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General discussionOn RPGs and Walkthroughs(50 posts)(50 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 28, 2015
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Falci: The point I want to make is that walkthroughs help me enjoy RPGs much more, but I think I’m a bit tired of having to keep alt+tabing into them constantly and following them through.
Specifically about alt-tabbing, you might want to consider getting a cheap tablet. Then you can read the walkthrough on the tablet while playing on the PC. Just an idea.
Post edited October 28, 2015 by mrkgnao
Posted October 28, 2015
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markrichardb: If you’re always afraid of missing out on something, how can you enjoy what you have? The RPG choices I’ve made may not always have been optimal, but at least they were mine.
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Breja: I'm not a completionist. I find it to be against the very idea of roleplaying, it's meta and it's artificial. I want to play as my character.
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markrichardb: Basically this. Using a cookbook for RPGs goes against the spirit. I understand the church of completionism can be comforting, but there are plenty of games that cater specifically to that urge. Shadows of Mordor, Assassin’s Creed, the Arkham games, Mad Max, etc.
I'm the same as both of you. I never use a walkthrough and prefer to live with the consequences of my actions. Occasionally I might test out a story path out of curiosity, but generally I try to be my character(s) :)
Posted October 28, 2015
Walkthroughs CAN suck the fun out of games, but they serve a purpose. If you're stuck and think you've tried everything possible in order to get through that part, sometimes a walkthrough is your only savior. Example: I'm stuck in The Witcher and have been all over the explorable parts of the world a couple times and simply can not trigger whatever it is that's necessary to move the story along. Do I quit the game, keep poking around the same places for eternity, or consult a guide to help me figure out where things got screwed up?
Posted October 28, 2015
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markrichardb: If you’re always afraid of missing out on something, how can you enjoy what you have? The RPG choices I’ve made may not always have been optimal, but at least they were mine.

Basically this. Using a cookbook for RPGs goes against the spirit. I understand the church of completionism can be comforting, but there are plenty of games that cater specifically to that urge. Shadows of Mordor, Assassin’s Creed, the Arkham games, Mad Max, etc.
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Tarnicus: I'm the same as both of you. I never use a walkthrough and prefer to live with the consequences of my actions. Occasionally I might test out a story path out of curiosity, but generally I try to be my character(s) :)
I call bullshit. Its almost impossible to beat a rpg without at least consulting hintbook a bit. Games like wizardry, You cannot get past without major stuff that helps. The jrpgs are also mandatory to get past at least some of it with guide. I would be surprised if anyone got past ANY rpg with at least a bit of help. Or they could be japanese, heh.
Posted October 28, 2015
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valdaintheking: I call bullshit. Its almost impossible to beat a rpg without at least consulting hintbook a bit. Games like wizardry, You cannot get past without major stuff that helps. The jrpgs are also mandatory to get past at least some of it with guide. I would be surprised if anyone got past ANY rpg with at least a bit of help. Or they could be japanese, heh.
The majority of my RPG playing days were before the internet and I would never pay money for a cluebook.
Posted October 28, 2015
I find that walkthroughs are great for getting past moments of questionable logic, but that they ruin the experience for me somewhat if I start to rely on them. Once I stopped using them while playing, I started getting more comfortable and savvy with my decisions in-game, and now I can't imagine following them except to get past those occasional moments of stuck-ness. I think it's all about making peace with the idea of missing some things and learning to focus on enjoying games in the moment rather than squeezing every last secret out of them.
Posted October 28, 2015
Not really walkthrough per se, but I always read a few class/job/stat build FAQs before building my characters/party. I can live with bad decisions in RPGs, but I hate it when I chose the 'wrong' skill or the useless class without having the ability to respec.
Posted October 28, 2015
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Falci: Has anyone else here experienced the same problem or something similar?
I fond walkthroughs enhance my game experience a lot as well. But I don't suffer from the Alt+Tab issue since I have 2 computers networked (side by side), so I have one monitor with the walkthrough on it while I play through the game on the other.
Posted October 28, 2015
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OldFatGuy: The "problem" isn't walkthroughs. The "problem" is that RPG's, in general, have just gotten "too damn big."
Never!!!! Well, I mean sure, some are too long, some are too short, but, the vastness and length and depth and width of an RPG, if it has GOOD content for it, could be 500 hours and I'd be very happy.

