done with party setup asap, you will avoid big part of those save/loads because of insufficient stats. I also played it first without guide and I was quite upset when people were leaving my party on a whim, because I didn't rush to save Dynaheir or decided that Nashkel can wait.
Happened to me. I reloaded a prior save and went to save Dinaheir. But to be honest, it was all my fault. It was pretty obvious you had to go help her as fast as you could. Minsk made it very obvious. It's just we are so used to take our sweet time for everything in CRPGs, that we don't believe in urgency anymore.

"Yeah, the princess is being sacrified to beings from the nether realms just on the other side of that wall, but it won't trigger before I open the door, so I'll check those random barrels and take a nap first. Oh, and maybe make a quick shopping trip to the nearest town, to resell my loot, since the high priest is probably loaded with stuff and I need some space in my inventory"

It's a way of thinking that has become instinctive when I play computer "RPGs", and it's one of the reasons I don't "click" with the genre as much as I did in the past (or as much as I still love "real" tabletop RPGs, with a GM to instill the illusion I'm in a real world and not just in a jumble of scripts)
Posted October 29, 2015
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Kardwill: Happened to me. I reloaded a prior save and went to save Dinaheir. But to be honest, it was all my fault. It was pretty obvious you had to go help her as fast as you could. Minsk made it very obvious. It's just we are so used to take our sweet time for everything in CRPGs, that we don't believe in urgency anymore.
I don't think it is because we are used to it. Party is core of party-based RPGs. I don't remember a single RPG before BG1, which would allow so much party shenanigans. Control over the party should be in the hands of player. No "ifs", no "buts", no stinky timed quests which drive party members away from you in droves :)
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Kardwill: "Yeah, the princess is being sacrified to beings from the nether realms just on the other side of that wall, but it won't trigger before I open the door, so I'll check those random barrels and take a nap first. Oh, and maybe make a quick shopping trip to the nearest town, to resell my loot, since the high priest is probably loaded with stuff and I need some space in my inventory"
Too much "realism" in video games usually goes against gameplay. Thankfully, it is just video game, so you don't need to manage defecation and wash-time of your characters as well as sleep regime, washing clothes, etc. I wonder why it doesn't break "immersion" for some people that their characters never wash themselves and their clothes?:)
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Kardwill: It's a way of thinking that has become instinctive when I play computer "RPGs", and it's one of the reasons I don't "click" with the genre as much as I did in the past (or as much as I still love "real" tabletop RPGs, with a GM to instill the illusion I'm in a real world and not just in a jumble of scripts)
That's because tabletop RPGs =/= CRPGs. Tabletop RPGs is just way to drink beer with friends and pretend you are something else than what you are. CRPGs are abstract models just like chess, but with more visualisation factors and distinctive mechanics. Unlike tabletop games, people play CRPGs for their gameplay and not to role play someone. When you will start looking at CRPGs as games about exploration of dungeons, getting loot and powering-up your characters instead of "role playing" something, you might like this genre more.
Posted October 29, 2015
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Sarisio: Tabletop RPGs is just way to drink beer with friends and pretend you are something else than what you are.
They can be much more (Although the purely social aspect of them is a big part of their appeal), and can be enjoyed for their immersion, shared creation or pure gameplay elements, too. But that's kinda off topic ^^

For c"RPG", I know they are mostly gameplay gimmicks. But that realization is precisely what breaks the immersion I have in the story and characters. And without this immersion, the game becomes repetitive and loses its appeal on the long run. I think that's why longer RPGs are not as fun as they used to be : I end up seeing through their illusion, especially when I make a long pause and get "out" of the characters, and the gameplay powering them fails to grab my interest on its own for dozens (hundreds?) of hours.

That's why I like when a game throws me a curve ball, like the in-party fights of BG1 : It reinforces the impression that those characters are more than a few stats and a pixellated model. Helps maintain the illusion just a little longer. :)
Post edited October 29, 2015 by Kardwill
Posted November 10, 2015
I usually use a walkthrough to get past stuff that I am stuck with. If the game is causing problems in early game with stuff like that, I usually dont play game anymore.

Fallout 3 & Divine Divinity are perfect examples. In F3 you cant get past GNR radio to do mission for 3 dog. The map doesnt allow you to go south. Divine Divinity was just too hard at least I thought so. The game should progress correctly and I shouldnt be dying to regular enemies. I think the game was not balanced with survivor versus warrior. There is no reason to use a survivor as the class is useless. Warrior is better at bow, mweapons and everything while survivor is jack of all trades with master at nothing.

Oblivion and Morrowind are my favorites and I spent many hours with those games. I have skyrim but havent played yet. Open World usually is great but depends on the setting and difficulty. I guess if the game is good and not crappy then I dont care if I have to look something up.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionOn RPGs and Walkthroughs(50 posts)(50 posts)
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