Some of my favorite book series are 5 or 10+ books in length, there is just that much going on and to it all, it's really pretty great to find something that expansive, especially that I like, games are the same way for me.

TV shows, movies, mini-series all have things that get really long and involved.

I don't think I'd ever limit how much creativity one project can withstand.

more on this topic later, I am in the middle of making food and had a little break!
Posted October 28, 2015
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Falci: The point I want to make is that walkthroughs help me enjoy RPGs much more, but I think I’m a bit tired of having to keep alt+tabing into them constantly and following them through.
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mrkgnao: Specifically about alt-tabbing, you might want to consider getting a cheap tablet. Then you can read the walkthrough on the tablet while playing on the PC. Just an idea.
You don't even need a tablet. Any Android phone is okay as well.

Anyways, when I play an RPG, I tent to play the first run without me knowing looking up a walkthrough and seeing for myself how the party and the items progress. If I get to another run of the game, then I may feel like looking up a walkthrough to enjoy scenarios I didn't see before, get items that are slightly more powerful than the last setup, discover more optimal party builds, etc. Despite that, I only take what I feel like taking with me; last time I beat FF6, I didn't care how to beat the bosses or whatever. I only cared about the items. The reason I might end up using a walkthrough now is to achieve a full Bestiary on FFV Android.

So I don't use them in the first run where everything is up to me, but then I'd use them in the second run, and even then it depends.
Posted October 28, 2015
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OldFatGuy: The "problem" isn't walkthroughs. The "problem" is that RPG's, in general, have just gotten "too damn big."
"just gotten"? Back in the days, it took me 2 years to finish Ultima3 (OK, including 1.5 year it took me to understand how you change level ^^). And let's not talk about Morrowind and Daggerfall. Or the looooong grind in many old JRPGs. RPGs have always been one of the longer game type. I think the only games that are bigger are the civ-like 4X and grand strategy games.

But you're right, they tend to be too long. They often pad the experience with side quests ("before you save the world, please find my car keys, mmkay?"), pointless exploration (*Smash* "Yeah, another 3 coppers in that barrel, let's check the next house!"), grinding ("yeah, 15 XP! I just need to kill another 157 goblins to unlock the ability I need to beat the boss"), which can be cool, but often dilute the experience.

They used to be my favorite games, but now, I have real trouble to get to the end of a RPG. I simply lose interest before. Never finished Skyrim, nor Baldur's Gate 2, nor NWN 2, nor New Vegas, and there's a fair chance I'll never finish the 2 RPGs I'm currently playing, Witcher 2 and Pillars of Eternity. And yet, I loved those games. It's just that after some time, I made a pause because of a difficult choice or a difficulty spike, and never returned back to them. Whereas shorter, more focused RPGs (like the Shadowrun games) are finished.

That's the reason why "open world with hundreds hours of entertainment" tends to be something that will prevent me to buy a game nowadays. They used to be my favourite, but now, it's just a clear sign I'll never see the ending.
Posted October 28, 2015
Well, I don't play jRPGs so can't speak on that. Most RPGs I played were years ago, and yes, you played through them without help much like Tarnicus' said. I mean I have been through BG several times (3-4 solo, 1-2 party from memory, maybe more). Using a wlakthrough just sounds like your too lazy to actually play the game yourself, i.e. th epoint of all the sidequests, and places to explore is to flesh the game out, make it feel like you have discovered something. If you just follow a walkthrough, you may as well watch someone else play the game on Ulube.

And to be fair, I do occasionally check things if I cant work it out, but in general I play the game myself.
Posted October 28, 2015
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valdaintheking: I call bullshit. Its almost impossible to beat a rpg without at least consulting hintbook a bit. Games like wizardry, You cannot get past without major stuff that helps. The jrpgs are also mandatory to get past at least some of it with guide. I would be surprised if anyone got past ANY rpg with at least a bit of help. Or they could be japanese, heh.
Well, I'm not Japanese, and I finished the following without ever consulting a walkthrough (or guide) or asked for help or clues.

Betrayal at Krondor
Soulbringer
Planescape Torment
Fallout
Fallout 3 (never did finish 2)
Fallout New Vegas
Gothic 1
Gothic 2
I'm sure I'm missing some but do want to mention
Divine Divinity - I've played all the way through to the end boss THREE TIMES and simply can NOT beat that bitch.
Plus a couple or three of them in 1980's whose titles I forget.

[ADDED: Just remembered two more that I finished, Eschalon 1 and 2. I know there are many others because I've finished lots of games (including RPG's) and have never once used walkthroughs or guides.]

However, I've never finished a single Elder Scrolls game (at least I don't think ever finished Daggerfall, but part of my old brain insists I did).

Morrowind and Skryim, jeebus, I must have waaaaaay over 1000 hours into them combined and have never finished them, but it's not due to not having clues, I never use walk throughs (or guides), it's because they're just too damned long for me to maintain interest. For example, my first attempt at Skyrim, I played 327 hours (according to the save file) and never got close to the ending. But lost interest, switched to another game, and then when I decided to give it a go again, reloaded the game, but had forgotten EVERYTHING, wasn't sure of what I was doing (as far as role playing my character) and so started over. I am now at 267 hours in this play through, and am I fear, once again nearing my end of interest, and once again am nowhere close to being done.

It's not that they're too hard and require help, it's just that they're too damned big. Now don't get me wrong, it is disappointing that I may never finish those two games. But at the same time, they've provided me with over 1000 hours of joy and fun and so I can't say they're disappointments either. I love both of them, they are, IMO, the most immersive RPG's I've ever played (note I didn't say best). I get lost in them for hours and that's why I play computer games. I've been disabled since Nov 24, 1999 (yes I remember the exact day, it's easy because my birthday is Nov 25 and Nov 25 1999 was the worst day of my life) and getting lost in them is what keeps me sane (well, ok, maybe not quite as insane? lol).

To the topic of walkthroughs and guides, as I said I've never been a fan, yet my son insisted on them for ANY game he played. I used to argue with him (stupidly, until I realized this was yet another example of personal preference, or chocolate versus vanilla ice cream) and tell him if I wanted to read a story, I'll read it. If I want to play a story, I'll play it. Just never understood the point of reading a guide and then playing the game, but again, personal preference.
Post edited October 29, 2015 by OldFatGuy
Posted October 28, 2015
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OldFatGuy: ...snip
For example, my first attempt at Skyrim, I played 327 hours (according to the save file) and never got close to the ending. But lost interest, switched to another game, and then when I decided to give it a go again, reloaded the game, but had forgotten EVERYTHING, wasn't sure of what I was doing (as far as role playing my character) and so started over. I am now at 267 hours in this play through, and am I fear, once again nearing my end of interest, and once again am nowhere close to being done.
...snip
are you sure you don't mean minutes rather than hours, I mean the main Quest of Oblivion/Skyrim lasts about the time it takes to make a cup of tea, that's why they provide the modding tools.
Posted October 28, 2015
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nightcraw1er.488: are you sure you don't mean minutes rather than hours, I mean the main Quest of Oblivion/Skyrim lasts about the time it takes to make a cup of tea, that's why they provide the modding tools.
I don't know if you're making a joke or are serious, but I'll play. Yes, it's hours.
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General discussionOn RPGs and Walkthroughs(50 posts)(50 posts)
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